Fear during psychedelic trips.

[Kevin]

Was looking for some ideas from y’all. I generally experience lots of fear during trips. Especially 5meodmt. During 5meo trips lately it’s intense terror. It wasn’t always like that though. I had at least 2 trips on 5meo that were ecstatic and joyful. But mainly during milder trips with other psychedelics I experience varying degrees of fear. Sometimes there will be intense fear surrounding thoughts about losing control. Those part of trips where shit starts to not make sense. I feel like this is a massive clue but I can’t figure it out. Sometimes if the fear isn’t too intense I can remain calm and ride it like a wave and eventually it diminishes.

 

Does anyone else experience this? Any idea what it might mean?

[Phil]

First you vibrationally be the world-sphere and lens-sphere. When you be the spheres it seems like there is ‘experience’ of ‘finite’ & ‘conditions’… and you forget your own formless infinitude & true eternal unconditional nature. Then it seems like you’re a dude on a planet… since “that’s” what you’re vibrationally being, by being the spheres.

 

Although you forget, overlook really, your infinitude & nature… you never actually stop being infinite & unconditional.

As infinite intelligence being the lens-sphere, you appear as & experience yourself as “thoughts”. 

As unconditional you feel the alignment & discord between the thoughts and your(infinite)self.

 

Then “dude on earth” “takes a psychedelic”, all of which is actually infinite unconditional you. (There are not actually separate finite things like dudes, planets & psychedelics, just your infinite perfection being).

 

The effect of a psychedelic is de-vibration… or de-focusing, or zooming out. Thoughts, or the activity of or experience of thoughts is an amply zoomed in experience. Amply zoomed in, you don’t notice or realize you’re being ‘the thoughts’ (be being the lens-sphere), and you innocently believe the “thoughts”.

 

Then there seems to be a ‘thinker’, and it seems like the ‘thinker’ is a finite entity which ‘thinks’ and is ‘in control’ and ‘decides’ & ‘chooses’. But you’re what’s being, what’s vibrating, being the spheres, being the thoughts. There is no thinker, control or choices. There are only the thoughts that there are these ‘finite things’ or ‘forms’… thoughts which are believed. 

 

When a certain point in the de-vibrating “psychedelic experience” occurs… because it is believed there is a thinker in control & choosing, it seems like there is a finite separate self or ‘ego’ which is going to lose control and or die. 

 

With these ‘thoughts’ believed, another belief is added to “explain” why these thoughts, beliefs, feel so ‘off’ - and that belief is that there is “fear”.  The feeling which guides is you, and the being which labels a “second thing” (fear) is also you. The very “fear” referred to, is actually unconditional infinite you, not “fear” at all, in any way whatsoever. 

 

 

Actionables…

 

You could just take more & more psychedelics, and that’ll ‘work’, but the same un-inspected thoughts, beliefs & emotional guidance inevitably continue to arise. Namely because of the misunderstanding of fear & the implied duality of believing fear exists. (No beliefs in a finite separate self = no fear.) As these thoughts & beliefs arise, as & as if through the lens-sphere, it is then believed there was, in a non-existent past, a “glimpse”. This is from the non-existent perspective of a non-existent separate self (all beliefs) - all of which are in actuality a vibrational appearance of you. 

 

You could also inspect the thoughts & beliefs, and express the emotions / empty the lens-sphere, and body as it were, while being the dude on a planet. Then, trips, and really even just the notion of becomes hysterical. 

 

You could meditate daily, thus slowing down the thoughts making it easier to inspect thoughts & beliefs, thus dispelling the beliefs… ultimately to the point it is noticed there is no “meditator”. 

 

This dude on a planet apparently did all of the above and no longer exists, and truly never did in the first place, and is simply as ‘he’ always is, alone, peaceful blissful happiness, with much joy & laughter, and no thing to know. 

[Kevin]

20 hours ago, Phil said:

First you vibrationally be the world-sphere and lens-sphere. When you be the spheres it seems like there is ‘experience’ of ‘finite’ & ‘conditions’… and you forget your own formless infinitude & true eternal unconditional nature. Then it seems like you’re a dude on a planet… since “that’s” what you’re vibrationally being, by being the spheres.

 

Although you forget, overlook really, your infinitude & nature… you never actually stop being infinite & unconditional.

As infinite intelligence being the lens-sphere, you appear as & experience yourself as “thoughts”. 

As unconditional you feel the alignment & discord between the thoughts and your(infinite)self.

 

Then “dude on earth” “takes a psychedelic”, all of which is actually infinite unconditional you. (There are not actually separate finite things like dudes, planets & psychedelics, just your infinite perfection being).

 

The effect of a psychedelic is de-vibration… or de-focusing, or zooming out. Thoughts, or the activity of or experience of thoughts is an amply zoomed in experience. Amply zoomed in, you don’t notice or realize you’re being ‘the thoughts’ (be being the lens-sphere), and you innocently believe the “thoughts”.

 

Then there seems to be a ‘thinker’, and it seems like the ‘thinker’ is a finite entity which ‘thinks’ and is ‘in control’ and ‘decides’ & ‘chooses’. But you’re what’s being, what’s vibrating, being the spheres, being the thoughts. There is no thinker, control or choices. There are only the thoughts that there are these ‘finite things’ or ‘forms’… thoughts which are believed. 

 

When a certain point in the de-vibrating “psychedelic experience” occurs… because it is believed there is a thinker in control & choosing, it seems like there is a finite separate self or ‘ego’ which is going to lose control and or die. 

 

With these ‘thoughts’ believed, another belief is added to “explain” why these thoughts, beliefs, feel so ‘off’ - and that belief is that there is “fear”.  The feeling which guides is you, and the being which labels a “second thing” (fear) is also you. The very “fear” referred to, is actually unconditional infinite you, not “fear” at all, in any way whatsoever. 

 

Beautifully put! When I’m tripping it’s as if discordant stories and narratives automatically get seen through. When sober though it seems much more difficult.

20 hours ago, Phil said:

 

Actionables…

 

You could just take more & more psychedelics, and that’ll ‘work’, but the same un-inspected thoughts, beliefs & emotional guidance inevitably continue to arise. Namely because of the misunderstanding of fear & the implied duality of believing fear exists. (No beliefs in a finite separate self = no fear.) As these thoughts & beliefs arise, as & as if through the lens-sphere, it is then believed there was, in a non-existent past, a “glimpse”. This is from the non-existent perspective of a non-existent separate self (all beliefs) - all of which are in actuality a vibrational appearance of you. 

 

I’ve been micro-dosing a lot lately which has been helping. I think I’ll keep doing that with occasional big trips.

20 hours ago, Phil said:

You could also inspect the thoughts & beliefs, and express the emotions / empty the lens-sphere, and body as it were, while being the dude on a planet. Then, trips, and really even just the notion of becomes hysterical. 

 

You could meditate daily, thus slowing down the thoughts making it easier to inspect thoughts & beliefs, thus dispelling the beliefs… ultimately to the point it is noticed there is no “meditator”. 

 

This dude on a planet apparently did all of the above and no longer exists, and truly never did in the first place, and is simply as ‘he’ always is, alone, peaceful blissful happiness, with much joy & laughter, and no thing to know. 

Beautiful. I guess the only think to do is meditate and inspect until I don’t feel that I need to.

[James123]

On 12/7/2022 at 9:12 AM, Kevin said:

But mainly during milder trips with other psychedelics I experience varying degrees of fear. Sometimes there will be intense fear surrounding thoughts about losing control. Those part of trips where shit starts to not make sense. I feel like this is a massive clue but I can’t figure it out. Sometimes if the fear isn’t too intense I can remain calm and ride it like a wave and eventually it diminishes.

Let me tell you the key, fuck the I, let it go , let lose control till from losing control joy and peace comes.

 

On 12/7/2022 at 9:12 AM, Kevin said:

Does anyone else experience this? Any idea what it might mean?

This is the holding the "identification", which is ego, which is being on control to survive or survival mechanism. 

 

FUCK THE I.

[Kevin]

7 hours ago, James123 said:

Let me tell you the key, fuck the I, let it go , let lose control till from losing control joy and peace comes.

 

This is the holding the "identification", which is ego, which is being on control to survive or survival mechanism. 

 

FUCK THE I.

Definitely. Makes sense. Feels like a process for me.

[James123]

8 hours ago, Kevin said:

Definitely. Makes sense. Feels like a process for me.

Yes it is a process. Realization, knowing the enemy, fighting with enemy, wining the enemy and there is no more enemy (nor you).  Lastly, there was never one who was fighting, it is the always is. Never moved, began, fight or born.

[Mandy]

My experience of fear was "why I can't do what I really want to do." When I started doing more of what I really wanted to do, there was more a sense of wonder.

 

If you're having issues with trips, try working with it sober more. There are always moments that come up that feel charged. You likely are taking psychedelics for that charge, but you can catch the waves spontaneously if you look for them.

 

Example, I was raised Christian, told Halloween was evil, not allowed to trick or treat and at some point really began to agree and hate the season as well as Fall in general. I did not find anything funny about scaring people, about plastic severed body parts, or celebrating or making light of  horrors, or excessive candy, or any of it. It lasted and was cemented into adulthood made worse by the belief that I had SAD that set in at the time as well. At some point I even started to dislike fall foliage (in New England even 😐). Then it started to dissolve, little by little as I started to realize partly through the influence of a friend who ADORED Halloween how creative the holiday is and everything around it. Then I realized it's actually therapeutic. It's the most therapeutic holiday for dealing with fear. It's actually brilliant. What used to be a season I detested that was full of depression and fear and disgust and judgement of those enjoying it is now a time of utter magic and connection. 

 

A little over a year ago on Halloween night it was windy and stormy and I was feeling all the feels, and I went outside and felt the wind and in pure imagination that the spirit veil really is the thinnest of Hallow's Eve, I asked and tuned in with everyone who went before in this old and wonderfully creepy neighborhood in which I live and what flashed before my mind was this horrible feeling and memory of a death associated with the season that had not been mine, had not been anyone I knew, but that was covered in the local news. It was a teenage girl who was killed in a hayride accident that had happened years prior. And I saw that my feeling absolutely horrible about it had always been my emotional guidance, my own imaginations and interpretations and that I knew nothing about it whatsoever but was filling in all the gaps with imagined horrors because others around me were doing the same. 

 

A fantastically creative holiday indeed. 

 

It's all just the light within. 

 

[nurthur11]

8 hours ago, Mandy said:

Example, I was raised Christian, told Halloween was evil, not allowed to trick or treat and at some point really began to agree and hate the season as well as Fall in general. I did not find anything funny about scaring people, about plastic severed body parts, or celebrating or making light of  horrors, or excessive candy, or any of it. It lasted and was cemented into adulthood made worse by the belief that I had SAD that set in at the time as well. At some point I even started to dislike fall foliage (in New England even 😐). Then it started to dissolve, little by little as I started to realize partly through the influence of a friend who ADORED Halloween how creative the holiday is and everything around it. Then I realized it's actually therapeutic. It's the most therapeutic holiday for dealing with fear. It's actually brilliant. What used to be a season I detested that was full of depression and fear and disgust and judgement of those enjoying it is now a time of utter magic and connection. 

Going out and getting scared is okay. Scaring yourself to get rid of fear is cheating and it will not work.

[Mandy]

@nurthur11 Good point. It's more about curiosity around fear, and seeing it for the charge that it has than trying to go vanquish it and going all Don Quixote on those giants.

[Kevin]

On 12/9/2022 at 8:39 AM, Mandy said:

My experience of fear was "why I can't do what I really want to do." When I started doing more of what I really wanted to do, there was more a sense of wonder.

 

If you're having issues with trips, try working with it sober more. There are always moments that come up that feel charged. You likely are taking psychedelics for that charge, but you can catch the waves spontaneously if you look for them.

 

Example, I was raised Christian, told Halloween was evil, not allowed to trick or treat and at some point really began to agree and hate the season as well as Fall in general. I did not find anything funny about scaring people, about plastic severed body parts, or celebrating or making light of  horrors, or excessive candy, or any of it. It lasted and was cemented into adulthood made worse by the belief that I had SAD that set in at the time as well. At some point I even started to dislike fall foliage (in New England even 😐). Then it started to dissolve, little by little as I started to realize partly through the influence of a friend who ADORED Halloween how creative the holiday is and everything around it. Then I realized it's actually therapeutic. It's the most therapeutic holiday for dealing with fear. It's actually brilliant. What used to be a season I detested that was full of depression and fear and disgust and judgement of those enjoying it is now a time of utter magic and connection. 

 

A little over a year ago on Halloween night it was windy and stormy and I was feeling all the feels, and I went outside and felt the wind and in pure imagination that the spirit veil really is the thinnest of Hallow's Eve, I asked and tuned in with everyone who went before in this old and wonderfully creepy neighborhood in which I live and what flashed before my mind was this horrible feeling and memory of a death associated with the season that had not been mine, had not been anyone I knew, but that was covered in the local news. It was a teenage girl who was killed in a hayride accident that had happened years prior. And I saw that my feeling absolutely horrible about it had always been my emotional guidance, my own imaginations and interpretations and that I knew nothing about it whatsoever but was filling in all the gaps with imagined horrors because others around me were doing the same. 

 

A fantastically creative holiday indeed. 

 

It's all just the light within. 

 

Thank you. This resonates. Definitely more of the listening to the guidance for me.