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Hello "everyone". Would love to get your insights on this. "I've" been contemplating for sometime about Deep sleep and it's nature. From direct experience, it seems like there is no direct experience of deep sleep. Yet, if "I" want to think about it as a thought comes up. The thought has a mental imagery of an empty black void when "thinking" of  deep sleep. Certainly, the thought of "I slept deeply" is not actually about Deep sleep or anything. It's a thought. Yet, why does the thought want to "believe" of deep sleep. Also, if deep sleep does not exist from direct experience, what am I even talking about? Does deep sleep have any similarity to death?

Also what do people mean they are "aware" during deep sleep ? If there is nothing there, what are these "people" referring to?

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2 hours ago, Newbie dude said:

Hello "everyone". Would love to get your insights on this. "I've" been contemplating for sometime about Deep sleep and it's nature. From direct experience, it seems like there is no direct experience of deep sleep. Yet, if "I" want to think about it as a thought comes up. The thought has a mental imagery of an empty black void when "thinking" of  deep sleep. Certainly, the thought of "I slept deeply" is not actually about Deep sleep or anything. It's a thought. Yet, why does the thought want to "believe" of deep sleep. Also, if deep sleep does not exist from direct experience, what am I even talking about? Does deep sleep have any similarity to death?

Also what do people mean they are "aware" during deep sleep ? If there is nothing there, what are these "people" referring to?

 

"From direct experience, it seems like there is no direct experience of deep sleep."

It seems this way. TIbetan Dream Yoga contend that there can be awareness of deep sleep though this is pretty advanced. Supposedly some lamas are able to remain conscious even in deep sleep. More doable is lucid dreaming which is becoming aware in a dream that it is a dream. 

 

"Certainly, the thought of "I slept deeply" is not actually about Deep sleep or anything."

Maybe. Maybe not. I'm not so sure. See the lama abilities to be aware during deep sleep above. Perhaps one could be aware, to some extent, of being aware of being in deep sleep. 

 

"Also what do people mean they are "aware" during deep sleep ? If there is nothing there, what are these "people" referring to?"

I"m not sure what they're aware of. Who are they, what are they saying? Advaita Vedanta does not say there's "nothing" there during deep sleep. Here's a quote I found on Adaita Vedanta deep sleep, deep sleep state is a similar condition of seamless non-apprehension of thoughts

We also have to define what might we mean by "nothing". Even in deep sleep, a cat may hear a sound of a can opener and awaken so there's at least a potential for awareness there. People claim to be able to wake up at a certain time, so there's evidently an ability for an internal clock. 

It was only a few decades ago they were able to prove lucid dreaming was a real thing. I think deep sleep is probably even more a mystery. 

"Does deep sleep have any similarity to death?"

Good question. What's death like? 

 

 

“If trees could scream, would we be so cavalier about cutting them down? We might, if they screamed all the time, for no good reason.” ― The Buddha

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6 minutes ago, Zeroguy said:

Death.

You become formless Infinite Love.

 



Have you read any of the Tibetan view of the Bardo realm? Tibetan book of the dead? They say there's a connection between the dream world and death. They advocate using dreams in preparation for death. That's one of the basis for Dream Yoga. Andrew Holocek has a good book on Dream Yoga if you're so inclined. I've practiced Dream Yoga and it's pretty cool. When I went lucid recently and saw a dead relative in my dream, I asked her, "What happens after death?" I wanted to know because there's sparse details on what happens. No sages and prophets go into details. I'd just like an example of a typical day for a dead person. I see mediums on television and grannie is always watching over loved ones. This seems to me to be pretty boring. If it was me, and I could, I'd rather explore the universe than watching my loved ones in their mundane lives. Also it seems a bit invasive. The medium message is often a cliched, "grannie loves you, don't grieve, she's proud of you" or some such. But why doesn't Grannie tell about what's going on for her? Is she Grannie up there or her idealized 20 year old version. Is she dating anyone? Is she playing beach volleyball up there or bingo? 

The answer I got in my dream, was look up "Elysian Fields". I didn't know the word Elysian and had to ask how to spell it. After I woke up, I looked Elysia on wikipedia and saw it was the heaven for pagans and virtuos heroes. There's a lot of nice poetry regarding Elysia. Which was nice. I think sometimes when it comes to the unborn and undying and absolute, a good way to approach that can go beyond words because words fail, is by using art. 

This all was an interesting experience for me. Whether the answer came from beyond or from some bit of my unconscious, it still felt pretty cool. I have a Buddhist background and so I think I'd tend to invent a Buddhist afterlife so this Elysia heaven which I had to ask how to spell and did not know what it was until I looked it up in Wikipedia -- was a nice touch. It also sufficed for me as an answer.  

“If trees could scream, would we be so cavalier about cutting them down? We might, if they screamed all the time, for no good reason.” ― The Buddha

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On 3/22/2022 at 1:20 PM, Newbie dude said:

why does the thought want to "believe" of deep sleep.

One framing… a belief is a thought repeatedly given attention, vs something which believes. 

 

On 3/22/2022 at 1:20 PM, Newbie dude said:

Also, if deep sleep does not exist from direct experience, what am I even talking about?

No thing. Your infinitude. 

On 3/22/2022 at 1:20 PM, Newbie dude said:

Does deep sleep have any similarity to death?

Exactly the same.  

On 3/22/2022 at 1:20 PM, Newbie dude said:

Also what do people mean they are "aware" during deep sleep ? If there is nothing there, what are these "people" referring to?

Awareness is they, vs they are aware. Awareness doesn’t need, or have, something to be aware of. 

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2 hours ago, BlendingInfinite said:

Rupert Spira said deep sleep is awareness without content. But I didn't got the insight.

"I" is content.  "Got" assumes content can posses more content. 

You are content (meaning peaceful, fulfilled) in deep sleep exactly because there is no content (form/duality/separation). Funny how we seem to be able to get one content/content mixed up with the other sometimes. 

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On 3/22/2022 at 1:20 PM, Newbie dude said:

I've" been contemplating for sometime about Deep sleep and it's nature.

Hi, Welcome to the forum 😊.

 

I'll give you my take and its pretty similar to others. I'll just say it in my way.

 

Deep sleep is simply when the mind and body are in an inactive state and therefore there is "only" what we are, awareness, in its purest form there.

 

On 3/22/2022 at 1:20 PM, Newbie dude said:

The thought has a mental imagery of an empty black void when "thinking" of  deep sleep

 

Yes, of course, the mind wakes up and becomes active, then wants to "claim" that "it" slept well and also has thoughts about how "it" thinks deep sleep is, but truly it only knows that it doesn't know, because there was no experience, since it was inactive. 

 

On 3/22/2022 at 1:20 PM, Newbie dude said:

Also, if deep sleep does not exist from direct experience, what am I even talking about?

 

Again, you're talking about when the mind was inactive (deep sleep) and has missing time, so it's trying to fill in the gaps by pretending it knows.

 

On 3/22/2022 at 1:20 PM, Newbie dude said:

Does deep sleep have any similarity to death?

 

Someone asked a master that question and the master said, "I'm a master. I'm not a dead master, ask me when I'm dead and I'll tell you". 😂

 

But, truly, there are many faiths, schools of thought, philosophies and religions that have all different thoughts about it and now I take the stand that I have my suspicions of certain things, but I'm not positive of any. Your best bet is to come to your own conclusions, instead of believing someone else's. 

 

On 3/22/2022 at 1:20 PM, Newbie dude said:

Also what do people mean they are "aware" during deep sleep ? If there is nothing there, what are these "people" referring to?

 

Oh, I could say something clever, like awareness is aware of itself and maybe some can say they experience that with sincerity, but I've yet to come across someone who claims this, so that I can ask them how this is registered in the mind for them to speak about it if the mind was inactive.

 

The closest thing I can think of would be some kind of samadhi where the mind is awake, but not active. If that makes sense.

 

 

 

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