nuwu Posted October 15, 2022 Share Posted October 15, 2022 (edited) cross-posting from the other forum Quote seems actualized.org's videos are slowly moving away from buddhism, or at least find themselves in a somewhat confusing status. i wish @Leo Gura could share some clarifications about these, since the views are growingly incompatible with traditional spiritual models. both philosophies are interesting in their own way, such that silencing or discrediting opposite narratives is superfluous. summary of discord (from what i can tell): - in buddhism, all dualities necessarily cancel out into nothingness/oneness. our perspectives are conceived from subconscious vibrations who melt into nonduality with meditation/stillness. in leo's recent videos, the understandings of awareness are unclear, other than absolute infinity implies all impossible and absurd states of awareness, potentially even blends of seemingly incompatible experiences (non-duality + duality?), or subinfinities merging together, or something i dont even know - arguments pointing at biases are useless, since both buddhism and leo are sustained by powerful egos. former being more cultural and artistic, while latter being a classical body-mind perspective - oneness is in our heart. nothing should be required in order to (un)reach the absolute, like gravity. countless perspectives are unable to obtain sufficiently powerful psychedelics to "awaken". in contrast, meditation is universal. god can not prevent itself from being itself. but then, what does it mean to "do nothing"? if one is meditating, isnt she already imagining herself not taking psychedelics? its mitigated - death is imaginary, which may contradict the assumption one must be entitled to attain parinirvana after physical death, even with a glimpse of nonduality. why is such delay required, if bodily functions are illusions? buddhism traditionally shut down all discussions about the "experience" of parinirvana, yet it could be very well be dreams within sub-infinities. - meditation with calcified pineal glands is, or seem to be less effective due to lower andogenous dmt. so what is the difference between meditation and some ever lasting trips? buddha claims ego's attachments are the source of suffering, but why would such attachments matter when they are themselves imaginary? counter-argument is that if it meditation works for (you), doesnt it mean it works for everyone since (your perspective) is the only one that is provably actual? were you ever aware of a state where meditation doesn't work? - maybe leo is susceptible to impressive state of awareness and experiences of large infinities, which can be confused with the absolute if you trip hard enough. shouldnt the absolute be transcendental to states and degree of awareness? no sized infinities may ever compare to the absolute. such as it doesnt matter how large numbers can grow, they will never reach infinity unless going back to nil. one could dream being the "god" of infinite civilizations, yet it still woudnt be the absolute. then at the same time, how do we know what it takes to reach the absolute? all awakenings could be the delusion of self-impressionable entities, as far as we know. - there are anecdotal evidences from that one taiwanese youtuber who experienced both awawakening with meditation and 5-meo-dmt, and reportedly shared an abyssal difference in favor of former. status of leo's meditation practices are unknown. unclear why he doesnt try serious attempts, since it would make communications between the two schools of thoughts easier. - if everything is a single self-loving entity, why would rejection of anything be ever necessary to obtain truth? this is assuming there is such thing as an "ego" out there who has any level of sovereignty on the matter, but there is no such thing. there would be only one ego, that is yours. n-not sure how much of a foolish rant this is. i find the situation somewhat confusing. what are your thoughts on the matter? i have no idea or attachment about what consciousness truly is, i just want to be comfy and happy content in question: - infinity of gods - mouse-leo - leo's posting style which seems less inclusive to traditional buddhism, reinforcing the observation his views are incompatible Edited October 15, 2022 by nuwu Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blessed2 Posted October 17, 2022 Share Posted October 17, 2022 59 minutes ago, Devin said: it's coping Isn't like one of the most fundamental points of buddhism to acknowledge that "yes, there is suffering" ? 😄 Kinda seems to me that buddhism is the opposite of coping. There must be an effortless way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blessed2 Posted October 17, 2022 Share Posted October 17, 2022 1 minute ago, Devin said: Yes that's their primary shtick to me, "ending suffering". It's coping with beliefs. What would be not coping? There must be an effortless way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blessed2 Posted October 17, 2022 Share Posted October 17, 2022 6 minutes ago, Devin said: Living by " intuition"/"heart"/"soul"/"following God", pick your poetic poison What does that mean? There must be an effortless way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blessed2 Posted October 17, 2022 Share Posted October 17, 2022 Not coping is kinda the first step of the method called buddhism though. There must be an effortless way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blessed2 Posted October 17, 2022 Share Posted October 17, 2022 21 minutes ago, Devin said: Not coping in terms of admitting suffering? I didn't get far into buddhism, I attended teaching at a temple but I'm no expert. They all seem to focus on ending suffering though, which is clearly a distraction, clearly coping (in regards to having beliefs) When acknowledging suffering, you see it for what it is (total nonsense, confusion, literally just like a mistake). The next step, which everyone takes, is to quit the bullshit. No-one in their right mind would acknowledge suffering and then not end it. Because of the very nature of the suffering. Though yeah, buddhist temples and books etc. can be used as a coping method too. I'd say that happens before suffering is fully acknowledged. There must be an effortless way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Posted October 17, 2022 Share Posted October 17, 2022 5 hours ago, Devin said: Buddhism is just another religion, rituals, traditions, they just focus on ending suffering, which is not awakening, it's coping. “Buddhism is a path of practice and spiritual development leading to Insight into the true nature of reality… a path which ultimately culminates in Enlightenment or Buddhahood.” https://thebuddhistcentre.com/buddhism YouTube Website Sessions Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blessed2 Posted October 17, 2022 Share Posted October 17, 2022 3 hours ago, Devin said: So you think the Buddhists end suffering? Yes. There must be an effortless way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blessed2 Posted October 17, 2022 Share Posted October 17, 2022 1 minute ago, Devin said: That's impossible I think that's just reasonable. Though of course here there are no buddhists or any persons ending their suffering anymore. Suffering is like a mistake, a mis-perception. And it can be corrected. There must be an effortless way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blessed2 Posted October 17, 2022 Share Posted October 17, 2022 12 minutes ago, Devin said: @Phil @Blessed2 what I see from Buddhism is; meditate, and remove suffering from the world. That's a distraction definitely not enlightenment/awakening/realizing. They teach to remove suffering from the world, that right there is disqualification. "Suffering" in buddhist sense is synonymous with "ignorance" or "mis-perception". Literally the same. There must be an effortless way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blessed2 Posted October 17, 2022 Share Posted October 17, 2022 14 minutes ago, Devin said: suffering/ignorance/mis-perception isn't bad, suffering/ignorance/mis-perception is life Then what's the problem with coping? 😂 There must be an effortless way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Posted October 17, 2022 Share Posted October 17, 2022 2 hours ago, Devin said: @Phil @Blessed2 what I see from Buddhism is; meditate, and remove suffering from the world. That's a distraction definitely not enlightenment/awakening/realizing. They teach to remove suffering from the world, that right there is disqualification. Just to be clear, I’m not Buddhist nor am I purporting to be a teacher, nor am I teaching Buddhism. I’m also not against Buddhism in any way, and I can’t possibly recommend daily meditation enough. 🙂 This is very, very a tricky thing to grasp… precisely because of what Buddhism calls - The Ignorance. Suffering = the “separate self”. The “separate self” = the belief that there are separate selves, and that you are a separate self. The “separate self” is what suffering is. The “separate self” is nothing more than a belief. Suffering is nothing more than the belief in, separate selves. This belief is what conditioning is. That there is suffering in the world - is what ‘The Ignorance’ is. That there are separate selves in a world - is what ‘The Ignorance’ is. The belief that there is suffering, and that suffering is in a world, is what suffering is. There is no such thing as a separate self. It’s a belief, which is the activity of thought. This is why meditation is recommended. When the activity of thought meditatively ceases, the Truth IS, as in, only The Truth remains. This is why Buddhism refers to this as the cessation of suffering. It’s the permanent so to speak, cessation of the activity of thought. Therein - there is enlightenment - and yet - there are not separate selves which become enlightened. Enlightenment = that there aren’t, separate selves. Everything - as in all which is added to this - without exception - is conceptualization, essentially - thoughts - pointings, or what have you. There are also “glimpses”, which are experiential, such as with using psychedelics, and this is not cessation. Psychedelics bypass the meditation, inspection of beliefs, expression & emptying which are ‘the path’, or, are ‘along the way’ to cessation. This is why you sometimes here awakening pluralized as ‘my awakenings’, and why ‘ego’ claims to be ‘more or most awake’, by identifying with experience(s) and still believing thoughts about levels & states of consciousness, degrading meditation, inspection of beliefs, expression & emptying. This is actually aversion of the ‘ego’ (the ‘separate self’ of believing thoughts) to The Truth, or, spiritual mis-leadership. The activity of thought is what is and is all that is obscuring the Truth - that there are no separate selves, and there is no world. The terms no-self and enlightenment are saying the exact same thing two different ways. The terms come from different cultures. That’s all. It’s like how Christianity uses the word God and Islam uses the term Allah. Different terms, same infinite being. The ‘ego’, in believing thoughts, believes these terms point to different things, precisely because of thought attachment, which is because of skipping meditation, inspection of beliefs, expression & emptying. Dishonesty & manipulation do not ‘survive’ meditation, inspection of beliefs, expression & emptying. More so… the terms infinite being, consciousness, awakening, enlightenment, God, God-consciousness, self-realization, The Truth, etc, etc, etc… all are different terms which mean - point to - the very same infinite being. Saying you are God (infinite being), and there’s no you (separate selves) - are also two different ways of saying the exact same thing. 1 hour ago, Devin said: suffering/ignorance/mis-perception isn't bad, suffering/ignorance/mis-perception is life No!!! Bad is just judging / judgement. But life is not suffering/ignorance/misperception. That belief is ‘The Ignorance’!!! You’d really have to be at your most astute, and notice you’re casually saying “life” is ___________. If you’re completely honest, you don’t know what life actually is… you’re just parroting conjecture. (Innocently) ”Removing suffering from the world” = realizing suffering was never of the world in the first place. Suffering is not of the world right now. YouTube Website Sessions Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fopylo Posted October 18, 2022 Share Posted October 18, 2022 @Phil 27 minutes ago, Phil said: When the activity of thought meditatively ceases How can thought activity cease? Thoughts are all the time being Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fopylo Posted October 18, 2022 Share Posted October 18, 2022 30 minutes ago, Phil said: Psychedelics bypass the meditation, inspection of beliefs, expression & emptying which are ‘the path’, or, are ‘along the way’ to cessation. This is why you sometimes here awakening pluralized as ‘my awakenings’, and why ‘ego’ claims to be ‘more or most awake’, by identifying with experience(s) and still believing thoughts about levels & states of consciousness, degrading meditation, inspection of beliefs, expression & emptying. This is actually aversion of the ‘ego’ (the ‘separate self’ of believing thoughts) to The Truth, or, spiritual mis-leadership. Then why do people recommend the use of psychedelics? Are you against psychedelcis? Not that I plan on using it any time in the next few years, but I heard that it transformed people in incredible ways. I don't think they're lying though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fopylo Posted October 18, 2022 Share Posted October 18, 2022 16 minutes ago, Devin said: All the emotions come from beliefs, the ignorance, the suffering. Do you not want emotions? Belief, comes from By Life From my experience, emotion comes from thought, more like feeling/experiencing the thought. Belief is attachment to the thought and aversion from feeling. You could have thoughts that make you feel all kinds of ways, from guilt and anger to happiness and enthusiasm. You're able to feel them when you're not attached to them. Expression is when the feeling moves through you Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fopylo Posted October 18, 2022 Share Posted October 18, 2022 @Devin Which thought? I don't understand you Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Posted October 18, 2022 Share Posted October 18, 2022 10 hours ago, Devin said: "Experience"/ "Feeling", is life, all of it is life, suffering, awakening, ignorance, they're all concepts and beliefs, true, but all of that is life. Yes it's blissful to not believe thoughts, but Phil, how do you get the Fill😁. All the emotions come from beliefs, the ignorance, the suffering. Do you not want emotions? Belief, comes from Be Life or By Life, or Be Love, By Love Without beliefs or concepts, there is no life, I'm not saying no self realization is bad by the way, but you can know beliefs and concepts aren't real and still have fun with them. There's more than not separate selves realization, that's just one experience, but get your Fill Phil, it's infinity Without beliefs or concepts like life & separation, only the truth remains. 🤍 10 hours ago, fopylo said: @Phil How can thought activity cease? Thoughts are all the time being Meditatively. Buddhism calls it ‘cessation of suffering’. Time is the activity of thought which is the activity of (infinite) Being. 10 hours ago, fopylo said: Then why do people recommend the use of psychedelics? Are you against psychedelcis? You’d have to ask em, there can be endless reasons. No. 11 hours ago, Devin said: For me personally it's the staying in the same "state", the same "experience" to use the local language There aren’t separate selves in states or experience. 🥰 YouTube Website Sessions Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fopylo Posted October 18, 2022 Share Posted October 18, 2022 @Devin What I'm saying is that the less 'stuck' it feels (the less belief it feels, more like a moving thought) the more you feel it. Kinda makes sense, no? The more it moves, the more energy that flows, the more you feel it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fopylo Posted October 18, 2022 Share Posted October 18, 2022 (edited) @Phil 3 hours ago, Phil said: Meditatively. Buddhism calls it ‘cessation of suffering’. Time is the activity of thought which is the activity of (infinite) Being. You know what I meant though. Even when I was meditating, still images were appearing in my head (use my words as pointers if you plan on pointing stuff like 'in my head' to me). As we speak and type we entertain ideas and concepts. What is experience without thought? There's no such thing. Edited October 18, 2022 by fopylo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Posted October 18, 2022 Share Posted October 18, 2022 2 minutes ago, fopylo said: @Phil You know what I meant though. Even when I was meditating, still images were appearing in my head (use my words as pointers if you plan on pointing stuff like 'in my head' to me). As we speak and type we entertain ideas and concepts. What is experience without thought? There's no such thing. Likewise, words as pointings, experience without thought is perception & sensation. Maybe the ‘thing-ness’ of experience is via, thoughts. YouTube Website Sessions Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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