How do you go about meditation?

[fopylo]

I have just meditated, and like always... let's just say it doesn't feel like I'm doing it properly, as in getting the proper results of relaxation and feeling deeper. It is annoying.

While I meditate I tend to think many times during the session how to go about it, how to frame the meditation. This time I tried framing it more like "The breath is happening naturally (there is no me), and focus on that", and "Feel the naturalness in the breathing". But still, I feel discord after some time. It is so fucking annoying I swear to god. Fuck meditation. Sorry, it just never truly worked for me really, never really mastered this art.

I believe the focusing on breathing, on thoughts, on one thing, on sensation... I believe it is more like focusing on the naturalness of these. But then, who am I to say this? I am hardly handling those simple meditations which strongly reflect my overthinking tendencies. Who am I trying to be some smart ass guy thinking he knows all of that? I am simply a fool

[Loop]

Trying to achieve naturalness is a thought cycle, when it just involves noticing what is already so, any attempt is too far. 

 

Nothing to be sorry about! Let that annoying feeling be expressed, in a sense that is the point, for all that stuff that has been locked up to come up and out. You will reach a point where that annoying feeling starts to be experienced as something good, the untangling of thought-knots. 
 

When you take the time to sit and Do Nothing, Mindfulness, practice self-inquiry, or focus on Breathing. When you take the time to just Sit, giving yourself that space to sprawl out on the floor and just let out a big sigh. That is giving yourself space to exhail all the stuff you have been carrying around with you. For you to return to resting in Source, you first gotta let all the weight on your shoulders drop, can’t really rest holding onto past & future tense, it’ll just make you tense for what is to come or go. 

 

You gotta let all your non-sense work through itself, allowing yourself to be a fool is the way of the master. Wonder roams where it wants. Love so boundlessly you can’t even see.❤️🙏🏼 

[fopylo]

@Loop

1 hour ago, Loop said:

Nothing to be sorry about! Let that annoying feeling be expressed, in a sense that is the point, for all that stuff that has been locked up to come up and out. You will reach a point where that annoying feeling starts to be experienced as something good, the untangling of thought-knots. 

Oh yeah I know that already. Man, being frustrated and releasing it feels good. What doesn't feel good is during the meditation. After meditation I can get mad angry and frustrated at the meditation (about it), but then what's the damn point? Isn't it to feel better?

 

1 hour ago, Loop said:

When you take the time to sit and Do Nothing, Mindfulness, practice self-inquiry, or focus on Breathing. When you take the time to just Sit, giving yourself that space to sprawl out on the floor and just let out a big sigh. That is giving yourself space to exhail all the stuff you have been carrying around with you. For you to return to resting in Source, you first gotta let all the weight on your shoulders drop, can’t really rest holding onto past & future tense, it’ll just make you tense for what is to come or go. 

Being so overwhelmed and then unleashing a big sigh with frustration is different from being so overwhelmed and then deciding to do the practice of meditation. It feels more intentional, planed out, a bit formal, proper.

[Loop]

@fopylo

 

51 minutes ago, fopylo said:

Being so overwhelmed and then unleashing a big sigh with frustration is different from being so overwhelmed and then deciding to do the practice of meditation. It feels more intentional, planed out, a bit formal, proper

You don’t wanna decide to do meditation only when you feel you need it, it isn’t a tool to pick up when you think it is useful, it is the Way. In a sense the Meditation is your already constant awareness. Already be abiding with awareness, so when the overwhelment arises it is danced with and transformed, fully experienced for what it is.

 

The sigh I am talking about is the one that happens when you realize what the overwhelment actually is, no escape plan to the reactivity, just Feeling.
 

1 hour ago, fopylo said:

After meditation I can get mad angry and frustrated at the meditation (about it), but then what's the damn point? Isn't it to feel better?

 

There isn’t a point, it is just Feeling. Enjoying the waves, saying hello to all that comes and goes. What/ who would feel better? Total embracement of yourself as Feeling, no one needs to feel better as you are as you are. 

[Forza21]

i had the exact same problem, until i saw thoughts like:

 

"i'm frustrated on this meditation!"
"i just sit this many hours and nothing happens! This is stupid!"
"It's a waste of time!"
"I can't be present!"

"It's pointless!"

"I'm not sure if i'm doing this right..."
"I don't know what to do... "
"I'm angry!"

 

etc.

 

Those are just thoughts. 

if a thought appeared, "i'm the king of Scotland" would you believe it?

It's the same with "anger" thoughts, they just appear and seem to be about "you".  But they are not. It's just pure energy in consciousness, no different from leaf falling.

It's tricky because it's in first person. Thoughts already decided what you feel. It already told you that "you are angry right now." It's completely random, and what makes a difference is believing in it vs letting it go. 

It's also hard because, it seems like those thought-voice is in "your head". But is it really? Where are thoughts? try to find them. 

Also, it's good to inquire, and being ruthless honest:

"What are my expectation from this meditation?"
"What do i want to change after i mediate?"

Often,  "ego" gets angry, when meditation doesn't  meet those imaginary expectations.  It's a part of this work to let this go. 

And also...
If you are angry/confused right now - just let it be that way. Maybe it's a proper way to see the world right now, from these lenses? See, what it can teach you.  All emotions can be your guidance, if you let it.

Edited September 4, 2022 by Forza21

[fopylo]

@Loop

10 hours ago, Loop said:

You don’t wanna decide to do meditation only when you feel you need it, it isn’t a tool to pick up when you think it is useful, it is the Way. In a sense the Meditation is your already constant awareness.

It seems like you're saying to make it a habit, and to do it consistently even when I don't feel I need it, as though it is by default something to do for the sake of its fun.

Could you explain what you mean by "it is the Way"?

And if meditation is already my constant awareness, then why practice it?

10 hours ago, Loop said:

Already be abiding with awareness, so when the overwhelment arises it is danced with and transformed, fully experienced for what it is.

Seems like that is what meditation is really supposed to do, no? - to boost your feeling experience, to feel deeper, more clearly, more opening... I don't feel like that.

10 hours ago, Loop said:

What/ who would feel better? Total embracement of yourself as Feeling, no one needs to feel better as you are as you are.

During meditation I might embrace myself as feeling, maybe the flow, maybe the breath, maybe as nothing... but I always during the meditation forget many times and get caught up in beliefs that I am this person who is now having a hard time (forgetting what I'm supposed to focus on and who I really am and the point of this whole thing and all).

 

[fopylo]

@Forza21

3 hours ago, Forza21 said:

"i'm frustrated on this meditation!"
"i just sit this many hours and nothing happens! This is stupid!"
"It's a waste of time!"
"I can't be present!"

"It's pointless!"

"I'm not sure if i'm doing this right..."
"I don't know what to do... "
"I'm angry!"

Wow, yes.

3 hours ago, Forza21 said:

It's just pure energy in consciousness

This seems really damn interesting.... Could you elaborate on this topic of "energy in consciousness"? Sounds eye-opening.

3 hours ago, Forza21 said:

what makes a difference is believing in it vs letting it go.

Why do we sometimes decide to trap ourselves in believing, and why do we sometimes prefer letting go? I bet there is a pure reason for deciding to believe stuff.

4 hours ago, Forza21 said:

Where are thoughts? try to find them.

I don't know. I've encountered some people saying that thoughts don't even exist, which is also very interesting to hear.

4 hours ago, Forza21 said:

"What are my expectation from this meditation?"

My expectation is to become a master of my emotions, to feel more fluidly, to experience more clearly, unchanging inner peace (feeling), and dissolving the self to reach this nirvana childlike feeling.

4 hours ago, Forza21 said:

"What do i want to change after i mediate?"

Gonna be easier to live my dream, and experience the richness of experience while exploring life all around - which is truly a dream, and also to be super fulfilled from the life I'll lead.

 

[Loop]

2 minutes ago, fopylo said:

It seems like you're saying to make it a habit, and to do it consistently even when I don't feel I need it, as though it is by default something to do for the sake of its fun.

Could you explain what you mean by "it is the Way"?

And if meditation is already my constant awareness, then why practice it?

The way back to just being Yourself. 
The practice is to be with Awareness, not to look for answers, but to stay just stay, or drop back into what is always. Sometime you forget who you really are, and believe yourself to be in thoughts, or a one who is thinking thoughts. 
 

8 minutes ago, fopylo said:

Seems like that is what meditation is really supposed to do, no? - to boost your feeling experience, to feel deeper, more clearly, more opening... I don't feel like that.

It isn’t really supposed to do anything, what drops is thinking you are supposed to be doing anything at all, the conditioning. Love is then free to play. It might seem like there is someone who feels deeper, or opens more, and it might seem like there isn’t.

 

16 minutes ago, fopylo said:

During meditation I might embrace myself as feeling, maybe the flow, maybe the breath, maybe as nothing... but I always during the meditation forget many times and get caught up in beliefs that I am this person who is now having a hard time (forgetting what I'm supposed to focus on and who I really am and the point of this whole thing and all).

Who would embrace who as who?

What is meditating? 
Keep returning to that which the embracement was felt from, don’t allow it to be formed into a thought, or attached to in any form. 
Noticing the forgetting is remembering happening ☺️

[Phil]

@fopylo

Basic meditation is essentially returning attention from the activity of thought back to feeling breathing in the stomach, gently, without self-judgement or conceptualizing. 

 

Sometimes thoughts (& concepts) about meditation, the breath, feeling, the self & meditation, as well expectations & judgements are believed & go unnoticed as the activity of thought, and therein attention isn’t / wasn’t returned to feeling breathing in the stomach. When this is missed there is sometimes the experience of believing the thought(s) ‘meditation doesn’t work’. When the dualistic activity of thought - ‘meditation works for me’, and or, ‘meditation doesn’t work for me’ (or similar) is noticed, gently return attention back to feeling breathing in the stomach. 

 

If breath meditation is overwhelming, the concentration or single pointedness practice is often recommended first.

 

If single pointedness is overwhelming, write in an expression journal about what you’re experiencing. 

Feel & write about the emotion(s) experienced. Aim not conceptualize, but to write about what the emotion actually is. 

 

If difficult emotions arise, be most careful not to avert from the emotions by believing the activity of thought, such that basic meditation or single pointedness meditation or expressive journaling are causing the difficult emotions. 

 

I’d take the time to read all three links / fine tune techniques / rule out any assumptions. 

 

 

[fopylo]

Just gonna put that here:

 

[fopylo]

It's all about the fucking feeling good! Fuck the breath and all that formality bullshit that's fogging my mind. The priority is feeling good/whole (experiencing whole heartedly - expression without leaving a trace). The breath can help lead to feeling; But when feeling is doing its thing, the breath is irrelevant.

[fopylo]

33 minutes ago, Loop said:

The way back to just being Yourself. 
The practice is to be with Awareness, not to look for answers, but to stay just stay, or drop back into what is always. Sometime you forget who you really are, and believe yourself to be in thoughts, or a one who is thinking thoughts

@Loop

What you're writing is so beautiful omg 🥺❤️

Maybe it's because I've just had a good session and can better relate. You pulled thoughts out of my mind so to speak 😂😇

 

The Way: The way back to just being Yourself - noted.

 

The practice of meditation is to be with Awareness, not look for answers - noted.

 

Meditation helps you to remember because sometimes you forget who you really are, and believe yourself to be in thoughts, or a one who is thinking thoughts (and not in the feeling) - noted (super important, for me at least).

39 minutes ago, Loop said:

Love is then free to play.

Engraved in stone 💙💜

Boundaries certainly don't feel loving.

 

It is because Love is when you are the feeling itself, and thoughts (realities, perspectives) move in accordance with feeling, meaning it doesn't matter what you're thinking, what stupid weird thoughts are experienced - Love is what you're after, and without judgement - This is what you truly want to be experiencing, for real.

43 minutes ago, Loop said:

and it might seem like there isn’t.

This is when the 'forgetting' I was talking about happens. Falling into beliefs and literally forgetting that the main focus is on feeling. You see how confusion about where you should put your focus can change everything and push you into the deep pit-hole of suffering? It can take time to remember... Time smeared with blood, sweat and tears (although no tears).

46 minutes ago, Loop said:

Who would embrace who as who?

Seeing/experiencing myself as ____

47 minutes ago, Loop said:

Keep returning to that which the embracement was felt from

That seems like it is precisely feeling, the sensory of harmony and discord. Like a low instinct, almost survival, no?

51 minutes ago, Loop said:

don’t allow it to be formed into a thought, or attached to in any form.

Thoughts will keep appearing, but I'll prioritize abiding in this feeling for the sake of it, even when thoughts change for the better, for the flow.

 

52 minutes ago, Loop said:

Noticing the forgetting is remembering happening ☺️

It do be scary at times, the suffering... And it does seem like you're trying to grip the tiniest hope.

Sometimes I remember I didn't even know what it means to feel better, like how? I didn't have an idea of what it means to feel better than what I felt (say apathy, indifferent).

 

You are a very wise guy and I appreciate your comments, really.

Thanks

💙💖

[Loop]

1 hour ago, fopylo said:

What you're writing is so beautiful omg 🥺❤️

Maybe it's because I've just had a good session and can better relate. You pulled thoughts out of my mind so to speak 😂😇

Don’t mistake the warmth of your own Star with a friendly face pointing back to the Heart. 🥰

 

1 hour ago, fopylo said:

It is because Love is when you are the feeling itself, and thoughts (realities, perspectives) move in accordance with feeling, meaning it doesn't matter what you're thinking, what stupid weird thoughts are experienced - Love is what you're after, and without judgement - This is what you truly want to be experiencing, for real.

 

It gets even better then that, it is what you already are, so you don’t even gotta do anything to “experience” it, you just have to settle into where you already are.
 

1 hour ago, fopylo said:

This is when the 'forgetting' I was talking about happens. Falling into beliefs and literally forgetting that the main focus is on feeling. You see how confusion about where you should put your focus can change everything and push you into the deep pit-hole of suffering? It can take time to remember... Time smeared with blood, sweat and tears (although no tears).

 

It seems like there is one that could or could not be Love, but that is always just thoughts. I know the pit well, eventually it just gets farted out 😆, in a sense the rope is behind you, hold on to that Light.

 

1 hour ago, fopylo said:

Seeing/experiencing myself as ____

 

Can you experience yourself? 
Fill that blank space with light.

Exhail the fight,

Inhail the feeling,

Exhail with a bright, 

Smile in toward the Light. 
True Healing.
 

1 hour ago, fopylo said:

That seems like it is precisely feeling, the sensory of harmony and discord. Like a low instinct, almost survival, no?

 

I usually refer to it as Intuition & the Flow. 

 

1 hour ago, fopylo said:

Thoughts will keep appearing, but I'll prioritize abiding in this feeling for the sake of it, even when thoughts change for the better, for the flow.

Is there a separate ‘this’ feeling that you could focus on over another ‘that’ feeling?

 

1 hour ago, fopylo said:

It do be scary at times, the suffering... And it does seem like you're trying to grip the tiniest hope.

Sometimes I remember I didn't even know what it means to feel better, like how? I didn't have an idea of what it means to feel better than what I felt (say apathy, indifferent).

 

You are a very wise guy and I appreciate your comments, really.

Thanks

💙💖

The fear is guiding you away from thoughts, as long as it isn’t take as, or formed into a thought, a way you think it is. The buds can then bloom into flowers. What feels bad is believing you are going to feel bad, thoughts are always anticipating some imaginary future that never comes 🙃

 

I appreciate you as well, I’m just a dancing fool ❤️
 

Edited September 4, 2022 by Loop

[fopylo]

@Loop Just wanted to update:

 

So this morning I decided to start doing morning meditations, to try it again. This time it didn't go so great.

It didn't feel that fun. Most of the time I felt indifferent/apathy, I didn't really feel any emotion. I felt some resistance when focusing on the breath, as though it is restraining me from feeling feeling. I felt resistance. I was frustrated and angry - so I let it out with some sighs... but then back to the breath, to this restrain, as though nothing changed, and the loop continued.

[Loop]

@fopylo
 

Nothing is restraining you from feeling, it is just constant. What happens is separation is believed, one of the big ones is believing emotions are separate from each other, which is the result of believing that a thought about “a” feeling, is the feeling, which of course it isn’t. Feeling is boundless, indistinct.
 

Apathy when properly inspected fully falls apart, just like the idea that there is someone that could ever be feeling feeling 😄

 

I used tell myself well meditating to go into the desire to move away, to inspect the resistance that the already constant feeling can be unveiled. Stay as Awareness, let the body settle itself. 

 

Feeling is so, You are so.

Don’t try to feel, that is a cycle, Be. 

[fopylo]

1 hour ago, Loop said:

Nothing is restraining you from feeling, it is just constant. What happens is separation is believed, one of the big ones is believing emotions are separate from each other, which is the result of believing that a thought about “a” feeling, is the feeling, which of course it isn’t. Feeling is boundless, indistinct.

@Loop

Agh man.... Ain't gonna lie but it is confusing me more and I feel discord reading "which is the result of believing that a thought about “a” feeling, is the feeling, which of course it isn’t. Feeling is boundless, indistinct."

This is frustrating and confusing to read... brings up the question "Then what the fuck is Feeling?" - even though by now I thought I knew, really expected I'd know by now and have no reason to ask.

Then I don't understand what is feeling? Then what are emotions?

1 hour ago, Loop said:

Apathy when properly inspected fully falls apart, just like the idea that there is someone that could ever be feeling feeling 😄

And then what's left?

1 hour ago, Loop said:

Don’t try to feel, that is a cycle, Be.

I do try to feel. Fuck.

[fopylo]

I just did an hour meditation with this:

Kind of an interesting experience doing it with music, but I felt as though the music is distracting me from the breath (?)

I had moments when I wanted the meditation to finish already.

I was hoping it won't be so bad, as I've already had a good one.

Thought I knew already what I'm supposed to be doing.

I guess I still have more to embrace and let go.

Fucking annoying.

Quite humiliating.

[fopylo]

I just feel more tired and worn out. This isn't what I wanted. I planned to do exercise now and have energy, not to be sleepy

[Loop]

10 minutes ago, fopylo said:

Agh man.... Ain't gonna lie but it is confusing me more and I feel discord reading "which is the result of believing that a thought about “a” feeling, is the feeling, which of course it isn’t. Feeling is boundless, indistinct."

This is frustrating and confusing to read... brings up the question "Then what the fuck is Feeling?" - even though by now I thought I knew, really expected I'd know by now and have no reason to ask.

Then I don't understand what is feeling? Then what are emotions?

Exactly what the fuck is Feeling? 😆I don’t know either. There isn’t a knower that could. Just raw Actuality. Question, observe, in a sense you must become obsessed with figuring it out. Embrace the questions. Don’t accept answers, only feeling-realizations, non-conceptual, not formed into some worldview how how you think things work, direct experience.
 

11 minutes ago, fopylo said:

And then what's left?

Feeling. What is actual, not a concept about Infinity being a bunch of different things. 
 

13 minutes ago, fopylo said:

I do try to feel. Fuck.

Just allow what comes to come, and what goes to go. Acceptance of whatever seems to be going on, then it can actually be worked through, not by you, but by You, Feeling untangles itself from itself. 
 

11 minutes ago, fopylo said:

I had moments when I wanted the meditation to finish already.

I was hoping it won't be so bad, as I've already had a good one.

Thought I knew already what I'm supposed to be doing.

I guess I still have more to embrace and let go.

Fucking annoying.

Quite humiliating.

Is there something you are supposed to be doing? 
Not-knowing can be quite humbling, embrace it. You are awesome for doing this kind of work, doing the Lords work in a sense. Nothing is more worth it.

[fopylo]

@Loop

It seems like you've been experiencing a lot of this Feeling, abiding in this awareness quite a lot and have found yourself in it.

 

I still really like to believe that meditation is done in order to achieve something. I used to think of it as though it would make me more relaxed, powerful, aware. Now it is more subtle, believing it will help me understand more, find my true self... Conditions, fuck.

Why do then meditation for the sake of it? Why do people then suggest (almost preach) about doing meditation?

 

When I exercise, whistle, hum, or sing there is that great feeling; but something tells me that meditation is like a "next level" thing, as though through meditation you also gain understanding, and seeing how everything works...

With the examples above I feel great, though it's usually spontaneous but it's not as though it makes me understand myself better and helping me dissolve my "problems" and inner conflicts/resistance. Meditation seems to be more focused on being still and seeing how all of this is happening.

However, during those examples it is much easier to get out of my head and focus on the flow, while during sitting still it is more difficult and the potential for getting caught in belief cycles is bigger