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I've kinda new what it was referring to all this time, but I've just discerned it, can see it better in my experience and a quick understanding.

My conclusion is that Oneness is... well, sort of the Flow, when everything is moving together without thoughts about separation. It is like direct experience, when experiencing an experience, you're experiencing the experience as one whole - one whole experience.

So Oneness is basically abiding/living in this connectedness, in this wholeness of the experience.

 

So now to how I've discovered that:

I was breathing and was thinking to myself "the breath is kinda boring ngl". I've tried attempting meditation after a long time of not doing it... just to learn about it and contemplate, as I like to. And I've noticed something special -

In the moments when discord is felt are the same moments I have thoughts about separation - about a 'me', 'breath', 'inhale/exhale', 'body parts' As separated things. This is important.

Those thoughts refer to things that do appear, like face, breath, feeling in the mouth, the breath... however, it is the belief that all of those are separated that makes all the difference, all the discord, because now I'm living in separation (not in oneness) with the environment/experience. It has always been that in the moments of feeling good/truthful/joyful/lucid that I've been experiencing everything as a whole, as one.

So now, about the breath.

I was feeling my breath, and naturally thoughts appeared separating the 'breath' from everything else, since it is the point of focus. I felt the discord, but I could also choose to focus on a wider area of feelings to reduce the discord and feel more connected (though I was worried I won't be doing the meditation correctly). I was feeling everything that came up, but then I was like "ok, what now about the breath? I am kinda flowing, but then what about the breath? However, I still don't want it to take me out of the flow and into. separation..." So I was focusing on my breath and made it as the One. I was feeling the breath breathing together with everything being connected and whole.

It isn't about discerning the breath, but feeling the wholeness, by simply being the breath. The wholeness is the keyword, not the breath.

 

Way to tap into this wholeness:

Expression - tapping into the wholeness of this moment, not leaving anything behind. It is returning to honesty and illuminating the relief of emotion.

 

I still have a way to go. I've just done like a 10 minute meditation, and I still have those discordant thinking habits some times. I'll take it slowly, and probably not rush with the meditation.

What do you think? @Phil

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@fopylo

Excellent inspection. 😊

3 hours ago, fopylo said:

Those thoughts refer to things that do appear, like face, breath, feeling in the mouth, the breath... however, it is the belief that all of those are separated that makes all the difference, all the discord, because now I'm living in separation (not in oneness) with the environment/experience.

In the same fashion, can it be noticed that separation, and one living in, or not, separation,  is also the activity of thought? If there is oneness, can there be one which is in and out of oneness?

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@Phil Hmm... nice, and true. This is separation. 'Living in separation' - this thought focuses on separation, on breaking this whole experience into different parts.

 

Now that I've improved my lingo on this matter, I could better communicate to you what I want to communicate (fascinating how my language and what I try to say improve as a result of insights):

When you say "focus on your breath" then a few seconds into meditation and I have the thoughts of 'breath', 'my', 'inhale/exhale'... primarily the separation among me, the breath, my body. It is ironic how the practice of meditation can create the opposite effect, of further believing the separation between those parts.

 

Also, the thought 'oneness' implies there could be separation - both are thoughts. Oneness is only applied outside of thought, because sometimes I try viewing things as connected, implying the default is separation.

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19 minutes ago, fopylo said:

@Phil Hmm... nice, and true. This is separation. 'Living in separation' - this thought focuses on separation, on breaking this whole experience into different parts.

 

Now that I've improved my lingo on this matter, I could better communicate to you what I want to communicate (fascinating how my language and what I try to say improve as a result of insights):

When you say "focus on your breath" then a few seconds into meditation and I have the thoughts of 'breath', 'my', 'inhale/exhale'... primarily the separation among me, the breath, my body. It is ironic how the practice of meditation can create the opposite effect, of further believing the separation between those parts.

 

Also, the thought 'oneness' implies there could be separation - both are thoughts. Oneness is only applied outside of thought, because sometimes I try viewing things as connected, implying the default is separation.

One of the most powerful method is, when you get sad, angry, impatient etc... be aware of thoughts, how does it work and create the separation. 

"It is impossible for a man to learn what he thinks he already knows."

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13 minutes ago, fopylo said:

@James123 Sounds like a very sick method. Then I guess you could say that the more you move up the emotional scale the less separation you see and the more oneness you see?

“you” can not “see” the oneness. You must just “be”.  The more move up to emotional scale there will be less “you”. 

"It is impossible for a man to learn what he thinks he already knows."

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20 hours ago, fopylo said:

@James123 Sounds like a very sick method. Then I guess you could say that the more you move up the emotional scale the less separation you see and the more oneness you see?

 

The very thought "oneness will become more apparent" is also oneness. Its never something that can be "seen". Any "seeing" is also oneness, "not seeing" is oneness and the seeking itself also oneness. You see the trouble here? Whatever you do you just can't escape oneness.

 

Its the illusory nature of seeking that keeps "you" from recognising "yourself". Following and believing thought that has divided oneness up into "oneness" and "not oneness". Even the dividing up is oneness! It's illusory. The division is only present in thought, its not really there. That's why you might hear it described as a hallucination or mirage. It appears real, but isn't.

 

Unfortunately, we have to seek to see that we never had to seek in the first place. What a pain in the ass huh! 😆

 

 

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21 hours ago, fopylo said:

It is ironic how the practice of meditation can create the opposite effect, of further believing the separation between those parts.

It isn’t irony, it is the experience of attention on thoughts, rather than on feeling breathing from the stomach. 

There is no intention of any effect (being created) with meditation, in the formal practice sense.

Just for the purpose here of communicating, I’ll put that slightly different…

It isn’t irony, it is the experience of attention on the thoughts (non-meditative), rather than on feeling breathing from the stomach (meditative). 

 

There is also a / the meditative practice of Awareness of Thoughts

21 hours ago, fopylo said:

 

Also, the thought 'oneness' implies there could be separation - both are thoughts. Oneness is only applied outside of thought, because sometimes I try viewing things as connected, implying the default is separation.

Yes, very nice. More so than Oneness, which is in a sense preliminary… not-two. 

 

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@James123

On 8/12/2022 at 9:30 PM, James123 said:

“you” can not “see” the oneness. You must just “be”.  The more move up to emotional scale there will be less “you”. 

So then what will there be?

@Nowt

On 8/13/2022 at 4:56 PM, Nowt said:

Its the illusory nature of seeking that keeps "you" from recognising "yourself". Following and believing thought that has divided oneness up into "oneness" and "not oneness".

Oh... is that because continuing to seek is continuing to strengthen the presumption that there is a separation between the 'seeker' and what is 'sought'? But how is the dividing up also oneness? - Seems like a cause for suffering..

@Phil

On 8/13/2022 at 5:46 PM, Phil said:

feeling breathing from the stomach.

And this doesn't even exist, since it's in thought. there is no separation between the breath and the rest, right? As with seeking... this also implies a separation - that there is a separation between the breath and everything else.

 

On 8/13/2022 at 5:46 PM, Phil said:

It isn’t irony, it is the experience of attention on the thoughts (non-meditative), rather than on feeling breathing from the stomach (meditative). 

What is the difference in experience between putting attention on thoughts and putting attention on feeling?

On 8/13/2022 at 5:46 PM, Phil said:

Yes, very nice. More so than Oneness, which is in a sense preliminary… not-two.

... So... everything I focus on at a given moment is the infinitude - everything in my experience that could ever be, which is the wholeness of it, and the only thing it can ever be now

 

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On 8/12/2022 at 1:39 PM, fopylo said:

It is ironic how the practice of meditation can create the opposite effect, of further believing the separation between those parts.

It isn’t irony, it is the experience of attention on thoughts, rather than on feeling breathing from the stomach. 

And this doesn't even exist, since it's in thought. there is no separation between the breath and the rest, right?

Only self realization will do (vs anyone’s answers). 

On 8/12/2022 at 1:39 PM, fopylo said:

As with seeking... this also implies a separation - that there is a separation between the breath and everything else.

Seeking is the natural result of being experience. Thinking there is no separation isn’t self realization. 

1 hour ago, fopylo said:

What is the difference in experience between putting attention on thoughts and putting attention on feeling?

The difference in experience is only found in the difference in experience (as opposed to anyone’s answers). 

1 hour ago, fopylo said:

So... everything I focus on at a given moment is the infinitude - everything in my experience that could ever be, which is the wholeness of it, and the only thing it can ever be now

What is your honest answer? That’s all that really matters. 

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@fopylo there's no understanding of oneness because thoughts are infinity appearing as thoughts, so the thoughts cannot actually know infinity, even though they are infinity appearing as thoughts. 

 

Oneness is a caveman word 😄. Some guy in a forest many years ago stumbled into this self realization stuff, and the best that guy came up with was "oneness 🤷‍♂️" .

 

Go straight to the "source". Allow the thought "I AM" to arise, then focus on sensation, and what "I AM" points to will be obvious, so obvious you don't have to think about "it" 😉

🌞🌚

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