Supreme Court overturns Roe v. Wade

[Phil]

Supreme Court overturns Roe v. Wade, ending 50 years of federal abortion rights.

 

Key Points

• The Supreme Court in a 5-4 decision overturned Roe v. Wade, the landmark ruling that established the constitutional right to abortion.
• Roe since 1973 had permitted abortions during the first two trimesters of pregnancy in the United States.
• Almost half the states are expected to outlaw or severely restrict abortion as a result of the Supreme Court’s decision on a Mississippi case known as Dobbs v. Jackson Women’s Health Organization.
• Justice Samuel Alito wrote the majority opinion, joined by four other conservatives. The three liberal justices opposed the decision. Chief Justice John Roberts voted with the majority to uphold the Mississippi abortion restrictions but did not approve of tossing out Roe altogether.

 

https://www.cnbc.com/2022/06/24/roe-v-wade-overturned-by-supreme-court-ending-federal-abortion-rights.html

 

https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/supreme-court-overturns-roe-wade-landmark-case-abortion/story?id=85160781

 

“…reasons that the justices gave in the majority opinion for overturning Roe.” 

https://www.ncregister.com/cna/why-was-roe-v-wade-overturned

 

 

I’d like to get a discussion going about this. As always feel free to express, and also be mindful of The Guidelines. 

 

What are your thoughts? 

Is this good, is this not good?

Where is this headed? 

[Mandy]

 

As someone who would never choose to abort a pregnancy except in certain severe conditions, I would not ever want someone else or the government to intervene to decide for me whether or not those conditions are severe "enough." I'm only here because my Grandmother's ectopic pregnancy was treated timely, now in some cases doctor's have to check with lawyers before treating a woman for ectopic pregnancy, or they have to wait for the woman to be so close to death to begin performing surgery, that she is less likely to survive or recover well from that surgery.  An ectopic pregnancy technically requires abortion to save the life of the mother.  Abortion was not protected when my Grandmother had that pregnancy, but nor was this even considered to be legally or morally questionable. How is it that she got better more humane compassionate medical care 70 years ago than a woman in Texas? That's not the only circumstance that threatens a mother's life. Cervical cancer progresses quite quickly due to pregnancy and it also is likely to be diagnosed during pregnancy, not before. There are many other cases where pregnancy threatens the mother's life. There are cases where continuing pregnancy is not humane for mother OR child. However doctors hands are tied by politicians who likely have not even experienced or considered all of these possible scenarios.  Is it "safe" for a 10 year old girl to bear a child? In my opinion this ruling opens a can of worms, and inflicts judgement and demonstrates a complete lack of compassion and faith in doctors and women to make their own intuitive decisions. 

 

Caffeine use in both mother and father at conception increases the rate of miscarriage, as do many herbs, drugs, and lifestyle choices.  Should caffeine be banned to protect the unborn? Should mothers be prosecuted for their diets and lifestyles if they result in pregnancy loss? Should IUDs be banned? Are we going to ban IVF that has been such a godsend to so many couple struggling with infertility because it's unlikely that the embryos created will implant? 

 

Women that have the means to care for a child but simply don't want one will have the means to travel to get an abortion. Those who do not have the means will no longer have access to safe abortion. 

 

Women are statistically most likely to be murdered while they are pregnant, if you are African American this is an even greater danger. Suicide rates increase in pregnant women as well. This ruling puts the vulnerable at even greater risk. Why haven't we done anything to address violence on women and pregnant women BEFORE overturning this?

 

There is not enough support for mothers and children in this country. Daycare is incredibly expensive, and you are not guaranteed to have an available spot in a daycare when you need one. Nor is that spot guaranteed to be in a quality daycare, or in a distance that you can easily manage to travel. The pandemic made this childcare problem even more unfair, many women had to walk away from jobs in order to provide their children with education. 

 

What about the timing of the infant formula shortage? This country can't insure that babies in his country have access to proper nutrition but it can legislate that a minor give birth to her rapist's baby? Are women going to be prosecuted for not breastfeeding as well? Are we literally putting everything on women now? 

 

While to some allowing states to outlaw abortion may seem like a black and white decision, "a good thing to do", realistically, it's a spectacularly complicated can of worms to have opened. 

 

I think that this decision brings to light a LOT of contrast and I hope that it results in even greater freedom and appreciation for all of life, and that it brings to light our discord, aversion and fear and beliefs around death. It also challenges our ideas and beliefs around power and vulnerability. 

 

[Faith]

"On January 22, 1973, the Supreme Court issued a 7–2 decision holding that the Due Process Clause of the Fourteenth Amendment to the United States Constitution provides a fundamental "right to privacy", which protects a pregnant woman's right to an abortion."

 

Therefore, the overturn is saying women do not have a right to privacy which is covered in the constitution after all. 

 

In saying that, now the government is back in charge of a women's body and reproductive decisions. I have not personally had an abortion, but that is not the point. I did, for my whole life, have the option, if needed. 

 

Women will still have abortions, but now the women that are poor will be back to doing it with coat hangers and potentially bleeding to death in bathtubs like 50 years ago. They have just removed the options for women without means to have "safe" abortions and seriously pissed off the rest of us that are pro-choice. I've always been pro-choice and always will be. Which starts off with the right to privacy and the government staying out of a women's uterus.

 

 

 

 

 

[BlendingInfinite]

USA is basically build upon catholic values. 

 

Abortion is also misused by Satanic cults. 

 

Moreover, the Baby doesn’t belong to the Womans body. It is an Own organism and has also genetic Material of the Man n. If at all the man should also agree to the abortion. 

 

Basically, abortion is the escape for talking responsibility. 

[Faith]

2 hours ago, BlendingInfinite said:

USA is basically build upon catholic values. 

 

"The percentage of Catholics in the U.S. population in 2021 held steady at 21% in the latest Pew Research Center survey, issued Dec. 14."

 

I don't think 21% is very much and there is supposed to be a separation of church and state anyways. So, I don't find its a valid argument personally.

 

2 hours ago, BlendingInfinite said:

Abortion is also misused by Satanic cults. 

🤣

 

2 hours ago, BlendingInfinite said:

Basically, abortion is the escape for talking responsibility. 

Birth control is not and never has been 100% effective. Birth control pills fail, IUD's can get dislodged and condoms break. 🤷‍♀️

 

Women get raped or what about incest?

 

What about the fetus without lungs or a heart or a brain? Or that has died, but doesn't miscarry?

[Orb]

I spoke with my mom about this and told her abortion isnt a problem because life never began! 😁

 

I think its beautiful to not abort a baby and raise someone who can help others. 

 

I also think its beautiful to abort a baby for the sake of ones own betterment.

 

But to impose only one option to the masses is fucked up imo.

[BlendingInfinite]

6 hours ago, Faith said:

I don't think 21% is very much and there is supposed to be a separation of church and state anyways. So, I don't find its a valid argument personally.

USA is basically build upon catholic values, which means that you diverge from the idea of the founding fathers by entertaining new not thought-through ideas.

 

6 hours ago, Faith said:

Birth control is not and never has been 100% effective. Birth control pills fail, IUD's can get dislodged and condoms break. 🤷‍♀️

Exactly, you have to pay attention.

6 hours ago, Faith said:

Women get raped or what about incest?

 

What about the fetus without lungs or a heart or a brain? Or that has died, but doesn't miscarry?

These are edge-cases, which exist in any discussion. They make less than 1%. Miscarry is often the result of an unhealthy lifestyle or incest.

 

 

[BlendingInfinite]

Moreover, vasectomy is much more safe. You don't have to fuck around with 100 guys. Doesn't make sense either, as polygamy is not an effective long-term strategy.

 

Ravens e.g. to plan years ahead and may more intelligent than humans in at least that matter. They live in monogamy. As you don't have to look constantly for new partners etc.

[BlendingInfinite]

7 hours ago, DMT Elf said:

What???? 

 

The rest of what you said are common arguments which I've heard before (although I disagree with them), but the satanic cult thing is totally new to me.

The discussion has been going on for a long time and there are hardly any new arguments to be made.

I don't care if you don't agree with it. Many don't, but many people aren't very bright either.

But many people also agree.

Satanists use abortions for sacrifices.

[BlendingInfinite]

Also, of course, it's not equal if men can't abort the children.

 

There are a lot of women out there who deliberately use their pregnancy as a means of pressure or control and to get alimony.

[Faith]

7 hours ago, BlendingInfinite said:

Moreover, vasectomy is much more safe. You don't have to fuck around with 100 guys

A Vasectomy is a form of male birth control that cuts the supply of sperm to your semen, BUT since you mentioned it. Great idea!

[Faith]

7 hours ago, BlendingInfinite said:

and to get alimony.

No worries, because this effects men too. Now more then in the last 50 yrs they'll be on the hook for child support for 18 yrs, because the condom broke. It's not called "alimony", that is for support of a spouse, not a child. 

 

 

[Phil]

This is interesting….

 

“…in one week, we got more (phone calls) than we typically get in a month… 15 patients called to request appointments for vasectomies in the span of mere hours Thursday — a huge increase from the usual one or two calls daily“.

https://nypost.com/2022/07/01/more-men-getting-vasectomies-after-roe-v-wade-decision-report/

 

 

"We'll typically receive about 200 or so phone calls on a given Friday… we had over 400 phone calls to our office just this past Friday, with 70 occurring over just the one hour period after Roe v. Wade was passed.”

https://www.newsweek.com/here-are-states-seeing-high-vasectomy-consultations-since-abortion-ban-1720847

 

 

Kansas City urologist says vasectomy consults have increased by 900% since Roe v. Wade decision.

https://www.kshb.com/news/local-news/kansas-city-urologist-says-vasectomy-consults-have-increased-by-900-since-roe-v-wade-decision

[BlendingInfinite]

2 hours ago, Faith said:

A Vasectomy is a form of male birth control that cuts the supply of sperm to your semen, BUT since you mentioned it. Great idea!

That's why I meant that you don't have to have sex with 100 men or live polygamously. Since a steady partner is obviously more willing to have a vasectomy.

That was obvious from the context.

1 hour ago, Faith said:

No worries, because this effects men too. Now more then in the last 50 yrs they'll be on the hook for child support for 18 yrs, because the condom broke. It's not called "alimony", that is for support of a spouse, not a child. 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alimony

'.. In most jurisdictions, it is distinct from child support, where, after divorce, one parent is required to contribute to the support of their children by paying money to the child's other parent or guardian..'

- Yes I somehow thought about marriage and got that wrong. Just typed it while walking and didn't thought much about the terminology. However, you knew what I meant anyways, so it was more like unnecessary know-it-all attitude from your side.

[Faith]

28 minutes ago, BlendingInfinite said:

However, you knew what I meant anyways, so it was more like unnecessary know-it-all attitude from your side.

 

From the member who likes to say that "others aren't very bright",  maybe just get your facts straight. Just sayin'.. 😄

 

 

[BlendingInfinite]

56 minutes ago, Faith said:

 

From the member who likes to say that "others aren't very bright",  maybe just get your facts straight. Just sayin'.. 😄

 

 

This is another proof to me, that this is the case. You cannot say someone is not bright  because he once briefly got something wrong. Such statements are not bright. Because the core statement or conclusion is correct.

 

But if someone makes logical conclusions that are not true, then that is not bright - obviously. However, you may don't get it.

[BlendingInfinite]

You suffer from the negative Dunning-Kruger effect. Take a look at this, maybe you'll learn something.

[Mandy]

2 hours ago, Phil said:

This is interesting….

 

“…in one week, we got more (phone calls) than we typically get in a month… 15 patients called to request appointments for vasectomies in the span of mere hours Thursday — a huge increase from the usual one or two calls daily“.

https://nypost.com/2022/07/01/more-men-getting-vasectomies-after-roe-v-wade-decision-report/

 

 

"We'll typically receive about 200 or so phone calls on a given Friday… we had over 400 phone calls to our office just this past Friday, with 70 occurring over just the one hour period after Roe v. Wade was passed.”

https://www.newsweek.com/here-are-states-seeing-high-vasectomy-consultations-since-abortion-ban-1720847

 

 

Kansas City urologist says vasectomy consults have increased by 900% since Roe v. Wade decision.

https://www.kshb.com/news/local-news/kansas-city-urologist-says-vasectomy-consults-have-increased-by-900-since-roe-v-wade-decision

Awesome! Decision begets decision, discussion begets discussion.

 

 

[BlendingInfinite]

1 hour ago, Faith said:

 

From the member who likes to say that "others aren't very bright",  maybe just get your facts straight. Just sayin'.. 😄

 

 

And I told you before multiple times - stop writing me. It is annoying to me and feels like I have to communicate with a brickstone or something like that.

[BlendingInfinite]

@Faith

It's just annoying because you're constantly saying stupid things that are too short and one always have to correct it. As if you think you are smarter than you actually are and want to be right.

I'm only interested in expressing things that are true and understandable. Not any impulsive quick and naive statements.

And if you are, then you are annoyed by people who have no idea what they are talking about and act immodestly. 

 

If you think you are right, then please explain it with arguments and conclusions and not some unsubstantiated opinions thrown into the room.

Edited July 4, 2022 by BlendingInfinite