Bashar On The Election

[Isagi Yoichi]

[Phil]

4 hours ago, Kevin said:

Would your wife divorce you if you voted for trump?

I just asked, she said no. 

 

4 hours ago, Kevin said:

When you invent reasons for why I would vote for Trump and then you think that’s reality then sure maybe I sound crazy.

Fear isn’t a reason, it’s an illusion. I don’t think you sound crazy.

 

4 hours ago, Kevin said:

Also the whole “hiding behind trump” thing comes off as hella condescending. Are Kamala voters hiding behind Kamala rather than feeling their own fear? I could certainly make that argument effectively.

Fear mongering is the main staple. Pointing this out is not meant to be condescending in any way. Kamala isn’t employing fear mongering. 

[Kevin]

36 minutes ago, Blessed2 said:

 

Doesn't matter what bullshit made-up "enemies" are being dehumanized.

 

https://www.fairus.org/issue/illegal-immigration/stolen-lives-victims-illegal-alien-crime

 

Yep “made up enemies”. lol.

36 minutes ago, Blessed2 said:

It's insane, plain fascist and genocidal rhetoric.

 

 

Yeah. Brainwashing and ignorance. Just another Trump quote, right? Totally reasonable, exactly what a presidential candidate should be saying on TV.

 

Aren’t you from Europe? Why do you care about our border policy? Also what country are you from?

[Isagi Yoichi]

37 minutes ago, Blessed2 said:

 

Brainwashing and ignorance.

 

Do you think trump have something on him?

[Kevin]

6 minutes ago, Phil said:

I just asked, she said no. 

 

That is good. I’m happy for your guys. Just curious though why did you say you were gonna divorce your wife if you voted Trump?

6 minutes ago, Phil said:

Fear isn’t a reason, it’s an illusion. I don’t think you sound crazy.

 

Fear mongering is the main staple. Point this out is not meant to be condescending un any way. Kamala isn’t employing fear mongering. 

Brother Phil she and her campaign are most definitely employing fear mongering. Constantly calling trump hitler and a threat to our democracy and saying this will be the last election if trump wins. This is all fear mongering. Both parties do plenty of it.

 

Also you don’t seem to actually understand why many people are voting for trump. Saying it’s just because we are afraid because only Trump does fear mongering is condescending and misinformed.

[Blessed2]

22 minutes ago, Kevin said:

Yep “made up enemies”. lol.

 

Yeah, made-up enemies.

 

"They're coming for our women!" Is probably the most classic example of fear mongering, propaganda and fascist rhetoric there is.

 

That they're also coming for our cats and dogs is a bit more creative one I give you that.

 

28 minutes ago, Kevin said:

Aren’t you from Europe? Why do you care about our border policy? Also what country are you from?

 

Yeah. Finland.

 

We're talking about Trump, not really border policy.

 

[Blessed2]

42 minutes ago, Isagi Yoichi said:

Do you think trump have something on him?

 

No

[Blessed2]

This was a good one:

 

 

 

 

[Kevin]

12 minutes ago, Blessed2 said:

 

Yeah, made-up enemies.

 

"They're coming for our women!" Is probably the most classic example of fear mongering, propaganda and fascist rhetoric there is.

 

That they're also coming for our cats and dogs is a bit more creative one I give you that.

 

 

Yeah. Finland.

 

We're talking about Trump, not really border policy.

 

Your complete dismissal of the women and children who have been raped and killed by illegals is sick. It demonstrates how fake your “empathy” is. Your attempt to turn it into a race thing is also incredibly ugly. It seems you care more about not being racist than the truth.

 

Based on your attitude I also question how genuine you are about the truth.

[Kevin]

1 minute ago, Blessed2 said:

This was a good one:

 

 

 

 

Al Jazeera bro? Come on.

[Phil]

1 hour ago, Kevin said:

That is good. I’m happy for your guys. Just curious though why did you say you were gonna divorce your wife if you voted Trump?

 

7 hours ago, Phil said:

I’m sorry but @Kevin‘s right. It’s the boundaries, the walls, the reality of the looming threat of WW3, and that really matters. It’s probably hard for you to grasp because you is inside another country, or maybe it’s just something you just don’t know yet, but Trump’s going to deal with this for all of us so we don’t have to acknowledge any responsibility, let alone deal with a woman changing anything. Who tf wants a woman around anyways. 

 

The voice in your head, which isn’t thoughts but is God talking to you, is totally right, same as you. The truth is, odd as it may seem, whatever thoughts appear - because that’s the voice of God - it doesn’t actually matter how any of this feels or any nonsense about when you were 3. My apologies guys, I stand corrected, humbled yet again, and will be filing for divorce & voting for Trump obviously.

 

🙏🏼 ♥️

Sorry - that’s entirely facetious and humorous. I thought it was so over the top that it was obvious.  

 

1 hour ago, Kevin said:

Brother Phil she and her campaign are most definitely employing fear mongering. Constantly calling trump hitler and a threat to our democracy and saying this will be the last election if trump wins. This is all fear mongering. Both parties do plenty of it.

It’s an accurate depiction of Trump’s tactic. It is akin to Hitler. 

 

1 hour ago, Kevin said:

Also you don’t seem to actually understand why many people are voting for trump. Saying it’s just because we are afraid because only Trump does fear mongering is condescending and misinformed.

Though there’s a section, this forum isn’t about politics, it’s about self-realization. The entirety of reality is love, reflecting an inner illusion. I want for you only what you want for you, and it has nothing to do with politics. None of what’s been discussed in this thread is actually directly experienced, it’s purely conceptual. It’s the ‘playing out’ of the ‘inner’. 

 

35 minutes ago, Kevin said:

Your complete dismissal of the women and children who have been raped and killed by illegals is sick

Input:

Is there any truth to Trumps claims about illegals murdering and raping women and children?

 

GPT:

Research shows that undocumented immigrants generally commit crimes at lower rates than U.S.-born citizens. Studies covering 150 years of data confirm that immigrants have consistently been less likely to be incarcerated compared to U.S.-born individuals. For example, since 1960, immigrants are 60% less likely to be incarcerated than native-born citizens (Northwestern Now) (SIEPR).

 

Specific data from Texas between 2012 and 2018 shows that U.S. citizens were twice as likely to be arrested for violent felonies and over four times more likely to be arrested for felony property crimes compared to undocumented immigrants (Wisconsin News). So, while crimes are committed by people from all backgrounds, the overall statistical evidence does not support the claim that undocumented immigrants disproportionately drive up crime rates.

 

The ‘us and them’ narrative on Trumps behalf is a tactic as old as time. 

[Phil]

Input:

Why does Trump employ these tactics?

 

GPT:

Trump employs this tactic to appeal to his political base by reinforcing concerns about crime and national security. By focusing on the idea of immigrants as a threat, he galvanizes support around stricter immigration policies and frames himself as a protector of American interests. This strategy taps into long-standing fears and misconceptions about immigration, which can influence voter perceptions and behavior (SIEPR).

 

Historically, such narratives have been used to create a sense of urgency and crisis, positioning the speaker as a solution to these perceived problems. The use of fear-based rhetoric is effective in mobilizing support and drawing clear distinctions between the speaker’s agenda and that of opponents.

 

 

Input:

What might your average staunch Trump supporter find if they were to introspect in this regard?

 

GPT:

If a staunch Trump supporter were to introspect on this topic, they might recognize that their stance on immigration is influenced by fear-based narratives rather than factual data. The rhetoric surrounding immigration often exaggerates the threat posed by undocumented immigrants and aligns with a sense of nationalism or concern for personal safety.

 

Upon deeper reflection, they might realize that:

Emotional Appeals: The fear of crime or economic harm attributed to undocumented immigrants can trigger an emotional response, making it harder to objectively consider evidence that contradicts this view (SIEPR).

 

Identity and Belonging:

Supporting strong stances on immigration might be tied to a sense of identity and belonging to a group that feels its values are under threat. This identity-based support can reinforce biases against immigration even if the statistics don't support it.

 

Confirmation Bias:

They may recognize that they selectively seek out information that aligns with their pre-existing beliefs, avoiding data that challenges their stance.

 

Historical Context:

Understanding that anti-immigrant rhetoric has been used historically to rally political support may shed light on why these narratives persist today (UM Dearborn).

 

Ultimately, introspection could reveal that their support might be less about actual concerns with crime and more about a perception of losing control or cultural change, driven by a narrative that benefits from amplifying these fears.

 

 

 

(Just utilizing GPT to rule out as much possibly subjective opinion as possible)

[Kevin]

8 minutes ago, Phil said:

 

Sorry - that’s entirely facetious and humorous. I thought it was so over the top that it was obvious.  

 

It’s an accurate depiction of Trump’s tactic. It is akin to Hitler. 

 

Phil come on man that’s absolutely a ridiculous point to make. I could argue that Kamala is a communists and I could call her chairman Kamala. It’s accurate but it’s a stupid argument and the only reason certain people employ the hitler argument for trump is fear mongering. 
 

saying it’s accurate so it isn’t fear mongering is also kind of silly because it’s also completely accurate that illegals are raping and killing Americans. Yet you call that fear mongering.

8 minutes ago, Phil said:

Though there’s a section, this forum isn’t about politics, it’s about self-realization. The entirety of reality is love, reflecting an inner illusion. I want for you only what you want for you, and it has nothing to do with politics. None of what’s been discussed in this thread is actually directly experienced, it’s purely conceptual. It’s the ‘playing out’ of the ‘inner’. 

 

I understand. I am conflicted because while politics is largely a playing out of childhood trauma, sometimes people say things that I believe are counter to the truth in very obvious ways and I feel compelled to speak up.

8 minutes ago, Phil said:

Input:

Is there any truth to Trumps claims about illegals murdering and raping women and children?

 

GPT:

Research shows that undocumented immigrants generally commit crimes at lower rates than U.S.-born citizens. Studies covering 150 years of data confirm that immigrants have consistently been less likely to be incarcerated compared to U.S.-born individuals. For example, since 1960, immigrants are 60% less likely to be incarcerated than native-born citizens (Northwestern Now) (SIEPR).

 

Specific data from Texas between 2012 and 2018 shows that U.S. citizens were twice as likely to be arrested for violent felonies and over four times more likely to be arrested for felony property crimes compared to undocumented immigrants (Wisconsin News). So, while crimes are committed by people from all backgrounds, the overall statistical evidence does not support the claim that undocumented immigrants disproportionately drive up crime rates.

 

The rate of illegal immigrant crime is 100% actually. They are already breaking the law being here.

 

on a serious note though what is an acceptable number of murders and rapes before you think we should close the border?

 

I think that 1 is too many. I can’t believe I have to say this but obviously not all illegal immigrants kill and rape. My point is that even a couple is too many. The most tragic part of it is these deaths are that they are largely preventable. Many of them would not have happened under Trump because we had a stricter border policy.

 

Strawmanning this into Kevin hates all immigrants just seems disengenous.

8 minutes ago, Phil said:

The ‘us and them’ narrative on Trumps behalf is a tactic as old as time. 

I agree, I think what you’re missing both sides are doing this.

[Mandy]

4 hours ago, Kevin said:

Yes mostly. I was playing video games while I was listening but I believe I caught most of it. What did you think of it?

It was disturbing and revealing how much Vance turned nearly every single question into an illegal alien talking point. There also seems to be an attempt by Trump of trying to confuse people about the difference between asylum seekers, legal immigrants and "illegal aliens."  To what extent Vance played into this was disturbing. 

[Kevin]

Just now, Mandy said:

It was disturbing and revealing how much Vance turned nearly every single question into an illegal alien talking point. There also seems to be an attempt by Trump of trying to confuse people about the difference between asylum seekers, legal immigrants and "illegal aliens."  To what extent Vance played into this was disturbing. 

I disagree entirely. I don’t think these discussions have much point though. Idk why I engage. I could tell you a laundry lists of points about Harris/walz that are disturbing. I’m sure you could do the same for trump/vantz. Why do we do it?

None of us know the truth. I constantly question if I’m off base or incorrect about these things. There are many things I’m uncertain about. Abortion for example, or the correct amount of government programs. We can all agree hard communism isn’t the answer. Also we can agree that absolutely no government assistance isn’t the answer either. These are tough questions. Probably one of the only political topics that you can deduce the correct answer by arguing from first principles is the illegal immigration question. 
 

And then I question why do I feel compelled to share this. I’m not gonna change any minds clearly. I think it’s because I believe much of the community here is completely off base and needs correcting. But then why is that my job? Idk.

[Kevin]

16 minutes ago, Phil said:

Input:

Why does Trump employ these tactics?

 

GPT:

Trump employs this tactic to appeal to his political base by reinforcing concerns about crime and national security. By focusing on the idea of immigrants as a threat, he galvanizes support around stricter immigration policies and frames himself as a protector of American interests. This strategy taps into long-standing fears and misconceptions about immigration, which can influence voter perceptions and behavior (SIEPR).

 

Historically, such narratives have been used to create a sense of urgency and crisis, positioning the speaker as a solution to these perceived problems. The use of fear-based rhetoric is effective in mobilizing support and drawing clear distinctions between the speaker’s agenda and that of opponents.

 

 

Input:

What might your average staunch Trump supporter find if they were to introspect in this regard?

 

GPT:

If a staunch Trump supporter were to introspect on this topic, they might recognize that their stance on immigration is influenced by fear-based narratives rather than factual data. The rhetoric surrounding immigration often exaggerates the threat posed by undocumented immigrants and aligns with a sense of nationalism or concern for personal safety.

 

Upon deeper reflection, they might realize that:

Emotional Appeals: The fear of crime or economic harm attributed to undocumented immigrants can trigger an emotional response, making it harder to objectively consider evidence that contradicts this view (SIEPR).

 

Identity and Belonging:

Supporting strong stances on immigration might be tied to a sense of identity and belonging to a group that feels its values are under threat. This identity-based support can reinforce biases against immigration even if the statistics don't support it.

 

Confirmation Bias:

They may recognize that they selectively seek out information that aligns with their pre-existing beliefs, avoiding data that challenges their stance.

 

Historical Context:

Understanding that anti-immigrant rhetoric has been used historically to rally political support may shed light on why these narratives persist today (UM Dearborn).

 

Ultimately, introspection could reveal that their support might be less about actual concerns with crime and more about a perception of losing control or cultural change, driven by a narrative that benefits from amplifying these fears.

 

 

 

(Just utilizing GPT to rule out as much possibly subjective opinion as possible)

As a thought experiment you should ask gpt leading questions in the other direction. 

[Mandy]

@Kevin It's making a common scapegoat for issues that have nothing to do with it. The housing shortage is something I've studied hard for over a year and it has NOTHING to do with asylum seekers or illegal immigrants. It's absolutely ridiculous and offensive to Americans and literally everyone else that is experiencing a housing shortage to turn that into a talking point about too many nonwhites in the US. 

 

Conservatives are supposed to be conservative. That is their voice. We have a federal deficit that has run away from us, and insures inflation for the future as it is now, yet there is absolutely no focus of this campaign to do anything about it. What is the real agenda then? Trump is not a genuine Republican, and Vance is not a genuine Trump supporter. Something else is going on. 

[Kevin]

3 minutes ago, Mandy said:

@Kevin It's making a common scapegoat for issues that have nothing to do with it. The housing shortage is something I've studied hard for over a year and it has NOTHING to do with asylum seekers or illegal immigrants. It's absolutely ridiculous and offensive to Americans and literally everyone else that is experiencing a housing shortage to turn that into a talking point about too many nonwhites in the US. 

 

I trust your conclusions on the housing shortage. I however completely disagree with your conclusion that that point means that illegal immigration isn’t an issue. Also your framing of it as a race issue is disingenuous. It’s not a race issue. All skin colors are coming across the southern border. Not just Mexicans. White people too. And Chinese people and pretty much every race. It’s got nothing to do with race.

 

3 minutes ago, Mandy said:

Conservatives are supposed to be conservative. That is their voice. We have a federal deficit that has runaway, yet there is absolutely no focus of this campaign to do anything about it. What is the real agenda then? Trump is not a genuine Republican, and Vance is not a genuine Trump supporter. 

I fully agree that the deficit is an issue that needs to be resolved. Unfortunately we are kind of stuck because it seems like a politician saying we need to spend less and tax more would destroy their career.

[Mandy]

35 minutes ago, Kevin said:

I trust your conclusions on the housing shortage. I however completely disagree with your conclusion that that point means that illegal immigration isn’t an issue.

An issue is an issue. To turn every single issue unrelated into THAT issue is really creepy, especially on the heels of the Springfield comments from Trump which were referring to Haitian asylum seekers, NOT illegal immigrants. 

[Mandy]

45 minutes ago, Kevin said:

I fully agree that the deficit is an issue that needs to be resolved. Unfortunately we are kind of stuck because it seems like a politician saying we need to spend less and tax more would destroy their career.

We aren't stuck if we take the time to really look at what's going on, instead of being manipulated by emotionally charged and uninspected talking point buttons. Building a wall is not going to help inflation. Fearing immigrants and strengthening US vs OTHERS is not going to help people afford to heat their homes.  Nothing addressed by Vance in that debate will help inflation or make childcare or housing more affordable. Liberals are as they say, voicing the liberal point of view, "spend on this, it'll be good". What even IS the conservative point of view anymore? It seems like it died with John McCain.