What Am I Still Missing Regarding Spiritual Enlightenment?

[Joseph Maynor]

Just now, Phil said:

There’s no you. 

 

Where have I heard this before in this thread?

[Jonas Long]

4 minutes ago, Joseph Maynor said:

 

You're attached to pleasant feeling as a basis for Feeling.

It's like a rorschach test.  Or a raw shark text. You see/get eaten by what you are. 

Edited May 30 by Jonas Long

[Phil]

1 minute ago, Joseph Maynor said:

 

Where have I heard this before in this thread?

That’s the you there isn’t. This is anew as this is apparent. 

 

Which crocodile is currently winning btw, Tyler Durden or the narrator? 

[Joseph Maynor]

4 minutes ago, Phil said:

That’s the you there isn’t. This is anew as this is apparent. 

 

Which crocodile is currently winning btw, Tyler Durden or the narrator? 

 

You're playing coy with me.  You know the answer to these questions.  Play-ing.  Being is Play.  Interesting!  Truth is very different than Play -- right? -- I'm not sure; just throwing it out there.  Maybe they're the Same.

Edited May 30 by Joseph Maynor

[Phil]

1 minute ago, Joseph Maynor said:

 

You're playing coy with me.  You know the answer to these questions.

Liberation is that there is no you. 

Why else would so called lack of confidence, anxiety, depression, social anxiety, etc, etc, etc feel so… directly… off. 

 

 

[Joseph Maynor]

1 minute ago, Phil said:

Liberation is that there is no you. 

Why else would so called lack of confidence, anxiety, depression, social anxiety, etc, etc, etc feel so… directly… off. 

 

 

 

Who's feeling off?  I don't get this?  Are you feeling off?  I like circular logic, but I'm not gonna claim that it makes any sense, probably by design.

[Phil]

1 minute ago, Joseph Maynor said:

 

Who's feeling off?  I don't get this?  Are you feeling off?  I like circular logic, but I'm not gonna claim that it makes any sense, probably by design.

Thought attachment can be such that even as the very words there is no you are read, immediately a thought appears about there being a you and the action / behavior seems to happen, as a question about who’s feeling off. It’s hard to imagine this and a relationship simultaneously. Communication was better with my great grandma when she was deaf, blind & mute. 

[Joseph Maynor]

Just now, Phil said:

Thought attachment can be such that even as the very words there is no you are read, immediately a thought appears about there being a you and the action / behavior seems to happen, as a question about who’s feeling off. It’s hard to imagine this and a relationship simultaneously. Communication was better with my great grandma when she was deaf, blind & mute. 

 

Lighten up Phil you're taking this way too personally.

[Phil]

Just now, Joseph Maynor said:

 

Lighten up Phil you're taking this way too personally.

There it is again. 😂 

[Joseph Maynor]

"Continuing diversely in the midst of ignorance, the unenlightened take airs by thinking, "We have attained the fullest achievement."  Since the men, engaged in karma, do not understand (the truth) under the influence of attachment, thereby they become afflicted with sorrow and deprived of heaven on the exhaustion of the results of karma." -- Adi Shankara, Commentaries on The Upanishads, Gambirananda translation, Vol. 1, Pg. 105.

"[I]n their essence from every point of view, the worlds that exist as the goals of transmigration ranging from the Unmanifested to a motionless thing, whether evolved or involved; that are productive of one another like the seed and the sprout; that are assailed with multifarious troubles in their hundreds and thousands; that are devoid of substance like the interior of a plantain tree; that appear like magic, water in a mirage, or a city in space; and that are comparable to dream, water-bubbles, and foam, that get destroyed at every turn; -- that is to say, turning one's back to virtue and vice acquired through karma, instigated by the defects of ignorance and desire, a Brahmana should renounce." -- Adi Shankara, Commentaries on The Upanishads, Gambirananda translation, Vol. 1, Pg. 110.

 

//

My definition of Love is We Awaken together ❤️ -- JM

 

//

Shankara teaching (Loving):

Edited May 31 by Joseph Maynor

[Robed Mystic]

On 5/28/2024 at 1:37 PM, Joseph Maynor said:

You guys know me on here now.  Give me the pointers as to what you think I'm still missing regarding spiritual enlightenment.  

Have you done self inquiry?

[Joseph Maynor]

Just now, Robed Mystic said:

Have you done self inquiry?

 

Yes, but I know how you and I differ.  You think the Self is a mind where I think the Self transcends the mind.  

[Robed Mystic]

Just now, Joseph Maynor said:

 

Yes, but I know how you and I differ.  You think the Self is a mind where I think the Self transcends the mind.  

That's not where I started.  I started with simply self inquiry.   What do you mean by I think the self is a mind? Do you mean idealism vs materialism?

[Joseph Maynor]

24 minutes ago, Robed Mystic said:

That's not where I started.  I started with simply self inquiry.   What do you mean by I think the self is a mind? Do you mean idealism vs materialism?

 

I take Maharshi's view that Self inquiry is basically Self-realization.  Otherwise you just end up in mind.  Self-inquiry and contemplation can be a trap.  Maharshi talks about neti neti being a very subtle trap.  Again, the problem is you can't find the Self with the mind because you're in subject-object duality land.  The mind inherently puts things in subject-object dualities.  This is why intellect has nothing to do with enlightenment.  I don't think feelings have anything to do with enlightenment either.  Mind and feelings aren't unimportant, they're just part of the illusion not the Self.  The Self has no parts.  I resonate with a very strict version of Advaita Vedanta when it comes to spiritual enlightenment.  I resonate with Maharshi quite a bit.  He's even more strict than Shankara is when it comes to stripping out the pre-enlightenment trappings from the highest teaching.  I'm interested in hearing more about your version of spiritual enlightenment though.  I know you differ from Leo in certain ways because I read your posts.

Edited May 31 by Joseph Maynor

[Joseph Maynor]

This is from ChatGPT:

 

Q: What does Advaita Vedanta Think About Feeling?
 

"Advaita Vedanta, a school of Hindu philosophy, primarily focuses on the non-dual nature of reality.  It teaches that the ultimate reality, Brahman, is pure consciousness and that the individual self (Atman) is identical to Brahman.  In this context, feelings and emotions are understood in a specific way: Maya and Illusion.  Advaita Vedanta posits that the phenomenal world, including feelings and emotions, is a manifestation of Maya, which is the cosmic illusion.  Maya creates a veil that obscures the true nature of reality, leading individuals to identify with their mind and body rather than with Brahman.

• Transient Nature: Feelings and emotions are considered transient and impermanent.  They arise and pass away, and are therefore not part of the unchanging, eternal nature of the true self (Atman).  Advaita Vedanta encourages practitioners to recognize the ephemeral nature of emotions and not to be overly attached to them.
• Self-Realization: The ultimate goal in Advaita Vedanta is self-realization or the realization of one's true nature as Brahman.  This involves transcending the ego and the mind, including its thoughts and emotions.  By doing so, one can experience a state of pure consciousness, free from the fluctuations of feelings and emotions.
• Detachment: Practitioners are encouraged to develop Vairagya (dispassion or detachment) towards worldly experiences, including emotions.  This doesn't mean suppressing emotions, but rather observing them without attachment and recognizing that they do not define the true self.
• Mind as an Instrument: Emotions are seen as activities of the mind, which is considered an instrument or a tool for interacting with the world.  In Advaita Vedanta, the mind, including its emotional aspect, should be purified and disciplined to support the journey towards self-realization.

In summary, while Advaita Vedanta acknowledges the existence of feelings and emotions, it views them as part of the illusory, transient world.  The philosophy encourages transcending these temporary experiences to realize one's true nature as the non-dual, unchanging consciousness of Brahman."

Edited May 31 by Joseph Maynor

[Robed Mystic]

8 hours ago, Joseph Maynor said:

 

I take Maharshi's view that Self inquiry is basically Self-realization.  Otherwise you just end up in mind.  Self-inquiry and contemplation can be a trap.  Maharshi talks about neti neti being a very subtle trap.  Again, the problem is you can't find the Self with the mind because you're in subject-object duality land.  

Thats not true.   The false self never was...awareness is what is actually inquiring.   All You as awareness have to do is realize that what you think you are is an illusion - and then enlightenment dawns.  The key is the ego or false self has to honestly be taken by total surprise otherwise it will have the guards up and it will not let you go there.  Because if you realize it - boom.  No more ego..no more you!  It will be awakening.  So the real trap is all the pre-spiritual mumbo jumbo that has been filling your mind for years.  It's better to come into the inquiry with a blank slate.  So now it's even harder for you.  But not impossible. 

Edited May 31 by Robed Mystic

[James123]

8 hours ago, Joseph Maynor said:

This is from ChatGPT:

 

Q: What does Advaita Vedanta Think About Feeling?
 

"Advaita Vedanta, a school of Hindu philosophy, primarily focuses on the non-dual nature of reality.  It teaches that the ultimate reality, Brahman, is pure consciousness and that the individual self (Atman) is identical to Brahman.  In this context, feelings and emotions are understood in a specific way: Maya and Illusion.  Advaita Vedanta posits that the phenomenal world, including feelings and emotions, is a manifestation of Maya, which is the cosmic illusion.  Maya creates a veil that obscures the true nature of reality, leading individuals to identify with their mind and body rather than with Brahman.

• Transient Nature: Feelings and emotions are considered transient and impermanent.  They arise and pass away, and are therefore not part of the unchanging, eternal nature of the true self (Atman).  Advaita Vedanta encourages practitioners to recognize the ephemeral nature of emotions and not to be overly attached to them.
• Self-Realization: The ultimate goal in Advaita Vedanta is self-realization or the realization of one's true nature as Brahman.  This involves transcending the ego and the mind, including its thoughts and emotions.  By doing so, one can experience a state of pure consciousness, free from the fluctuations of feelings and emotions.
• Detachment: Practitioners are encouraged to develop Vairagya (dispassion or detachment) towards worldly experiences, including emotions.  This doesn't mean suppressing emotions, but rather observing them without attachment and recognizing that they do not define the true self.
• Mind as an Instrument: Emotions are seen as activities of the mind, which is considered an instrument or a tool for interacting with the world.  In Advaita Vedanta, the mind, including its emotional aspect, should be purified and disciplined to support the journey towards self-realization.

In summary, while Advaita Vedanta acknowledges the existence of feelings and emotions, it views them as part of the illusory, transient world.  The philosophy encourages transcending these temporary experiences to realize one's true nature as the non-dual, unchanging consciousness of Brahman."

I think, you should check out Krishnamurti. Because, it seems too much knowledge accumulated within you. 

[ivankiss]

This just came in:

 

There is no truth in thought. There just isn't. In fact, thought is more like the anti - truth. And not even.

It is an attempt to escape truth. To escape being. To escape what is.

 

Innocent, beautiful, hideous, evil... Thought.

 

It is an attempt that is destined to fail. Nothing can stop it from trying, but it can never truly succeed in its mission.

 

 

[Joseph Maynor]

1 hour ago, James123 said:

I think, you should check out Krishnamurti. Because, it seems too much knowledge accumulated within you. 

 

Are we talking about spiritual enlightenment here?  If so, I would recommend what I am trying to point out over and over here.  I am not a separate self that you're teaching.  Does this resonate?  You keep projecting a separate self onto me.  If you were awake you would realize I don't exist.  An even though this movie is here, it's an illusion, and there is no Joseph Maynor self or Self, and certainly not a Self controlling a self.  There's only one Self and it's You.  This you and me teaching each other here is maya for you and maya for me, and not the Self.  Thus if we're talking about spiritual enlightenment, it's a level up from where we're both functioning here.  ❤️

Edited May 31 by Joseph Maynor

[Joseph Maynor]

4 hours ago, Robed Mystic said:

Thats not true.   The false self never was...awareness is what is actually inquiring.   All You as awareness have to do is realize that what you think you are is an illusion - and then enlightenment dawns.  The key is the ego or false self has to honestly be taken by total surprise otherwise it will have the guards up and it will not let you go there.  Because if you realize it - boom.  No more ego..no more you!  It will be awakening.  So the real trap is all the pre-spiritual mumbo jumbo that has been filling your mind for years.  It's better to come into the inquiry with a blank slate.  So now it's even harder for you.  But not impossible. 

 

But you're an illusion telling another illusion  "that's not true!" while Witnessing this scene play out.  🧠