What Am I Still Missing Regarding Spiritual Enlightenment?

[Robed Mystic]

5 minutes ago, Joseph Maynor said:

 

But you're an illusion telling another illusion  "that's not true!" while Witnessing this scene play out.  🧠

You can't help that because awareness and ego are ultimately the same thing.  It's all awareness It's just the state of Consciousness you are in.   So yes it is going to seem paradoxical but how else could you awaken then?  Think about that.  The ego would actually have to be able to surprise itself.  God had to allow a loophole.  Don't view paradox as a potential barrier.   If you are open to reality being One then paradox is inevitable  

Edited May 31 by Robed Mystic

[Joseph Maynor]

33 minutes ago, Robed Mystic said:

You can't help that because awareness and ego are ultimately the same thing.  It's all awareness It's just the state of Consciousness you are in.   So yes it is going to seem paradoxical but how else could you awaken then?  Think about that.  The ego would actually have to be able to surprise itself.  God had to allow a loophole.  Don't view paradox as a potential barrier.   If you are open to reality being One then paradox is inevitable  

 

You Awaken when the illusion within You decided to off itself basically.  The mind self-immolates because it realizes only the Self exists.  Once you see there's no mirage the mind will not keep the mirage around in other words.  Once the mind sees that there's no mind, the mind eats itself and only the Self remains.  The ego is a projection of the Self as the self by the mind.  These are all just pointers in the spiritual enlightenment movie by the way.  What a great movie this is, but the Self a "level up" from this, it's the Witness to this.  Teaching enlightenment is already going to be by necessity happening in the movie because it inherently contains the ignorance of the self vs. and the other duality.  But since there is going to be some movie playing that is being Watched, it's not a bad one!  But we tend to conflate the Self with the self vs./and other, this Joseph Maynor character in the movie keeps trying to point this out!  Basically the self in the movie has to realize they're the Self and remove the ignorance of thought that identifies the Self with the self basically.  Once this is realized or Self-realization occurs, then the mind collapses because there's nothing it can do to defend itself at that point.  And then ego collapses because ego requires the I-Thought (the mind basically) directed externally projecting the Self as the self.  But that I-Thought snuffs itself out when it is realized that the only I is the Self, and that doesn't require an I-thought.  The Self is nondual and attribute-less.

Edited May 31 by Joseph Maynor

[Robed Mystic]

8 minutes ago, Joseph Maynor said:

 

You Awaken when the illusion within You decided to off itself basically.  The mind self-immolates because it realizes only the Self exists.  Once you see there's no mirage the mind will not keep the mirage around in other words.  Once the mind sees that there's no mind, the mind eats itself and only the Self remains.  The ego is a projection of the Self as the self by the mind.  

In a sense yes.   But it doesn't do it intentionally.   So immolate is not a good word.  It merely accidentally kills itself.   See how hard this is through meditation for a non-genetic freak that already has armed itself with this Intel?  Why do you think psychedelics are pushed so much in certain circles.   Because it is said that in taking psychedelics the ego is just simply overwhelmed.  Now..I have my doubts here but if it were to be feasible than why not try.

Edited May 31 by Robed Mystic

[Joseph Maynor]

10 minutes ago, Robed Mystic said:

In a sense yes.   But it doesn't do it intentionally.   So immolate is not a good word.  It merely accidentally kills itself.   See how hard this is through meditation for a non-genetic freak that already has armed itself with this Intel?  Why do you think psychedelics are pushed so much in certain circles.   Because it is said that in taking psychedelics the ego is just simply overwhelmed.  Now..I have my doubts here but if it were to be feasible than why not try.

 

Psychedelics are useful but not required for this to happen because this is a permanent shift not a temporary one.  Psychedelics can give you glimpses like seeing the tail of the ox.  But Self-realization is a shift in identity that is permanent.  

Edited May 31 by Joseph Maynor

[Robed Mystic]

7 minutes ago, Joseph Maynor said:

 

Psychedelics are useful but not required for this to happen because this is a permanent shift not a temporary one.

If it happens the means by which it does wouldn't matter, theoretically.  Enlightenment isn't a permanent shift. You do return to a normal state of Consciousness but with a natural Enlightenment this could be weeks and not promised.  I recall for days I could not function and had to force myself back into a functional state.  But really if one wants to do it via meditation than shutting off the mind with some type of no mind mediation combined with self inquiry meditation is best.  Because it quiets the mind into a state of not-knowing.

Edited May 31 by Robed Mystic

[Joseph Maynor]

2 minutes ago, Robed Mystic said:

If it happens the means by which it does wouldn't matter, theoretically.  Enlightenment isn't a permanent shift. You do return to a normal state of Consciousness but with a natural Enlightenment this could be weeks and not promised.  I recall for days I could not function and had to force myself back into a functional state.  But really if one wants to do it via meditation than shutting off the mind with some type of no mind mediation combined with self inquiry meditation is best.  Because it quiets the mind into a state of not-knowing.

 

What it does is disrupt the I-thought that connects the Self with the self basically.  That's Maharshi in a line.

Edited May 31 by Joseph Maynor

[Robed Mystic]

6 minutes ago, Joseph Maynor said:

 

What it does is disrupt the I-thought that connects the Self with the self basically.  That's Maharshi in a line.

Yeah I would agree. 

[Joseph Maynor]

39 minutes ago, Robed Mystic said:

Yeah I would agree. 

 

He considered the I-thought as like the "mother thought", so once this thought is seen through, a lot of other thoughts fall away too.  Mother thought is not his term I forget the actual term he uses.  

"The mind is only a bundle of thoughts. The thoughts have their root in the I-thought. Whoever investigates the True "I" enjoys the stillness of bliss." -- Ramana Maharshi

Edited June 1 by Joseph Maynor

[Orb]

33 minutes ago, Joseph Maynor said:

 

He considered the I-thought as like the "mother thought", so once this thought is seen through, a lot of other thoughts fall away too.  Mother thought is not his term I forget the actual term he uses.  

"The mind is only a bundle of thoughts. The thoughts have their root in the I-thought. Whoever investigates the True "I" enjoys the stillness of bliss." -- Ramana Maharshi

Ime thought never actually disappears, it just fades in the background. There's a rewiring that occurs on the path where feeling becomes primary while thinking becomes secondary. 

 

So feeling is far more pronounced to the point where thought is just subtle sounds in the background. 

[Joseph Maynor]

2 hours ago, Orb said:

Ime thought never actually disappears, it just fades in the background. There's a rewiring that occurs on the path where feeling becomes primary while thinking becomes secondary. 

 

So feeling is far more pronounced to the point where thought is just subtle sounds in the background. 

 

This is where my experience is a little bit different.  For me, feeling fades into the background as well as thought.  Bliss is an Eternal Peace that sits up underneath both thoughts (mind) and feelings (body).  The Self is to the mind as Bliss is to feeling in other words.  Thoughts and feelings aren't bad, but they're changing.  Existence (Brahman), Awareness (Atman), and Bliss (Peace) don't change.  In other words, Sat, Chit, Ananda.  Thoughts and feelings can be pointers to Self-realization, but they are not going to quite get at what is being pointed to.  It's a much more radical shift than that.  But people have to start somewhere too.  You can't teach Maharshi to someone young on the path.  They're not ready for that.  There's degrees of unveiling that are required on the path.  I think these are called the vasanas in Hinduism.  The gunas.  These have to be "deprogramed" as not being properties or attributes of the Self, which is attribute-less and nondual.  The layers of the onion have to be seen through, and there are a lot of subtle and sneaky layers too.  There's awakening and then there is Awakening.  Both thoughts and emotions are caused by the fixed I-thought between the Self and the self.  Bliss is stillness like a Japanese pond.  The Self is still like curiosity without an object to be curious of.  Some people call this the Witness -- it's an Attachment without attachment.  An attachment to Being without craving, thus Moksha or Liberation. 

The Self doesn't have the attribute of suffering, it doesn't have any attributes such as: pleasure, pain, delusion, wisdom, mind, body, etc.  And the Self is You.  Brahman = Atman.  Sat = Cit.  And Ananda or Eternal Peace (Bliss) arises as a result of this removing of ignorance or "Avidya" as to the True (Existent) nature of the Self.  Being in other words.  Not Being as a concept though, don't get that wrong.  I'm reluctant to use the word "Being" for this reason, it's easily swapped by the mind into something that goes away from what is intended to point to.  Ditto for words like "God", as to the same problematic issue.  The thought that something (an object) is causing pain or pleasure to You (a misplaced subject) is an illusion and false (unreal/nonexistent/untrue).

Sometimes a picture can really paint Infinite words.  This is just a pointer too, keep this in mind.  There are so many symbols in this image it's amazing.  If You can See it, You might get It.

Edited June 1 by Joseph Maynor

[James123]

11 hours ago, Joseph Maynor said:

 

Are we talking about spiritual enlightenment here?  If so, I would recommend what I am trying to point out over and over here.  I am not a separate self that you're teaching.  Does this resonate?  You keep projecting a separate self onto me.  If you were awake you would realize I don't exist.  An even though this movie is here, it's an illusion, and there is no Joseph Maynor self or Self, and certainly not a Self controlling a self.  There's only one Self and it's You.  This you and me teaching each other here is maya for you and maya for me, and not the Self.  Thus if we're talking about spiritual enlightenment, it's a level up from where we're both functioning here.  ❤️

What We are is               .

 

That's it. 

[Joseph Maynor]

10 hours ago, James123 said:

What We are is               .

 

That's it. 

 

What I Am is.  That's it. ❤️

Edited June 1 by Joseph Maynor

[Orb]

@Joseph Maynor if you want my suggestion, Feel more, Believe less. 

 

Too much knowledge of non duality concepts ironically veils the nature of reality. 

 

I'm serious, maybe stop reading any nondual books you have, forget about nonduality. 

[Joseph Maynor]

10 hours ago, Orb said:

@Joseph Maynor if you want my suggestion, Feel more, Believe less. 

 

Too much knowledge of non duality concepts ironically veils the nature of reality. 

 

I'm serious, maybe stop reading any nondual books you have, forget about nonduality. 

 

You're seriously believing I'm a separate self.  There's only the Self.  And not even.

[Joseph Maynor]

10 hours ago, Orb said:

@Joseph Maynor if you want my suggestion, Feel more, Believe less. 

 

Too much knowledge of non duality concepts ironically veils the nature of reality. 

 

I'm serious, maybe stop reading any nondual books you have, forget about nonduality. 

 

You're seriously believing I'm a separate self.  There's only the Self.  And not even.

"[T]he knowledge of the Self relates to the Reality that is the Self.  The means to the attainment of immortality is the knowledge of the Self which is the supreme Reality beyond all names.  If that knowledge remains associated with some secondary result (within the world), it cannot pertain to the Reality that is the Self from which is ruled out all distinctions." -- Adi Shankara

Edited June 2 by Joseph Maynor

[Jonas Long]

3 minutes ago, Joseph Maynor said:

 

You're seriously believing I'm a separate self.  There's only the Self.  And not even.

"[T]he knowledge of the Self relates to the Reality that is the Self.  The means to the attainment of immortality is the knowledge of the Self which is the supreme Reality beyond all names.  If that knowledge remains associated with some secondary result (within the world), it cannot pertain to the Reality that is the Self from which is ruled out all distinctions." -- Adi Shankara

You're seriously believing he's a separate self.

[Joseph Maynor]

Just now, Jonas Long said:

You're seriously believing he's a separate self.

 

You got it!  Love is entering the dream to try to awaken another.  

[Jonas Long]

2 minutes ago, Joseph Maynor said:

 

You got it!  Love is entering the dream to try to awaken another.  

There's no other.

[Joseph Maynor]

Just now, Jonas Long said:

There's no other.

 

Exactly.  That's why teaching is already absurd.

[Jonas Long]

3 minutes ago, Joseph Maynor said:

 

Exactly.  That's why teaching is already absurd.

The preoccupation with the idea of "teaching" is pretty silly yeah.