Permanent Enlightenment

[James123]

7 minutes ago, Joseph Maynor said:

 

That's correct.  But what about your echo?  It's like yelling in a canyon, hearing an echo, and thinking that's someone trying to talk to you.  You're still challenging me which tells me you don't quite get it.  What are you trying to win and from whom?  You don't need anything!  You have Everything.  The Self = Bliss.  I think you confuse Love for Bliss.  They're different.  Bliss doesn't require Love but Love requires Bliss.  You can't get at the Divine (The Self) by inference from the illusion (the ego).

You crazy brother. My mean from eco is my sound, because the one who says these sentences is ego too. You definitely misunderstood lol

[Joseph Maynor]

42 minutes ago, James123 said:

You crazy brother. My mean from eco is my sound, because the one who says these sentences is ego too. You definitely misunderstood lol

 

I love you man.  Whatever you need to do to win.  ❤️

Edited May 29 by Joseph Maynor

[James123]

20 minutes ago, Joseph Maynor said:

 

I love you man.  Whatever you need to do to win.  ❤️

We are not winners, we are "loser's". I love you too brother ❤️ ❤️ ❤️ 

[Phil]

To the losers!🍻♥️

[James123]

9 minutes ago, Phil said:

To the losers!🍻♥️

🥂 🥂 ❤️ 

[Blessed2]

Neither me nor you is projecting! Projection is going on and both you and me are what's projected.

 

Neither of us can do anything about it, just like a movie character can't change what the authors have written.

 

[Alexander]

12 minutes ago, Blessed2 said:

Neither me nor you is projecting! Projection is going on and both you and me are what's projected.

 

Neither of us can do anything about it, just like a movie character can't change what the authors have written.

 

Yes I believe in determinism too because it's scientifically based.

[Joseph Maynor]

4 hours ago, James123 said:

We are not winners, we are "loser's". I love you too brother ❤️ ❤️ ❤️ 

 

That was a sneaky and subtle way to win lol.  ❤️🧠

Notice the sneaky and subtle ways that egos strive to win.  You're not a loser.  You're the Winner!  The ego is not Yours.  It's not You.  Look at me trying to win here!  This just goes on and on and on.  This is not anything that needs to be walked back.  Everybody does this.  Spiritual people do this.  This is the whole reason I like the crocodile metaphor for ego.  That's not a bug, that's a feature.  If you want Love, learning how to love the crocodile nature of ego is required because if you don't you're not going to even find Love.  Key point -- ego is not something to be ashamed of, it's a feature of the illusion that's in the illusion we all share.  We're all in this one-upsmanship thing, it's how egos survive.  It's exactly what samsara is.  The key I think is to not take it personally because that's not You.  You're the Self that is not involved in any of this.  Don't be ashamed of the ego wanting to win, that's what it does -- that's its nature!  You're not in control of ego, nobody is.  The thing to do is to detach from it and kind of laugh about it.  It's funny as hell.  There's no need for the kind of shame that some people have toward ego.  Shame implies that something else could have been, or that You can control ego.  The fake humility is often another disguised way to win too, so notice that.  All egos are sneaky devils, just observe how they operate.

Edited May 29 by Joseph Maynor

[Jane]

9 hours ago, Joseph Maynor said:

 

That was a sneaky and subtle way to win lol.  ❤️🧠

  Don't be ashamed of the ego wanting to win, that's what it does -- that's its nature!  
 

 

Reminds me of this….

 

“The Scorpion and the Frog is an animal fable that originated in Russia in the early 20th century. It's about a scorpion who asks a frog to carry him across a river, but stings him halfway across, dooming them both. When the frog asks why, the scorpion replies that it was in his nature to do so. The fable's moral is that some people or creatures can't help being who they are, even when it's not in their own best interests“

 

 

 

Edited May 30 by Jane

[Joseph Maynor]

1 hour ago, Jane said:

Reminds me of this….

 

“The Scorpion and the Frog is an animal fable that originated in Russia in the early 20th century. It's about a scorpion who asks a frog to carry him across a river, but stings him halfway across, dooming them both. When the frog asks why, the scorpion replies that it was in his nature to do so. The fable's moral is that some people or creatures can't help being who they are, even when it's not in their own best interests“

 

 

 

 

Perfect example. I love this image.  I think it paints 1000 words.  Accepting the shark tank nature of Samsara and paradoxically Loving it and Befriending it.  It cannot hurt Me.  But it's always going to be Samsara.  I think we have this fantasy that the sharks in the tank could in theory all start to love each other, which is delusion.  Even the gentlest hippies are engaged in one-upmanship, as are highly spiritual people.  It's crocodile tanks all the way down.  Different tanks, similar crocodiles.


 

Edited May 30 by Joseph Maynor

[Jane]

@Joseph Maynor 👍👏

[James123]

14 hours ago, Joseph Maynor said:

 

That was a sneaky and subtle way to win lol.  ❤️🧠

Notice the sneaky and subtle ways that egos strive to win.  You're not a loser.  You're the Winner!  The ego is not Yours.  It's not You.  Look at me trying to win here!  This just goes on and on and on.  This is not anything that needs to be walked back.  Everybody does this.  Spiritual people do this.  This is the whole reason I like the crocodile metaphor for ego.  That's not a bug, that's a feature.  If you want Love, learning how to love the crocodile nature of ego is required because if you don't you're not going to even find Love.  Key point -- ego is not something to be ashamed of, it's a feature of the illusion that's in the illusion we all share.  We're all in this one-upsmanship thing, it's how egos survive.  It's exactly what samsara is.  The key I think is to not take it personally because that's not You.  You're the Self that is not involved in any of this.  Don't be ashamed of the ego wanting to win, that's what it does -- that's its nature!  You're not in control of ego, nobody is.  The thing to do is to detach from it and kind of laugh about it.  It's funny as hell.  There's no need for the kind of shame that some people have toward ego.  Shame implies that something else could have been, or that You can control ego.  The fake humility is often another disguised way to win too, so notice that.  All egos are sneaky devils, just observe how they operate.

Ego can be let go, even if it talks, you don't need to listen and that's what enlightenment is about. Permanent silence in the so called mind. Moreover, if something doesn't feel good, fuck that and let go. That's what i do. 

[Joseph Maynor]

23 minutes ago, James123 said:

Moreover, if something doesn't feel good, fuck that and let go. That's what i do. 

 

You're not really letting anything go though.  You're not doing anything.  The Self doesn't attach or renounce.  That's kind of an illusion.  This is why detachment is kind of a trap because the Self doesn't detach.  Egos detach.  It gets deep.  That's why there's all these pointers.  

Edited May 30 by Joseph Maynor

[James123]

22 minutes ago, Joseph Maynor said:

 

You're not really letting anything go though.  You're not doing anything.  The Self doesn't attach or renounce.  That's kind of an illusion.  This is why detachment is kind of a trap because the Self doesn't detach.  Egos detach.  It gets deep.  That's why there's all these pointers.  

This so much knowledge. İ don't really care, what self detach or attach i know what i am, i know any thought is an illusion. So rest is story. 

[Joseph Maynor]

1 hour ago, James123 said:

This so much knowledge. İ don't really care, what self detach or attach i know what i am, i know any thought is an illusion. So rest is story. 

 

If you get It it shouldn't matter.  There's no thorn in the craw or pebble in the shoe.  You're already at Peace. ❤️

Edited May 30 by Joseph Maynor

[James123]

36 minutes ago, Joseph Maynor said:

 

If you get It it shouldn't matter.  There's no thorn in the craw or pebble in the shoe.  You're already at Peace. ❤️

You are too brother ❤️ 🥂 

[Joseph Maynor]

On 5/28/2024 at 7:26 AM, Phil said:

Egocentric spirituality. 

Phil, respectfully, I think you're misunderstanding what I've been saying.  I'm suggesting the following: Samsara can be transcended, therefore Liberation or Moksha is available from egocentric spirituality.   I'm not saying Samsara is where One has to be seated -- to the contrary.  I'm suggesting that Samsara is an illusion and that One can be seated in the Self.  Samsara is where the Self is seated in the body and mind.  Liberation is where the Self is seated in the Self.  Egocentric spirituality would be thinking the Self is seated in the mind or the body, thus creating Samsara and the pains and pleasures that come with and through that ignorance.  Any spirituality in Samsara is going to be egocentric spirituality, I'm not suggesting going that route.  I'm suggesting Liberation from Samsara or Moksha.  That's where you get Your Love, Truth, Bliss, and even Play.

Edited June 2 by Joseph Maynor

[Joseph Maynor]

On 5/28/2024 at 7:42 AM, Mandy said:

Then crocodile twister is just crocodile twister, and you aren't highly suspicious of everyone trying to one up you all the time. 

 

This would be Witnessing Samsara from a Liberated perspective.  I want to make sure we're not mixing or conflating two different things.  (1) Samsara is suffering due to the Self being seated in the mind and the body.  That's where ego is not seen as amusement but as a kind of dog eat dog world.  I'm not suggesting anyone be seated in Samsara when I describe Samsara.  I'm not suggesting Samsara is as good as it gets like Schopenhauer or Camus do.  No, there's a second part of it where (2) You can rise above Samsara and become Liberated from that, which does bring out things like humor and Love and so on. 

Edited June 2 by Joseph Maynor

[Phil]

On 5/28/2024 at 9:30 AM, Phil said:

@Joseph Maynor

“The word gullible is not in the dictionary”. 

Can this claim be verified? Yes.

Check a dictionary and sure enough, there it is.

 

”There are crocodiles”.

In so far as the thought points to appearance (‘an appearance’), can it be verified? Yes. 

Go to Florida or a zoo.

 

”There are egos, which are / are like crocodiles”

In so far as the thought points to appearance (‘an appearance’), can it be verified? No.

 

Why?

 

On 5/28/2024 at 9:34 AM, Joseph Maynor said:

This is readily observable to me.  Observe the interactions on this forum as a microcosm.  But it works like this in all life.

 

2 hours ago, Joseph Maynor said:

Phil, respectfully, I think you're misunderstanding what I've been saying. 

 

On 5/28/2024 at 9:45 AM, Joseph Maynor said:

Egos are like crocodiles and want to win.

 

On 5/28/2024 at 10:09 AM, Joseph Maynor said:

@Phil See Phil now you're the crocodile coming to eat me.  See how this works?  You want to win.  This is all ego, the illusion, samsara,  It's how it works.  It's why samsara is samsara if you (or me) are attached to it.  It's the game of ego.  It's how it works.  The illusion is a set of crocodiles.  We'd have to deny the obvious not to see this.

 

Egocentric spirituality. 

[Joseph Maynor]

4 minutes ago, Phil said:

Egocentric spirituality. 

 

Are you suggesting your spirituality is not egocentric?  I don't see how spirituality which is stated in language could avoid being egocentric, since it is in the realm of ego.  I'm not taking this negatively if that's what you're suggesting.  Of course it's egocentric.  Joseph Maynor is an ego.  Phil is an ego. 

Edited June 2 by Joseph Maynor