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I don't know if this it's common, or 'just me', but for a long time I held this very discordant belief and I want to share a bit about it in case someone is struggling with something similar.

 

Basically, it's the belief or thought-story that to "get rid of fear", or to finally be happy, there would at some point have to be a moment of extreme or total fear or terror where I'd finally completely surrender or something like that, and then I'd be ready and free from trouble.

 

But that's just a thought, a belief. Ego propaganda.

 

Just bypass fear. Might sound nuts, but it is the way.

 

 

There must be an effortless way.

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Posted (edited)

Yeah, nothing to be free from, nowhere to get to. 

 

Also wdym by bypass fear? 

 

Feeling "fear" deeply simultaneously allows us to see the the Nothingness/Being prior to the spheres.

 

We see that there's actually no such thing as fear. 

Edited by Orb

"Mediocrity is gone. Mind is clear of limitation. I seek no state of enlightenment. Neither do I remain where no enlightenment exists. Since I linger in neither condition, eyes cannot see me. If hundreds of birds strew my path with flowers, such praise would be meaningless."

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35 minutes ago, Orb said:

Also wdym by bypass fear? 

 

I mean don't try to face or overcome it.

 

Run and hide, like a kid. When a child sees a nightmare, they don't try to be a man or face it or think that feeling fear means there is something wrong about them that needs to be fixed or changed.

 

38 minutes ago, Orb said:

Feeling "fear" deeply allows us to

 

Children don't think that they must feel it deeper to see what's prior to some god damn spheres either lol

 

 

There must be an effortless way.

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9 minutes ago, Blessed2 said:

 

I mean don't try to face or overcome it.

 

Run and hide, like a kid. When a child sees a nightmare, they don't try to be a man or face it or think that feeling fear means there is something wrong about them that needs to be fixed or changed.

This sounds like aversion though. The other night I actually woke up with heart racing and nightmarish thoughts arose. I saw that it's just another flavor of love and felt it deeply. It settled down after some time and I fell back asleep. 

 

The "running and hiding" imo is actually the beginning of aversion, then eventually the child learns to try running into experiences/drugs/etc.

 

If there's any sense of shame or any flavor of feeling like somethings wrong, there isnt, there's actually nothing wrong with a child "running away" from an unpleasant experience, it's still aversion though.

 

13 minutes ago, Blessed2 said:

Children don't think that they must feel it deeper to see what's prior to some god damn spheres either lol

But the assumption is that kids automatically "handle" nightmares and unpleasant experiences like a zen monk already. This is a mistaken notion imo. I've met children who are very much suffering and mind identified at a young age. Children aren't automatically pros with this alignment stuff. 

 

Anyone who has kids, I'd like to hear your experiences with your kids. Are they living free of suffering/aversion? 

"Mediocrity is gone. Mind is clear of limitation. I seek no state of enlightenment. Neither do I remain where no enlightenment exists. Since I linger in neither condition, eyes cannot see me. If hundreds of birds strew my path with flowers, such praise would be meaningless."

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Posted (edited)

It’s interesting that when you detach, that stuff, whatever stuff,  still happens.  You wonder whether your attachment is required for the stuff that happens.  Fear seems to be when you develop a belief that you’re controlling what happens and then you get scared that you might fail.  So it’s an overlay because really it all just happens on its own without any need of you interfering.  It doesn’t need a doer.  It functions without that.

Edited by Joseph Maynor

💬 🗯️🤍

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4 hours ago, Orb said:

This sounds like aversion though. The other night I actually woke up with heart racing and nightmarish thoughts arose. I saw that it's just another flavor of love and felt it deeply. It settled down after some time and I fell back asleep. 

 

The "running and hiding" imo is actually the beginning of aversion, then eventually the child learns to try running into experiences/drugs/etc.

 

If there's any sense of shame or any flavor of feeling like somethings wrong, there isnt, there's actually nothing wrong with a child "running away" from an unpleasant experience, it's still aversion though.

 

But the assumption is that kids automatically "handle" nightmares and unpleasant experiences like a zen monk already. This is a mistaken notion imo. I've met children who are very much suffering and mind identified at a young age. Children aren't automatically pros with this alignment stuff. 

 

Anyone who has kids, I'd like to hear your experiences with your kids. Are they living free of suffering/aversion? 

 

I dunno, we might be coming to this from a very different angle and use of language so it might be that we seem to disagree on the surface but actually mean the same thing.

 

"Running and hiding" in terms of adulthood would be very simply just focusing on something else and therein the discordant thought (that feels like fear) will settle. That's not aversion, it's listening to the guidance.

 

Aversion would be interpreting the fear as a weakness or "my fear" which needs to be faced or overcome, felt more, surrendered to or something.

 

The way I describe or frame this might just be kind of "just me" thing, cause I kinda have a history of being very confused with fear and it being reinforced by a certain "most awake spiritual teacher ever" lol

 

 

What comes to kids, I think some guy once said something about a Kingdom belonging to those who are like children. 🤔🤔

 

 

 

There must be an effortless way.

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16 hours ago, Blessed2 said:

 

I dunno, we might be coming to this from a very different angle and use of language so it might be that we seem to disagree on the surface but actually mean the same thing.

 

"Running and hiding" in terms of adulthood would be very simply just focusing on something else and therein the discordant thought (that feels like fear) will settle. That's not aversion, it's listening to the guidance.

 

Aversion would be interpreting the fear as a weakness or "my fear" which needs to be faced or overcome, felt more, surrendered to or something.

 

The way I describe or frame this might just be kind of "just me" thing, cause I kinda have a history of being very confused with fear and it being reinforced by a certain "most awake spiritual teacher ever" lol

 

 

What comes to kids, I think some guy once said something about a Kingdom belonging to those who are like children. 🤔🤔

 

 

Shifting focus can definitely help when it comes to beliefs. Just no longer giving those thoughts life with your focus will result in them settling down.

 

And I'm curious, what's your perception on fear? Did he who shall not be named share a belief with you on fear?

"Mediocrity is gone. Mind is clear of limitation. I seek no state of enlightenment. Neither do I remain where no enlightenment exists. Since I linger in neither condition, eyes cannot see me. If hundreds of birds strew my path with flowers, such praise would be meaningless."

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On 5/23/2024 at 1:26 PM, Orb said:

And I'm curious, what's your perception on fear? Did he who shall not be named share a belief with you on fear?

 

Yeah. The other bald guy reinforced what was probably already "programmed".

 

It's basically the confusion that fear is a quality of a separate self. "My fear". "My fear of this/that."

 

And that fear is some kind of a limiting factor, something that must be overcome. Like for example in Actualized terms, it is said that fear is the border or limiting factor between ego and god/truth/love. So that to get to god/truth/god, one must face and overcome one's fear.

 

Though I don't think that's only at Actualized. I see the same ideology of fear running around in the collective in general. On Actualized it's just in a very "distilled" form, like vodka or something. Like if the ego would come up with a form of it's "spirituality", it would be exactly like Actualized.

 

Then I took psychedelics and they pulled that belief to the surface in basically the most brutal way possible, which was that my life is a solipsistic dream, like a test where I must be fearless enough to get to truth by facing "the ultimate fear" of death by committing suicide.

 

That made it kind of simple in the end. There would either the ideology of "facing my fear", which would have been suicide, or fear is how certain thoughts feel, and there isn't a separate self. Bypass or die. Innocence is synonymous with bypassing.

 

 

There must be an effortless way.

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3 hours ago, Blessed2 said:

 

Yeah. The other bald guy reinforced what was probably already "programmed".

 

It's basically the confusion that fear is a quality of a separate self. "My fear". "My fear of this/that."

 

And that fear is some kind of a limiting factor, something that must be overcome. Like for example in Actualized terms, it is said that fear is the border or limiting factor between ego and god/truth/love. So that to get to god/truth/god, one must face and overcome one's fear.

 

Though I don't think that's only at Actualized. I see the same ideology of fear running around in the collective in general. On Actualized it's just in a very "distilled" form, like vodka or something. Like if the ego would come up with a form of it's "spirituality", it would be exactly like Actualized.

 

Then I took psychedelics and they pulled that belief to the surface in basically the most brutal way possible, which was that my life is a solipsistic dream, like a test where I must be fearless enough to get to truth by facing "the ultimate fear" of death by committing suicide.

 

That made it kind of simple in the end. There would either the ideology of "facing my fear", which would have been suicide, or fear is how certain thoughts feel, and there isn't a separate self. Bypass or die. Innocence is synonymous with bypassing.

 

The fear of the separate self is aversion. 

 

Adrenaline rush, nervousness, etc. are natural responses, yet there's no actual fear in it at all. 

 

You're good, there's no need to face any fear, although you can feel it and be okay with it. 

 

I often emphasize feeling emotion because you will see that Love is actually feeling you, and not the other way around.

"Mediocrity is gone. Mind is clear of limitation. I seek no state of enlightenment. Neither do I remain where no enlightenment exists. Since I linger in neither condition, eyes cannot see me. If hundreds of birds strew my path with flowers, such praise would be meaningless."

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On 5/21/2024 at 7:38 PM, Blessed2 said:

Just bypass fear. Might sound nuts, but it is the way.

 This is spiritual bypassing. All of the examples which could otherwise seem to support this idea are erroneous as they’re all based on spiritual bypassing and are avoidance & suppression. That there isn’t a separate self is liberation, what is, what is already the case and is not a separate self dying. 

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Posted (edited)
9 minutes ago, Phil said:

This is spiritual bypassing.

 

No it is not.

 

Focusing on something else than the content of thoughts, such as the breath for example, is not spiritual bypassing.

 

Edited by Blessed2

 

There must be an effortless way.

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1 minute ago, Blessed2 said:

Focusing on something else than the content of thoughts, such as the breath for example, is not spiritual bypassing.

Agreed. 

 

On 5/21/2024 at 7:38 PM, Blessed2 said:

Just bypass fear. Might sound nuts, but it is the way.

Spiritual bypassing. 

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2 minutes ago, Phil said:

"Just bypass fear" is like a sheep pretending to be a lion by avoiding fear.

 

Nope, it is the recognition that lion is already a lion and the thoughts that feel like fear and unworthiness are thoughts about being a sheep.

 

"Avoiding"? Did I stumble on the wrong forum now?

 

7 minutes ago, Phil said:

Avoidance & denial isn’t transformation or self-recognition. 

 

How bout not stepping in the same hole over and over again?

 

 

"Feel fully", "acknowledge", "be in the present" etc. What a way to gather a bunch partial feelers, non-acknowledgers and not-in-the-present-be-ers. Didn't even know that not feeling fully is possible before I got this advice. Been practicing feeling fully like 5 hours a day recently.

 

 

There must be an effortless way.

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