THE TEN OX-HERDING STAGES OF ZEN

[limitless lucidity]

Isn't the THE TEN OX-HERDING STAGES OF ZEN based on a separate self? 

 

The Belief that there is a one who goes through stages is an illusion

Edited May 19, 2024 by limitless lucidity

[Orb]

1 hour ago, limitless lucidity said:

Isn't the THE TEN OX-HERDING STAGES OF ZEN based on a separate self? 

 

The Belief that there is a one who goes through stages is an illusion

It's a slippery slope for sure. There are some egomaniacs out there who obsess over stages and identify with being the highest stage of whatever consciousness or ox model. 

 

BUT, in my experience, there are definitely "stages" on this path for sure. While it's easy to make the conclusion of oh well there's no separate self so there's no one to go through stages of awakening/realization. This conclusion is purely conceptual. For example, has it REALLY been seen that there is no self? Or are we using the "there's no separate self" line to bypass doing the work? 

[limitless lucidity]

1 hour ago, Orb said:

bypass doing the work? 

 

Work??

 

LMAO

[Joseph Maynor]

8 hours ago, Orb said:

It's a slippery slope for sure. There are some egomaniacs out there who obsess over stages and identify with being the highest stage of whatever consciousness or ox model. 

 

BUT, in my experience, there are definitely "stages" on this path for sure. While it's easy to make the conclusion of oh well there's no separate self so there's no one to go through stages of awakening/realization. This conclusion is purely conceptual. For example, has it REALLY been seen that there is no self? Or are we using the "there's no separate self" line to bypass doing the work? 

I agree with you.  I look at it like there are different places for integration on the path.  It's not a linear thing although over time progress accrues if one keeps at it. 

Edited May 20, 2024 by Joseph Maynor

[Orb]

1 hour ago, limitless lucidity said:

 

Work??

 

LMAO

Yes....work. 

 

I've experienced what you're experiencing before, there was a time when the word "work" made me feel uncomfortable on the path. It can be very offputting to hear of that on the path at some point.

[Orb]

@limitless lucidity if it makes you feel better....the work is effortless once you do it. 

[Orb]

7 minutes ago, Joseph Maynor said:

I agree with you.  I look at it like there are different places for integration on the path.  It's not a linear thing although over time progress accrues if one keeps at it.

Strangely enough ime it's perfectly linear for me at least. It's strangely accurate lol. Like a wink from myself. 

[ConsciousDreamer666]

because is not the separate self who goes through the steps! Is the Infinite Being which does!

 

Is the process of discovering itself beyond the imagined limitations/identity of the body-character.

 

As they say usually in this forum is 'coming home'. 

[limitless lucidity]

2 hours ago, Orb said:

I've experienced what you're experiencing before

 

Faulty analogy Fallacy 

 

Anecdotal Fallacy

Edited May 20, 2024 by limitless lucidity

[limitless lucidity]

38 minutes ago, ConsciousDreamer666 said:

because is not the separate self who goes through the steps! Is the Infinite Being which does!

 

"Infinite Being goes through steps " this is one of the most top 10 stupidest things I have ever heard

 

 

[Orb]

2 hours ago, limitless lucidity said:

 

Faulty analogy Fallacy 

 

Anecdotal Fallacy

Spiritually bypassing fallacy

[Blessed2]

Harry Potter could go on for a spiritual path and progress along the steps of zen or spiral dynamics. Voldemort could stay where Voldemort is and keep the insane egocentric violent mindset.

 

But the truth keeps on being the truth. Both are but characters and thus equally unreal.

 

[limitless lucidity]

55 minutes ago, Orb said:

Spiritually bypassing fallacy

 

LMAO nice way to suppress your ignorance is everyone on this forum like that? 

 

The level of ignorance is insane. don't worry " I've experienced what you're experiencing before there was a time when my ignorance made me feel like I didn't know wtf I was talking about "It just takes "work" not to be ignorant.

 

 

 

I want to make a note for future posts, those people don't comment on any of my posts or mention me: Orb, ConsciousDreamer666, and Joseph Maynor.

 

Thanks.

 

 

 

 

 

Edited May 20, 2024 by limitless lucidity

[Orb]

24 minutes ago, limitless lucidity said:

 

LMAO nice way to suppress your ignorance is everyone on this forum like that? 

 

The level of ignorance is insane. don't worry " I've experienced what you're experiencing before there was a time when my ignorance made me feel like I didn't know wtf I was talking about "It just takes "work" not to be ignorant.

 

 

 

I want to make a note for future posts, those people don't comment on any of my posts or mention me: Orb, ConsciousDreamer666, and Joseph Maynor.

 

Thanks.

Sorry brotha...you gotta put in the work. 🤷🏽‍♂️

[Blessed2]

1 hour ago, Orb said:

Spiritually bypassing fallacy

 

That "spiritual bypassing" is the way.

 

The ego is the assumption that truth would be too good to be true:

 

12 minutes ago, Orb said:

Sorry brotha...you gotta put in the work.

 

Why "sorry"? What are you apologizing for?

 

[Orb]

8 minutes ago, Blessed2 said:

 

That "spiritual bypassing" is the way.

 

The ego is the assumption that truth would be too good to be true:

It is not the way. It's not enough to understand the idea that the separate self is an illusion. There's deeper equnimity and emotional work to be done. 

 

From a certain lens this can seem off-putting or like a form of "this isn't enough, I gotta do more work to be happy", if this is what you think I'm saying it is not at all the case.

[Orb]

25 minutes ago, Blessed2 said:

Why "sorry"? What are you apologizing for?

I used sorry kinda like "I hate to break it to you". 

[Phil]

11 hours ago, limitless lucidity said:

Isn't the THE TEN OX-HERDING STAGES OF ZEN based on a separate self? 

 

The Belief that there is a one who goes through stages is an illusion

Exactly!

 

1 hour ago, limitless lucidity said:

 

LMAO nice way to suppress your ignorance is everyone on this forum like that? 

 

The level of ignorance is insane. don't worry " I've experienced what you're experiencing before there was a time when my ignorance made me feel like I didn't know wtf I was talking about "It just takes "work" not to be ignorant.

 

 

 

I want to make a note for future posts, those people don't comment on any of my posts or mention me: Orb, ConsciousDreamer666, and Joseph Maynor.

 

Thanks.

 

 

 

 

 

The illusion of ignorance. 

[Blessed2]

Wide is the gate and broad is the way that leads to destruction, and many enter through it. But small is the gate and narrow the way that leads to life, and only a few find it.

 

23 minutes ago, Orb said:

"I hate to break it to you". 

 

So you can sense it's bad news too?

 

Why would anyone hate or apologize for offering good news?

 

Edited May 20, 2024 by Blessed2

[Orb]

5 minutes ago, Blessed2 said:

So you can sense it's bad news too?

 

Why would anyone hate or apologize for offering good news?

 

I'm being cheeky, it's great news, although for the ego....