limitless lucidity Posted May 19 Share Posted May 19 (edited) Isn't the THE TEN OX-HERDING STAGES OF ZEN based on a separate self? The Belief that there is a one who goes through stages is an illusion Edited May 19 by limitless lucidity Quote Mention Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orb Posted May 20 Share Posted May 20 1 hour ago, limitless lucidity said: Isn't the THE TEN OX-HERDING STAGES OF ZEN based on a separate self? The Belief that there is a one who goes through stages is an illusion It's a slippery slope for sure. There are some egomaniacs out there who obsess over stages and identify with being the highest stage of whatever consciousness or ox model. BUT, in my experience, there are definitely "stages" on this path for sure. While it's easy to make the conclusion of oh well there's no separate self so there's no one to go through stages of awakening/realization. This conclusion is purely conceptual. For example, has it REALLY been seen that there is no self? Or are we using the "there's no separate self" line to bypass doing the work? Quote Mention "Mediocrity is gone. Mind is clear of limitation. I seek no state of enlightenment. Neither do I remain where no enlightenment exists. Since I linger in neither condition, eyes cannot see me. If hundreds of birds strew my path with flowers, such praise would be meaningless." - A Comment on the 8th Ox Herding Picture Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
limitless lucidity Posted May 20 Author Share Posted May 20 1 hour ago, Orb said: bypass doing the work? Work?? LMAO Quote Mention Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joseph Maynor Posted May 20 Share Posted May 20 (edited) 8 hours ago, Orb said: It's a slippery slope for sure. There are some egomaniacs out there who obsess over stages and identify with being the highest stage of whatever consciousness or ox model. BUT, in my experience, there are definitely "stages" on this path for sure. While it's easy to make the conclusion of oh well there's no separate self so there's no one to go through stages of awakening/realization. This conclusion is purely conceptual. For example, has it REALLY been seen that there is no self? Or are we using the "there's no separate self" line to bypass doing the work? I agree with you. I look at it like there are different places for integration on the path. It's not a linear thing although over time progress accrues if one keeps at it. Edited May 20 by Joseph Maynor Quote Mention 💬 🗯️🤍 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orb Posted May 20 Share Posted May 20 1 hour ago, limitless lucidity said: Work?? LMAO Yes....work. I've experienced what you're experiencing before, there was a time when the word "work" made me feel uncomfortable on the path. It can be very offputting to hear of that on the path at some point. Quote Mention "Mediocrity is gone. Mind is clear of limitation. I seek no state of enlightenment. Neither do I remain where no enlightenment exists. Since I linger in neither condition, eyes cannot see me. If hundreds of birds strew my path with flowers, such praise would be meaningless." - A Comment on the 8th Ox Herding Picture Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orb Posted May 20 Share Posted May 20 @limitless lucidity if it makes you feel better....the work is effortless once you do it. Quote Mention "Mediocrity is gone. Mind is clear of limitation. I seek no state of enlightenment. Neither do I remain where no enlightenment exists. Since I linger in neither condition, eyes cannot see me. If hundreds of birds strew my path with flowers, such praise would be meaningless." - A Comment on the 8th Ox Herding Picture Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orb Posted May 20 Share Posted May 20 7 minutes ago, Joseph Maynor said: I agree with you. I look at it like there are different places for integration on the path. It's not a linear thing although over time progress accrues if one keeps at it. Strangely enough ime it's perfectly linear for me at least. It's strangely accurate lol. Like a wink from myself. Quote Mention "Mediocrity is gone. Mind is clear of limitation. I seek no state of enlightenment. Neither do I remain where no enlightenment exists. Since I linger in neither condition, eyes cannot see me. If hundreds of birds strew my path with flowers, such praise would be meaningless." - A Comment on the 8th Ox Herding Picture Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ConsciousDreamer666 Posted May 20 Share Posted May 20 because is not the separate self who goes through the steps! Is the Infinite Being which does! Is the process of discovering itself beyond the imagined limitations/identity of the body-character. As they say usually in this forum is 'coming home'. Quote Mention Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
limitless lucidity Posted May 20 Author Share Posted May 20 (edited) 2 hours ago, Orb said: I've experienced what you're experiencing before Faulty analogy Fallacy Anecdotal Fallacy Edited May 20 by limitless lucidity Quote Mention Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
limitless lucidity Posted May 20 Author Share Posted May 20 38 minutes ago, ConsciousDreamer666 said: because is not the separate self who goes through the steps! Is the Infinite Being which does! "Infinite Being goes through steps " this is one of the most top 10 stupidest things I have ever heard Quote Mention Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orb Posted May 20 Share Posted May 20 2 hours ago, limitless lucidity said: Faulty analogy Fallacy Anecdotal Fallacy Spiritually bypassing fallacy Quote Mention "Mediocrity is gone. Mind is clear of limitation. I seek no state of enlightenment. Neither do I remain where no enlightenment exists. Since I linger in neither condition, eyes cannot see me. If hundreds of birds strew my path with flowers, such praise would be meaningless." - A Comment on the 8th Ox Herding Picture Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blessed2 Posted May 20 Share Posted May 20 Harry Potter could go on for a spiritual path and progress along the steps of zen or spiral dynamics. Voldemort could stay where Voldemort is and keep the insane egocentric violent mindset. But the truth keeps on being the truth. Both are but characters and thus equally unreal. Quote Mention I am the playful and ever-present Source, joyfully embracing every thought and emotion as part of my perfect, unfolding co-creative dream. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
limitless lucidity Posted May 20 Author Share Posted May 20 (edited) 55 minutes ago, Orb said: Spiritually bypassing fallacy LMAO nice way to suppress your ignorance is everyone on this forum like that? The level of ignorance is insane. don't worry " I've experienced what you're experiencing before there was a time when my ignorance made me feel like I didn't know wtf I was talking about "It just takes "work" not to be ignorant. I want to make a note for future posts, those people don't comment on any of my posts or mention me: Orb, ConsciousDreamer666, and Joseph Maynor. Thanks. Edited May 20 by limitless lucidity Quote Mention Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orb Posted May 20 Share Posted May 20 24 minutes ago, limitless lucidity said: LMAO nice way to suppress your ignorance is everyone on this forum like that? The level of ignorance is insane. don't worry " I've experienced what you're experiencing before there was a time when my ignorance made me feel like I didn't know wtf I was talking about "It just takes "work" not to be ignorant. I want to make a note for future posts, those people don't comment on any of my posts or mention me: Orb, ConsciousDreamer666, and Joseph Maynor. Thanks. Sorry brotha...you gotta put in the work. 🤷🏽♂️ Quote Mention "Mediocrity is gone. Mind is clear of limitation. I seek no state of enlightenment. Neither do I remain where no enlightenment exists. Since I linger in neither condition, eyes cannot see me. If hundreds of birds strew my path with flowers, such praise would be meaningless." - A Comment on the 8th Ox Herding Picture Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blessed2 Posted May 20 Share Posted May 20 1 hour ago, Orb said: Spiritually bypassing fallacy That "spiritual bypassing" is the way. The ego is the assumption that truth would be too good to be true: 12 minutes ago, Orb said: Sorry brotha...you gotta put in the work. Why "sorry"? What are you apologizing for? Quote Mention I am the playful and ever-present Source, joyfully embracing every thought and emotion as part of my perfect, unfolding co-creative dream. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orb Posted May 20 Share Posted May 20 8 minutes ago, Blessed2 said: That "spiritual bypassing" is the way. The ego is the assumption that truth would be too good to be true: It is not the way. It's not enough to understand the idea that the separate self is an illusion. There's deeper equnimity and emotional work to be done. From a certain lens this can seem off-putting or like a form of "this isn't enough, I gotta do more work to be happy", if this is what you think I'm saying it is not at all the case. Quote Mention "Mediocrity is gone. Mind is clear of limitation. I seek no state of enlightenment. Neither do I remain where no enlightenment exists. Since I linger in neither condition, eyes cannot see me. If hundreds of birds strew my path with flowers, such praise would be meaningless." - A Comment on the 8th Ox Herding Picture Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orb Posted May 20 Share Posted May 20 25 minutes ago, Blessed2 said: Why "sorry"? What are you apologizing for? I used sorry kinda like "I hate to break it to you". Quote Mention "Mediocrity is gone. Mind is clear of limitation. I seek no state of enlightenment. Neither do I remain where no enlightenment exists. Since I linger in neither condition, eyes cannot see me. If hundreds of birds strew my path with flowers, such praise would be meaningless." - A Comment on the 8th Ox Herding Picture Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Posted May 20 Share Posted May 20 11 hours ago, limitless lucidity said: Isn't the THE TEN OX-HERDING STAGES OF ZEN based on a separate self? The Belief that there is a one who goes through stages is an illusion Exactly! 1 hour ago, limitless lucidity said: LMAO nice way to suppress your ignorance is everyone on this forum like that? The level of ignorance is insane. don't worry " I've experienced what you're experiencing before there was a time when my ignorance made me feel like I didn't know wtf I was talking about "It just takes "work" not to be ignorant. I want to make a note for future posts, those people don't comment on any of my posts or mention me: Orb, ConsciousDreamer666, and Joseph Maynor. Thanks. The illusion of ignorance. Quote Mention YouTube Website Sessions Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blessed2 Posted May 20 Share Posted May 20 (edited) Wide is the gate and broad is the way that leads to destruction, and many enter through it. But small is the gate and narrow the way that leads to life, and only a few find it. 23 minutes ago, Orb said: "I hate to break it to you". So you can sense it's bad news too? Why would anyone hate or apologize for offering good news? Edited May 20 by Blessed2 Quote Mention I am the playful and ever-present Source, joyfully embracing every thought and emotion as part of my perfect, unfolding co-creative dream. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orb Posted May 20 Share Posted May 20 5 minutes ago, Blessed2 said: So you can sense it's bad news too? Why would anyone hate or apologize for offering good news? I'm being cheeky, it's great news, although for the ego.... Quote Mention "Mediocrity is gone. Mind is clear of limitation. I seek no state of enlightenment. Neither do I remain where no enlightenment exists. Since I linger in neither condition, eyes cannot see me. If hundreds of birds strew my path with flowers, such praise would be meaningless." - A Comment on the 8th Ox Herding Picture Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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