Can the knot be untied?

[A Tim]

There appears to be a knot that perpetuates a feeling of there being a "someone" here. The nexus of the apparent goings-on. 

 

I don't mean a sense that the world is happening to "a me", or that some person said something "to me" or that sense. As far as the tendency to be offended or think God hates me and, thus, I have this problem. Not that kind of thing. 

 

I mean the sense of there being "a me" at all. 

 

It seems to manifest as thoughts in the form of a voice very similar to the one I use engaging with others... except it appears only I hear it.  The sense of it is that it is in the general area of the head, upward and behind the eyes, say.

 

That knot. It really makes it seem as though there is "a someone" here. A someone to whom the voice speaks, narrates, sings to... such and so forth. It chimes along as I read, though it doesn't really appear necessary. I can see words without saying them in the head. 

 

If that voice were quieted to silence, I'm not sure there would be much of a reference point anymore (if any). Which would appear to be the silencing of what makes it seem as though there's "a me" here. 

 

 

[Mandy]

It's not a knot, it's a not. Can a not be untied? 

[A Tim]

39 minutes ago, Mandy said:

It's not a knot, it's a not. Can a not be untied? 

Well... ok. No, and I can't have the unicorn escape because I forgot to latch the paddock. 

 

The voice really gives an impression of a me engaging in whatever. Plus, it narrates it for the most part. Come on. Loosen up, narrator. 

 

One time, it stopped for a half hour or so. It was absolute clarity; there's nobody really here. The arms were doing arm things, the legs were doing leg things, the truck was unlocking itself and then driving itself. In a way, it was like being Zelda, say. I'm not sure how to put it. It was most definitely what was pointed to as a peace that surpasses all understanding. 

Edited April 1 by A Tim

[Phil]

2 hours ago, A Tim said:

There appears to be a knot that perpetuates a feeling of there being a "someone" here. The nexus of the apparent goings-on. 

Is there the feeling of (there being someone here) or is there the thought, and maybe how the thoughts feels?

In short, what is “a feeling”? 

 

2 hours ago, A Tim said:

I mean the sense of there being "a me" at all. 

What is ‘the sense’? Sensation, senses as in perception (seeing, hearing, etc)…?

 

2 hours ago, A Tim said:

 

It seems to manifest as thoughts in the form of a voice very similar to the one I use engaging with others... except it appears only I hear it.  The sense of it is that it is in the general area of the head, upward and behind the eyes, say.

If thought(s), is thought an “it”?

Likewise… “form of a voice”? 

 

Thoughts are of the lens-sphere. Audible voices are of the world-sphere.

Thoughts can of course be audible, visual, etc. 

 

On your behalf is it really heard, or directly experienced as thought(s)?

 

2 hours ago, A Tim said:

 

That knot. It really makes it seem as though there is "a someone" here. A someone to whom the voice speaks, narrates, sings to... such and so forth. It chimes along as I read, though it doesn't really appear necessary. I can see words without saying them in the head. 

Could ‘it’ be thoughts, and awareness aware of? 

 

2 hours ago, A Tim said:

 

If that voice were quieted to silence, I'm not sure there would be much of a reference point anymore (if any). Which would appear to be the silencing of what makes it seem as though there's "a me" here. 

‘Anymore’ sounds like time / thought, content wise, about a second or separate self (a self in time).

 

Is there a reference point?

And was there a reference point? 

[Orb]

3 hours ago, A Tim said:

There appears to be a knot that perpetuates a feeling of there being a "someone" here. The nexus of the apparent goings-on. 

 

I don't mean a sense that the world is happening to "a me", or that some person said something "to me" or that sense. As far as the tendency to be offended or think God hates me and, thus, I have this problem. Not that kind of thing. 

 

I mean the sense of there being "a me" at all. 

 

It seems to manifest as thoughts in the form of a voice very similar to the one I use engaging with others... except it appears only I hear it.  The sense of it is that it is in the general area of the head, upward and behind the eyes, say.

 

That knot. It really makes it seem as though there is "a someone" here. A someone to whom the voice speaks, narrates, sings to... such and so forth. It chimes along as I read, though it doesn't really appear necessary. I can see words without saying them in the head. 

 

If that voice were quieted to silence, I'm not sure there would be much of a reference point anymore (if any). Which would appear to be the silencing of what makes it seem as though there's "a me" here. 

 

 

I think you're feeling more deeply into what's been called the "I Am" sense.

 

Apparently Nisargaddata said the I Am sense is actually the seed-illusion of the separate self. 

[Orb]

@A Tim

 

 

[Jonas Long]

I don't think there's anything necessarily invalid about the collection of thoughts and feelings and qualities that consist of what "you" apparently identify with most closely or consistently, it's just you're not limited to them, and there isn't an actual boundary between those apparent things and all others.  

[A Tim]

10 hours ago, Phil said:

On your behalf is it really heard, or directly experienced as thought(s)?

They are audible thoughts experienced. 

 

10 hours ago, Phil said:

Could ‘it’ be thoughts, and awareness aware of? 

Could what I'm referring to as the knot be thoughts and awareness of the audible thoughts? Yes. For some reason, the awareness of the audible thoughts brings a further belief that there's someone (me) aware of them. It's a perspective thing, maybe? There is a screen within view of this perspective. Seeing it happens. There's not as much draw to jump to "I" am seeing this screen. It's more that there's just a screen and a perspective. The screen or the view of it isn't "for me." 

 

This habit of the audible thoughts has a belief built in that those thoughts are "for me," perhaps. They appear more intimate because of it, and the urge to listen stronger, therefore. 

11 hours ago, Phil said:

Is there a reference point?

And was there a reference point?

There appears to be a reference point as to where the thoughts occur within this experience; in what one would conventionally refer to as the head. The audible thoughts are accompanied by sensation, also.. almost very subtle movement/motion.. similar to moving an arm, but less obvious. 

 

I don't know if there is a reference point. There is some kind of reference point "here" but I couldn't really give you any kind of coordinates or effectively point to it. Maybe there's not much of a reference point.

 

The audible thoughts appearing definitely give some regularity and consistency to experience, which makes the presence of a reference point seem so. I say seem, because the audible thoughts and awareness thereof gives the texture of a narrator, catalog-er, specific observer. That becomes the reference point, perhaps... the apparent narrator. Without a narrator, there would most definitely be no reference point. 

[A Tim]

10 hours ago, Jonas Long said:

I don't think there's anything necessarily invalid about the collection of thoughts and feelings and qualities that consist of what "you" apparently identify with most closely or consistently, it's just you're not limited to them, and there isn't an actual boundary between those apparent things and all others.  

I wouldn't say it's invalid. There's just something uncomfortable about it. 

[Jonas Long]

3 hours ago, A Tim said:

I wouldn't say it's invalid. There's just something uncomfortable about it. 

Is it uncomfortable in and of itself, or is resisting it, or feeling like it's bad to be identifying with it uncomfortable?  Could you ever feel comfortable without the idea or possibility of discomfort?  Is this thought more important than the next one?  

[Phil]

4 hours ago, A Tim said:

They are audible thoughts experienced. 

Yep.

[A Tim]

10 hours ago, Jonas Long said:

Is it uncomfortable in and of itself, or is resisting it, or feeling like it's bad to be identifying with it uncomfortable?

I dunno. It appears to be uncomfortable just because it is. It doesn't feel like it jives with what is somehow, so it uncomfortable. 

[A Tim]

9 hours ago, Phil said:

Yep.

So is this meant to be intellectual? I grasp the premise intellectually, but in experience, the thoughts chatter along. I thought they were silence-able.

[Jonas Long]

21 minutes ago, A Tim said:

I dunno. It appears to be uncomfortable just because it is. It doesn't feel like it jives with what is somehow, so it uncomfortable. 

Then the only "problem"  I guess is the thought that it doesn't jive, because everything's jiving with what is anyway, it can't not.   I'm not sure, but maybe just the thought that it's off is what's uncomfortable.

[Phil]

1 hour ago, A Tim said:

So is this meant to be intellectual?

No, definitely not. 

1 hour ago, A Tim said:

I grasp the premise intellectually, but in experience, the thoughts chatter along. I thought they were silence-able.

On whose behalf are these thoughts? Who grasps, knows there is experience and what’s in experience, knows thoughts chatter along (over time). 

Who thinks or thought that thoughts were silence-able? A radio is silence-able. 

 

Thought is more like a hand writing about how to come to rest. 

[A Tim]

9 minutes ago, Phil said:

Thought is more like a hand writing about how to come to rest. 

yet the hand can come to rest. Through.... what means?

 

How to relax the hand from writing?

 

I don't at all disagree this is just thinking - but without that thinking there would be totally nada. I'm down with that. Why not? Give it a rip. 

Edited April 3 by A Tim

[Phil]

@A Tim

As far as writing, anything other than writing. Any means is writing. 

[Orb]

13 minutes ago, Phil said:

Thought is more like a hand writing about how to come to rest. 

I was walking the other day and thoughts were coming up about how to feel emotion/sensation, and I saw the irony...

[A Tim]

13 minutes ago, Phil said:

@A Tim

As far as writing, anything other than writing. Any means is writing. 

Ok. Thank you. I'll try it. 

[Jane]

On 4/1/2024 at 8:28 PM, A Tim said:

There appears to be a knot that perpetuates a feeling of there being a "someone" here.

 

 

The 'thought' (idea) of a 'someone' here is conceived as a thought/ concept; heard as and through the word itself. The word is then seemingly taken to be a literal real entity.

What IT IS that does apparently seem to be a 'someone' who can conceive the idea of itself as a 'somebody' in and of itself cannot be conceived of because the only thing known to knowing are temporal finite concepts within infinite beingness or oneness. This sense of knowing  seems to be about being other than what is always being infinite being; which is an illusory other  As never the twain shall meet.