Why is reality "dense " ?

[Someone here]

This is something that is botherin me  recently..to be more specific from about a year ago . I started to feel full of life .it's like as if I'm 90 years old or something.  Not feeling comfortable in my own skin. Wishing to die and to leave this dense ..flesh and bones meat suit that I'm wearing  which is called my body .

Why this reality we are living in is "dense " ? Why is it "massive "(as in has a  big chunk of mass or weight to it )? Why are we made of gross dense physical bodies instead of ethereal bodies made of light like how the angels are made from according to the Bible and the Qur’an ?

I'm struggling to articulate this but I hope someone here can intuit what I'm driving at and help me out with either accepting this gross physical reality we live in or explain why is it the case that reality is not more  lighter than it is .

Thanks !

Edited January 30 by Someone here

[Someone here]

I posted this on actualized.org as well. Because its important to me.

[Joseph Maynor]

You become what you think about.  Law of Attraction.  You're gobbling up a lot of thoughts online and it's impacting your life.  You have to take control over which thoughts you cling to and know that reality will mirror those back to you.  Reality likes to almost mock people who hold strong ideas and create a version of reality that suits them almost to teach them a lesson.  This is why I find that an empty mind is actually very refreshing because you can stay open to reality without it coming after you to try to mirror you or teach you a lesson.  But then again, it's good to be taught a lesson if you have ears to hear it.  Very few people understand this in my experience; namely, that reality is a teacher on some level.  If reality weren't a teacher most likely people wouldn't feel the impulse to change.  We feel it.  Most people just don't know what it is or why it's happening.  It's almost like reality is saying -- alright dude, go ahead and run with that one and let's see what happens with you and how you react and grow from that position to a different one.  Reality is the Great Teacher.  This insight came to me a few years ago and it changed my entire attitude about what I do.  You can call it Karma but it's a wider concept than that word is normally used.  It's a kind of mirroring and then making you live your beliefs and see how that affects you.  It's like, ok you believe that, let's see what happens for real when you believe that.  Now what?  That's kind of the dialogue between a person and reality.  It's like you're free to be but there are consequences in "how you be" so to speak.  Karma is real, and on some level people get their just deserts, they get to lay in the bed that they chose to lay in.  But notice that reality always gives you the chance to change anew and be forgiven as well.  You can see how Christians picked up a lot on this, but I think it's deeper than religion in my opinion.

Edited January 30 by Joseph Maynor

[Phil]

Honesty, integrity. 

[Someone here]

@Joseph Maynor if you think I'm gonna read all that you are so fooling yourself. 

 

@Phil wah? 

[Phil]

18 minutes ago, Someone here said:

wah? 

As in… a year ago, my body, density, mass, light, physical reality, etc… in honesty, or, with integrity… the actual experience is of thoughts, or, these thoughts.

[Someone here]

2 minutes ago, Phil said:

As in… a year ago, my body, density, mass, light, physical reality, etc… in honesty, or, with integrity… the actual experience is of thoughts, or, these thoughts.

I'm not sure .it's tricky .appreciate if you help me out .

I don't think that I can pass through a steel wall just by not thinking it is a steel wall. "Steel wall " is a label ..I get ya..but still its there and it dense and I can't pass through it. 

Please let's be realistic here..no amount of calling things "just mere thoughts " Is going to change our experience of this physical reality . We are not made of matter though ..I get that .we are made of consciousness. But consciousness can be like water ..liquid or ice or vapor.  Consciousness in this current incarnation is appearing/taking the form of a dense physical world. 

[Phil]

20 minutes ago, Someone here said:

I'm not sure .it's tricky .appreciate if you help me out .

For sure man. 

 

20 minutes ago, Someone here said:

I don't think that I can pass through a steel wall just by not thinking it is a steel wall. "Steel wall " is a label ..I get ya..but still its there and it dense and I can't pass through it. 

With integrity, I’m not suggesting ‘steel wall’ is a label. Just that there is an experience of the thought, ‘steel wall’. 

If in honesty ‘steel wall’ is a thought experienced, then there is no question about if you could pass through it (a thought). 

 

20 minutes ago, Someone here said:

Please let's be realistic here..no amount of calling things "just mere thoughts "

I said the actual experience is of thoughts, or, these thoughts.

 

With respect, just to clarify… I’m not saying “calling things”… and I’m not saying “just mere thoughts”.

 

20 minutes ago, Someone here said:

Is going to change our experience of this physical reality .

‘Physical reality’ is also a thought experienced. 

But again, I don’t mean in any ‘you’re imagining it’ way, just that it is an experience of a thought, or that thought. 

 

20 minutes ago, Someone here said:

We are not made of matter though ..I get that .we are made of consciousness. But consciousness can be like water ..liquid or ice or vapor.  Consciousness in this current incarnation is appearing/taking the form of a dense physical world. 

Not to ‘beat a dead horse’, but there can be an experience of many thoughts about consciousness being not consciousness / or becoming something other than consciousness, and the experience is actually of thoughts, or those thoughts, like matter, form, etc. 

 

For safe measure 😅I’m not saying there’s anything wrong or bad or anything like that about saying consciousness is something other than consciousness, only that consciousness is infinite. 

[Joseph Maynor]

To dissect an insight is like breaking apart an artwork thinking that if you understand the relation of the parts that you can capture the whole.  I notice people doing this with the piecemeal picking apart method of singling out certain sentences and commenting on each one as it's alone.  No, the whole insight is a thing too.  And it doesn't come from you entirely if it's an insight.  You wrote it down, you recorded it.  It depends, but I'm just warning against this method which I see is popular on online forums.  It's the idea that we can solve a problem by breaking it down into component parts.  That method has limitations to it.  That's all I'm saying here.  Beware or Be-aware -- it's weird that these two words are so similar.

Edited January 30 by Joseph Maynor

[Someone here]

11 minutes ago, Phil said:

With integrity, I’m not suggesting ‘steel wall’ is a label. Just that there is an experience of the thought, ‘steel wall’. 

If in honesty ‘steel wall’ is a thought experienced, then there is no question about if you could pass through it (a thought). 

Where do you draw the line my dude ?

Like a line that is thought land ...and If you pass it you are in actuality land.?

"Steel wall " is a thought RIGHT NOW for me because there is no experience of a steel wall for me right this second.  But if I'm actually in front of a steel wall ..then it's obviously not just a thought .its a physical object..like DUH! ...it doesn't get more obvious than this .

16 minutes ago, Phil said:

I said the actual experience is of thoughts, or, these thoughts.

 

With respect, just to clarify… I’m not saying “calling things”… and I’m not saying “just mere thoughts”.

Semantics. 

17 minutes ago, Phil said:

Physical reality’ is also a thought experienced. 

Same as the point about the steel wall being a thought or not .

17 minutes ago, Phil said:

Not to ‘beat a dead horse’, but there can be an experience of many thoughts about consciousness being not consciousness / or becoming something other than consciousness, and the experience is actually of thoughts, or those thoughts, like matter, form, etc. 

 

For safe measure 😅I’m not saying there’s anything wrong or bad or anything like that about saying consciousness is something other than consciousness, only that consciousness is infinite. 

Let me ask you a question:

is consciousness one or many or neither or both ?

[Someone here]

@Joseph Maynor meta man.

[Joseph Maynor]

I think we should share the discoursing on Actualized on the identical issue here for completeness.  People need the whole context to make a reasonable judgment.  See link below.

https://www.actualized.org/forum/topic/99064-why-is-this-reality-dense/

Edited January 30 by Joseph Maynor

[Phil]

9 minutes ago, Someone here said:

Where do you draw the line my dude ?

In honesty, ‘drawing the line’ is a thought experienced. 

In terms of direct experience, there is also perception & sensation. 

(Not to imply there is an actual line or division between thought, perception & sensation). 

 

9 minutes ago, Someone here said:

Like a line that is thought land ...and If you pass it you are in actuality land.?

I’m not suggesting you’re in anything, only that an experience of a thought is, an experience of a thought. 

 

9 minutes ago, Someone here said:

"Steel wall " is a thought RIGHT NOW for me because there is no experience of a steel wall for me right this second.  But if I'm actually in front of a steel wall ..then it's obviously not just a thought .its a physical object..like DUH! ...it doesn't get more obvious than this .

The experience of the thought ‘steel wall’ is the same regardless. It’s still an experience of a thought. 

[Phil]

24 minutes ago, Joseph Maynor said:

I think we should share the discoursing on Actualized on the identical issue here for completeness.  People need the whole context to make a reasonable judgment.

https://www.actualized.org/forum/topic/99064-why-is-this-reality-dense/

What about as an experience of thought(s) is, as is, an experience of thought(s)? 

Is someone or something still needed?

 

(Not that I mind honestly, just with respect to the inquiry.) 

[Someone here]

@Phil appreciate you but sorry I'm not convinced of what you're saying . But thanks .

[Phil]

@Someone here

Appreciate you too!

I’m not sure how being convinced comes in. I’m just pointing to the actual or direct experience.

‘Steel wall’ is a thought experienced.

Perception is an experience of perception.

 

Maybe noticing ‘label’ is also a thought stands to be clarifying…? 

In the ‘label’ sense, it might seem like ‘steel wall’ is a label for a separate thing, and then that there is a thing, a ‘steel wall’. 

 

Also maybe what you’re really asking is why does experiential reality feel so real?

Or maybe why can’t a body run through a (steel) wall?

Or how is ‘mass’ a misnomer? 

Emotional ‘density’?

 

[Someone here]

3 minutes ago, Phil said:

 "Steel wall’ is a thought experienced.

Perception is a experience of perception

A thought is a thought . An object is an object .

The thought of a wall is a thought of a wall.

The object we call a wall is the object we call a wall.

Nothing more .nothing less .

Anything else regarding this point is unnecessary word play.

7 minutes ago, Phil said:

the ‘label’ sense, it might seem like ‘steel wall’ is a label for a separate thing, and then that there is a thing, a ‘steel wall’. 

 

Yup.

7 minutes ago, Phil said:

Also maybe what you’re really asking is why does experiential reality feel so real?

Or maybe why can’t a body run through a (steel) wall?

 

No.im asking why its dense . For example there exist solid stiff objects.  A celestial world might be less heavy. 

[Phil]

Just now, Someone here said:

A thought is a thought . An object is an object .

‘Object’ is a thought. 

 

Just now, Someone here said:

The thought of a wall is a thought of a wall.

Yes. Exact same for the thought ‘object’. 

 

Just now, Someone here said:

The object we call a wall is the object we call a wall.

Well, that’s like saying the thought we call a thought is the thought we call a thought. 

 

Just now, Someone here said:

Nothing more .nothing less .

Anything else regarding this point is unnecessary word play.

In accordance with honesty, integrity, actuality & direct experience… ‘word play’ is also a thought experienced. An experience of the thought ‘word play’.

 

Just now, Someone here said:

Yup.

In that case labelling sounds like a means of reinforcing beliefs or strengthening thought attachment. 

 

Just now, Someone here said:

No.im asking why it’s dense . For example there exist solid stiff objects.  A celestial world might be less heavy. 

Let me know if I go too far here. If so, a question will arise and feel free to share it…

 

Exist is sometimes used to mean separate of, as in a separate physical thing. 

Exist is also sometimes used to mean stand apart from, as if separate, but not separate in actuality. 

 

As is it noticed or acknowledged, again in honesty and with integrity, that ‘separation’ is a thought experienced, we can lean to the latter usage of the word exist.

 

So then with respect to the inquiry - Why Is (‘it’) Reality Dense? - Is reality (‘it’) meant as a separate physical thing, or seems to stand apart from but is in fact not actually separate?

[WhiteOwl]

8 minutes ago, Phil said:

An experience of the thought ‘word play’.

When you say it like that. Do you mean that different thoughts make a different experience?  I mean kind of obviously it does, but still didn't think of it like that before.

[Someone here]

7 minutes ago, Phil said:

Exist is sometimes used to mean separate of, as in a separate physical thing. 

Exist is also sometimes used to mean stand apart from, as if separate, but not separate in actuality

No I'm not talking about separation. 

By existence I mean that which is . It can't be defined because it is that which  appears as the very definition. 

10 minutes ago, Phil said:

As is it noticed or acknowledged, again in honesty and with integrity, that ‘separation’ is a thought experienced, we can lean to the latter usage of the word exist.

Like I said I'm not using the word exist to mean separation.  Just the mere fact of its either "there " or not "there ".

My IPhone is there .it exists . Santa cluase isn't there .

12 minutes ago, Phil said:

So then with respect to the inquiry - Why Is (‘it’) Reality Dense? - Is reality (‘it’) meant as a separate physical thing, or seems to stand apart from but is in fact not actually separate?

Separate or not separate from what exactly?  There is only reality .it's not separate from itself .that doesn't make sense .