Why "hell" doesn't and cannot exist !

[Someone here]

We all have our existential fears .I know I have. Not sure about you but since I was a child I was terrified by the concept of hell .

Imagine an evil place full of lava and burning and fire and you get to be tortured in it forever. FOREVER.  Do you realize how bad that is?  So I decided to disprove to myself the concept of hell .just to see where does this journey take me. 

keep in mind that reality is infinite. It can instantly manifest the worst hell you can ever possibly imagine.  But my argument here is not to definitively prove that hell doesn't exist.  But to show that even if it did..it's not gonna be as bad as you think it is. 

here is the logic behind this:

 all suffering comes to an end..because there isn’t anyone either connected to or separate from emptiness (or everything). Like anything else..hell is imaginary . it can exist as a motivator for stage blue folk..etc but nothing lasts forever..and if there were nothing but intense suffering.. there’d be no reference point to know what’s better..so you wouldn't know that it is suffering. and even if it’s a worst case scenario..if there is a reference point of happiness in consciousness that exists to allow max suffering to exist .. well then one could just pay attention to that positive reference point and it wouldn’t be hell anymore. In any case it wouldn’t last forever.. nothing does. It would eventually be transcended .

[solereproduction]

On 11/25/2023 at 12:25 PM, Someone here said:

We all have our existential fears .I know I have. Not sure about you but since I was a child I was terrified by the concept of hell .

Imagine an evil place full of lava and burning and fire and you get to be tortured in it forever. FOREVER.  Do you realize how bad that is?  So I decided to disprove to myself the concept of hell .just to see where does this journey take me. 

keep in mind that reality is infinite. It can instantly manifest the worst hell you can ever possibly imagine.  But my argument here is not to definitively prove that hell doesn't exist.  But to show that even if it did..it's not gonna be as bad as you think it is. 

here is the logic behind this:

 all suffering comes to an end..because there isn’t anyone either connected to or separate from emptiness (or everything). Like anything else..hell is imaginary . it can exist as a motivator for stage blue folk..etc but nothing lasts forever..and if there were nothing but intense suffering.. there’d be no reference point to know what’s better..so you wouldn't know that it is suffering. and even if it’s a worst case scenario..if there is a reference point of happiness in consciousness that exists to allow max suffering to exist .. well then one could just pay attention to that positive reference point and it wouldn’t be hell anymore. In any case it wouldn’t last forever.. nothing does. It would eventually be transcended .

do you realize the answer to your thread's inquiry is in your OP?

 

it is so simple human minds following traditions beliefs won't accept the exponential of the whole is simplicity of linear compounding chromosomes making each lifetime here eternally separated as a single cycle of life in series parallel time inhabiting space now conceived to decomposed never a duplicate of any other combination since inception of the species and each ancestral lineage still present.

 

Perpetual balancing has physical limitations of finite matter taking forms shape ancestrally present within inorganic universal positions like this planet and its atmosphere unique from anything else found/discovered to date.

Edited December 4, 2023 by solereproduction

[Someone here]

@solereproduction what ?

[nonduallogic]

On 11/25/2023 at 8:25 PM, Someone here said:

We all have our existential fears .I know I have. Not sure about you but since I was a child I was terrified by the concept of hell .

Imagine an evil place full of lava and burning and fire and you get to be tortured in it forever. FOREVER.  Do you realize how bad that is?  So I decided to disprove to myself the concept of hell .just to see where does this journey take me. 

keep in mind that reality is infinite. It can instantly manifest the worst hell you can ever possibly imagine.  But my argument here is not to definitively prove that hell doesn't exist.  But to show that even if it did..it's not gonna be as bad as you think it is. 

here is the logic behind this:

 all suffering comes to an end..because there isn’t anyone either connected to or separate from emptiness (or everything). Like anything else..hell is imaginary . it can exist as a motivator for stage blue folk..etc but nothing lasts forever..and if there were nothing but intense suffering.. there’d be no reference point to know what’s better..so you wouldn't know that it is suffering. and even if it’s a worst case scenario..if there is a reference point of happiness in consciousness that exists to allow max suffering to exist .. well then one could just pay attention to that positive reference point and it wouldn’t be hell anymore. In any case it wouldn’t last forever.. nothing does. It would eventually be transcended .

 

If you were in hell, and absolutely certain that there is no way for you to go out of it, then you would have no choice but totally surrender to it and that would be the end of suffering, because true suffering comes from the belief that you can leave it, and that makes you search for your way out incessantly, and i feel like that's what creates real suffering, whether in a hypothetical realm like hell, or in our direct daily experience. 

 

It is the never ending confusion of "should i just need to surrender, and be an absolute nondoer, for i have no choice, or should i try to find my way out, and try to be a decider and doer", that is the thing that causes the greatest suffering. It is the feeling that i have free will and choice, and that there is something i can do other than just surrendering to the hell fire, so to speak, that might be better and more beneficial, etc, for me. 

 

I'm not sure if the real pain actually comes from the negative circumstances, even if it is as exaggerated as the idea of burning in an eternal hell, or if it comes from the resistance to the hell fire, so to speak. If you could really just say to the reality "okay, do whatever you want to me, torture me if you want, i will not resist", then i wonder what would happen. Just being, and completely letting go of the sense of decidership and doership. 

 

What if we could accept that reality is absolutely absurd, and surrender to it instead of fighting against it? And if we are in a mode of fighting against it, surrendering to our mode of fighting against it also? I mean, i, more and more, come to believe that it really is about surrendering to the awareness, or letting go of the oars, so to speak, and letting all of this be about surrendering to the inner stillness, in a sense, instead of trying to think our ways through it. 

 

When i look at all scientists, philosophers, and even spiritual beings and mystics, in a sense, what i see is that it is all about the never ending attempt of trying to think and "logic" your way through it, maybe even without realizing that that mode of being just gets you deeper and deeper into the mud. But the desire of the mind to understand it in a formulatable way, i think that might even be the very frickin thing that gets you further and further from it. 

 

 

Edited December 5, 2023 by nonduallogic

[Phil]

@Someone here

Pretty sure I get your point. Hell as a physical location experienced in spacetime would at least be temporary. The logic’s pretty solid in that regard but it seems like there is a deeper and more intimate point being made in the Bible. From what I gather the Bible’s depiction of hell is the belief in separation & judgement followed by the behavior of punishment. Ever considered the more fundamental belief which separation, judgement and punishment ‘stand on’ is the belief in spacetime?

 

[Mandy]

Last night I listened to a near death experience of a woman raised as a Catholic, and unlike most of the heart warming stories you hear, she experienced hell, she took the experience and over many years came to see how it was created. Kinda rough, and taking the long way around but. 😳

 

Interesting how being a good moral person in religion and being an educated person in secularism is often the same movement of avoidance. In order to be one way you must avoid some other way. 

[solereproduction]

11 hours ago, Someone here said:

@solereproduction what ?

You have had 11 hours to think about my response, have you tried yet?

 

What do you think about my reply besides it seems like gibberish as evident in first response?

 

Creating a governing social philosophy one shouldn't leave out physical absolutes separating each reproduction occupying time here now as equally inhabiting space ancestrally positioned so far.

[Devin]

@solereproduction I think if you write a book it might sell well!

Edited December 5, 2023 by Devin

[Someone here]

8 hours ago, nonduallogic said:

 

If you were in hell, and absolutely certain that there is no way for you to go out of it, then you would have no choice but totally surrender to it and that would be the end of suffering, because true suffering comes from the belief that you can leave it, and that makes you search for your way out incessantly, and i feel like that's what creates real suffering, whether in a hypothetical realm like hell, or in our direct daily experience. 

 

It is the never ending confusion of "should i just need to surrender, and be an absolute nondoer, for i have no choice, or should i try to find my way out, and try to be a decider and doer", that is the thing that causes the greatest suffering. It is the feeling that i have free will and choice, and that there is something i can do other than just surrendering to the hell fire, so to speak, that might be better and more beneficial, etc, for me. 

 

I'm not sure if the real pain actually comes from the negative circumstances, even if it is as exaggerated as the idea of burning in an eternal hell, or if it comes from the resistance to the hell fire, so to speak. If you could really just say to the reality "okay, do whatever you want to me, torture me if you want, i will not resist", then i wonder what would happen. Just being, and completely letting go of the sense of decidership and doership. 

 

What if we could accept that reality is absolutely absurd, and surrender to it instead of fighting against it? And if we are in a mode of fighting against it, surrendering to our mode of fighting against it also? I mean, i, more and more, come to believe that it really is about surrendering to the awareness, or letting go of the oars, so to speak, and letting all of this be about surrendering to the inner stillness, in a sense, instead of trying to think our ways through it. 

 

When i look at all scientists, philosophers, and even spiritual beings and mystics, in a sense, what i see is that it is all about the never ending attempt of trying to think and "logic" your way through it, maybe even without realizing that that mode of being just gets you deeper and deeper into the mud. But the desire of the mind to understand it in a formulatable way, i think that might even be the very frickin thing that gets you further and further from it. 

 

 

Thanks for the extensive post 🙏.

It got me thinking where is the dividing line between Heaven and the world? Where is the dividing line between hell and the world? Mind. There’s nowhere else,..nor a real here in the first place. You create hell for yourself when you create hell for others..and create Heaven for yourself when you create Heaven for others. 

5 hours ago, Phil said:

@Someone here

Pretty sure I get your point. Hell as a physical location experienced in spacetime would at least be temporary. The logic’s pretty solid in that regard but it seems like there is a deeper and more intimate point being made in the Bible. From what I gather the Bible’s depiction of hell is the belief in separation & judgement followed by the behavior of punishment. Ever considered the more fundamental belief which separation, judgement and punishment ‘stand on’ is the belief in spacetime?

 

Well I don't see any connection (literally or figuratively metaphorically hypothetically etc) between religious hell as described in the Bible and the Qur’an and a belief In spacetime time . So I want you to elaborate more on this .

I had a  God-realization awakening this morning...it’s recognized that everything is basically a boundless groundless playground of perfection.. without the presence or lack of a silver lining..so i discovered the love of God which is me..and which is not the religious sadistic God. there would be no place for any one eternal experience that God could not appear to grow from  which is what hell seems to mean.

4 hours ago, Mandy said:

Last night I listened to a near death experience of a woman raised as a Catholic, and unlike most of the heart warming stories you hear, she experienced hell, she took the experience and over many years came to see how it was created. Kinda rough, and taking the long way around but. 😳

 

Interesting how being a good moral person in religion and being an educated person in secularism is often the same movement of avoidance. In order to be one way you must avoid some other way. 

Thanks for sharing 👍 

Well.. first be assured that we’re not talking about actual death..theses NDEs are people who approached  death to the brim but did not actually die .because that is a nonsensical concept, and no one really dies, but I digress...

What seems to be the most likely event is simply an incomprehensible end of consciousness..  perhaps concurrent with moving to another body .

3 hours ago, Devin said:

@solereproduction I think if you write a book it might sell well!

🤣

[Devin]

1 minute ago, Someone here said:

 

🤣

It could get a cult following. I can envision the memes, t-shirts, and coffee cups already.

[Alexander]

1 minute ago, Devin said:

It could get a cult following. I can envision the memes, t-shirts, and coffee cups already.

He is not a YouTuber.

[Someone here]

@Devin OK enough Trolling him  . Maybe he has a medical condition or something. Idk and I'm not trying to  be offensive.  But I don't understand a single word from what he says .

[Alexander]

3 minutes ago, Someone here said:

@Devin OK enough Trolling him  . Maybe he has a medical condition or something. Idk and I'm not trying to  be offensive.  But I don't understand a single word from what he says .

In his own mind he is perfectly clear.

[Someone here]

1 minute ago, Alexander said:

In his own mind he is perfectly clear.

Aren't we all ?

[Alexander]

Just now, Someone here said:

Aren't we all ?

That was my point.He has his own theory and he keeps pushing it.Devin is right he should publish a book or start YouTube channel.

[Someone here]

4 minutes ago, Alexander said:

That was my point.He has his own theory and he keeps pushing it.Devin is right he should publish a book or start YouTube channel.

He doesn't have any theory . He just string together a bunch of nerdy words and make a meaningless word salad .

[Alexander]

2 minutes ago, Someone here said:

He doesn't have any theory . He just string together a bunch of nerdy words and make a meaningless word salad .

I think he has a theory . It's about ancestry and genetics.

[Devin]

@Someone here I think he's hitting on how we perpetuate life from our ancestors, a continuation.

[Someone here]

35 minutes ago, Alexander said:

I think he has a theory . It's about ancestry and genetics.

 

19 minutes ago, Devin said:

@Someone here I think he's hitting on how we perpetuate life from our ancestors, a continuation.

Yeah and what the hell does that have to do with anything to post it all over the place ?

[Alexander]

4 minutes ago, Someone here said:

 

Yeah and what the hell does that have to do with anything to post it all over the place ?

Maybe he finds links between what is posted and his theory.