Buddhism and Nihrodha Samapatti scares me.

[spiritual dreams]

So I was reading about Jhanas in buddhism when I came across this article:

https://medium.com/@rogerthis/lets-talk-nirodha-samapatti-insights-into-valance-and-the-supposed-ontic-primacy-of-consciousness-fd78a38f3d28

 

Basically he states that in the 9th jhana you can cease all conscious experience and basically blip out of reality. He says that only people who have attained this state understand consciousness properly and that consciousness is not fundamental. In fact, any conscious experience brings suffering. He says he has experimented with psychedelics and God consciousness but nihrodha samapatti is the deepest state.

People who undergo nihrodha samapatti report that there is no consciousness there and that there is no suffering and therefore it is the 'highest valence' state. He also says that anyone who disagrees with him hasn't experienced it so they can't say anything about it.

 

It probably was not a good idea to read into this while I have kundalini active because something about that scared my a lot and I couldn't sleep that night. Thinking about it gives be severe anxiety.

 

Is there any truth to this? How do I come to terms with this? It seems to invalidate everything I've learned about consciousness.

Edited November 4, 2023 by spiritual dreams

[Blessed2]

Sounds like an extremely poor article with lots of separate selvery and manipulation, like this:

 

24 minutes ago, spiritual dreams said:

He also says that anyone who disagrees with him hasn't experienced it so they can't say anything about it.

 

24 minutes ago, spiritual dreams said:

He says that only people who have attained this state understand consciousness properly

 

Sounds pretty familiar actually. The cult of the understander.

 

24 minutes ago, spiritual dreams said:

It probably was not a good idea to read into this while I have kundalini active because something about that scared my a lot and I couldn't sleep that night. Thinking about it gives be severe anxiety.

 

That you experience anxiety, it means that the interpretation / thought is not true.

 

Happiness is literally one with truth. They're the same. Truth is felt. It's self-evident.

 

IMO consciousness is not "fundamental" cause consciousness implies two, being conscious of something. That feels ever so slightly discordant

 

Nothing is fundamental. But nothing is not your idea about a nothing. Nothing is nothing, actuality. Magically boundless. There's no limit to happiness. Nothing is stopping nothing. 😄

 

Edited November 4, 2023 by Blessed2

[Phil]

1 hour ago, spiritual dreams said:

Is there any truth to this?

No.

1 hour ago, spiritual dreams said:

How do I come to terms with this? It seems to invalidate everything I've learned about consciousness.

You hold kundalini as ontic (something that is actually possible or exists in reality) as he holds states as ontic.

You both hold knowledge of consciousness and states as ontic.

The resonating discord of the beliefs held is felt. 

What isn’t valid can not be invalidated. 

[Alexander]

43 minutes ago, Phil said:

No.

You hold kundalini as ontic (something that is actually possible or exists in reality) as he holds states as ontic.

You both hold knowledge of consciousness and states as ontic.

The resonating discord of the beliefs held is felt. 

What isn’t valid can not be invalidated. 

But me feeling Infinity is true.I hold it also as state because now I am not feeling it.

Now I get I am always Infinity but can't feel it because I am at my baseline of consciousness

Wondered if I stop with hard addiction and meditation that Infinity feeling can become my new baseline of consciousness.

[Phil]

7 minutes ago, Alexander said:

But me feeling Infinity is true.I hold it also as state because now I am not feeling it.

Right, what’s felt, and obscuring, is / are those beliefs.

Like clouds obscuring the truth & true nature of the sun from itself, via “what’s known about itself”. 

 

States is conjecture. States is / are not even ‘your’ (so to speak) means of mental aversion, suppression and denial. 

It’s conjecture. ‘You’ve’ adopted it, and therein don’t seem to notice This. 

🤍

 

7 minutes ago, Alexander said:

my baseline of consciousness

😂 🙏🏼♥️

 

7 minutes ago, Alexander said:

Wondered if I stop with hard addiction and meditation that Infinity feeling can become my new baseline of consciousness.

😂 😂 😂 🙏🏼 

[Alexander]

4 minutes ago, Phil said:

Right, what’s felt, and obscuring, is / are those beliefs.

Like clouds obscuring the truth & true nature of the sun from itself, via “what’s known about itself”. 

 

States is conjecture. States is / are not even ‘your’ (so to speak) means of mental aversion, suppression and denial. 

It’s conjecture. ‘You’ve’ adopted it, and therein don’t seem to notice This. 

🤍

 

😂 🙏🏼♥️

 

😂 😂 😂 🙏🏼 

Then what's left is nothing to know , nothing to believe in 🤔

[Phil]

@Alexander

Brainwashing can paradoxically take time to untangle. 

[spiritual dreams]

@Phil Fair enough.

How do you explain the experience of nihrodha samapatti?

[Phil]

@spiritual dreams

Point to it.

[spiritual dreams]

@Phil what do you mean?

[Phil]

2 hours ago, spiritual dreams said:

@Phil Fair enough.

How do you explain the experience of nihrodha samapatti?

Raise arm, extend index finger in direction of nihrodha samapatti.

[Orb]

@spiritual dreams I wouldn't sweat it. 

 

A "spiritual experience" or nirhodi samapatti is good for only one thing, bragging.

[Phil]

1 hour ago, spiritual dreams said:

@Phil what do you mean?

By attempting to point to it, it’s (hopefully) realized you can not, and therein that the experience of nihrodha samapatti is of the thought, nihrodha samapatti. 

 

9 hours ago, spiritual dreams said:

something about that scared my…. Thinking about it gives be severe anxiety.

How do I come to terms with this?

As it’s noticed it’s a thought, it can be noticed the fear felt is not of a ‘thing’. 

It’s how a / the / that thought feels. 

An emotion. 

 

The snake & the rope. 

 

9 hours ago, spiritual dreams said:

It seems to invalidate everything I've learned about consciousness.

There isn’t a knower of consciousness. So there isn’t anything known about consciousness. Unfortunately ‘everything I’ve learned about consciousness’ is conjecture from, ‘a knower’. All ego, or, on behalf of an illusion of believing thoughts about “me” knowing stuff about consciousness. Having believed what someone said basically. There is no actual loss, as there wasn’t anything known about consciousness in the first place. 

 

The snake & the rope. 

[spiritual dreams]

1 hour ago, Phil said:

By attempting to point to it, it’s (hopefully) realized you can not, and therein that the experience of nihrodha samapatti is of the thought, nihrodha samapatti. 

Fair enough but that doesn't necessarily mean it's not real. It's a thought in my mind but still it potentially points to something/nothing beyong consciousness. Is it possible for a complete cessation of all conscious experience? And what would that mean for consciousness? 

 

1 hour ago, Phil said:

As it’s noticed it’s a thought, it can be noticed the fear felt is not of a ‘thing’. 

It’s how a / the / that thought feels. 

An emotion. 

 

The snake & the rope. 

Yup my anxiety has calmed down a little.

 

1 hour ago, Phil said:

There isn’t a knower of consciousness. So there isn’t anything known about consciousness. Unfortunately ‘everything I’ve learned about consciousness’ is conjecture from, ‘a knower’. All ego, or, on behalf of an illusion of believing thoughts about “me” knowing stuff about consciousness. Having believed what someone said basically. There is no actual loss, as there wasn’t anything known about consciousness in the first place. 

yeah fair enough. I guess in general when someone says something like I experienced x and therefore everything you know and experince is false, it always feels super terrifying whether it's Leo's solipsism or nirhoda samapatti. 

[Enlightened Cat]

12 hours ago, spiritual dreams said:

It seems to invalidate everything I've learned about consciousness.

That is by design. You can't learn consciousness. 

Beliefs and knowledge can be learned and unlearned, incorrect or correct, and refined ad infinitum. Your direct experience has no such business, but it often acts like a container for all of that mental diarrhea to happen inside of.

Has anyone ever invalidated the color red? Can you learn and unlearn the color red? Can you gain higher insight into the color red? Does the color red change, can it become more accurate? Can it become scary? Can it lack suffering? 

And if you define it as "no suffering", how can you be scared of it? That's quite the paradox. Are you experiencing a paradox, or maybe just a thought disguised as one?

Edited November 5, 2023 by Enlightened Cat

[Orb]

@spiritual dreams if someone tries to one up you because of some experience they claim to have had, you can rest assured in knowing they are most likely full of it.

[Enlightened Cat]

13 hours ago, spiritual dreams said:

He also says that anyone who disagrees with him hasn't experienced it so they can't say anything about it.

I will also add some consolidation for this part.

If someone says "there is a higher state where the color red becomes more true and accurate", I do not need to reach that state to see through their bullshit. What that shows is that the person does not understand what red is, not that they have reached some higher understanding of red.