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Consciousness is everything there is, so it's one.  We can call it energy, God, Brahman, or whatever fits better to you.

Reports from that state (from example during psychedelic trip) are mostly terrifying, and described as cosmic absolute loneliness. I've been in this place too.

But i wonder - is loneliness a human thing,  the product of undissolved ego?  isn't consciousness before ANY feelings? 

If consciousness is SELFLESS, and PURE LOVE,  can it feel loneliness?

For example, many Vedanta guru's describes God's realization ONLY as pure bliss. ( as opposed to those on psychedelic trip, which are mostly rapid). If one's take time to be on spiritual path for DECADES, when there's also helping others, rituals, devotion, it all dissolve ego,  and you become more selfless. Maybe that's why? 

What do you think?

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What i would try to do is to notice when i am not conscious of loneliness. Meaning when i am not directly conscious of being alone or feeling loneliness. I can’t say that i am always conscious. For example, cravings can make me lose the direct conscious or my Self. But knowing that i am always conscious makes it easier to just be conscious again. Smth like this. :d


I have not had the same experience so far, just sharing an idea.

Edited by bardh
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Bliss is about as close as description can get. Might be a helpful distinction… with psychedelic trips, there are typically ‘glimpses’ which are then ‘held’ to be an experience in a past with notions (activity of thought) as to what ‘it’ was or is, or what I am… and thus ‘spiritual ego’ or, “the knower of”…  whereas with cessation, typically from the practice, there isn’t experience, notions, psychedelic trips, glimpses, a ‘new ego’, knower”, or ‘new knowledge / meta’… (because these thoughts don’t arise).   If consciousness is prior to anything, is fearsome, is loneliness, is memory, can feel something, if there is something to know, etc, then consciousness isn’t infinite. 

 

Practically speaking, two cents… if loneliness is of concern don’t focus on dualistic activity of thought like self & other, existentialism, etc.. develop a creative talent, such that time alone is a joy and a blessing.  ‘Connection’ is a duality that falls away as well, but so to speak, that is what is most connective, as that is expression. Likewise, when anything is said about consciousness, such as consciousness is lonely, look at the life and at least consider it could be thought attachment & projection. Not to judge, more… not to be mislead & influenced. 

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6 hours ago, Forza21 said:

If consciousness is SELFLESS, and PURE LOVE,  can it feel loneliness?

All there is, is awareness. The universe is "apparent", like a mirage of water seems real until investigated. The apparent world is continuously changing within a field of unchanging awareness. So, awareness is just playing hide and seek with itself all the time.

 

 

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Posted (edited)
7 hours ago, Phil said:

 

Bliss is about as close as description can get. Might be a helpful distinction… with psychedelic trips, there are typically ‘glimpses’ which are then ‘held’ to be an experience in a past with notions (activity of thought) as to what ‘it’ was or is, or what I am… and thus ‘spiritual ego’ or, “the knower of”…  whereas with cessation, typically from the practice, there isn’t experience, notions, psychedelic trips, glimpses, a ‘new ego’, knower”, or ‘new knowledge / meta’… (because these thoughts don’t arise).   If consciousness is prior to anything, is fearsome, is loneliness, is memory, can feel something, if there is something to know, etc, then consciousness isn’t infinite. 

 

 

Yes, so much clarity on this. Seriously. The knower seems to hold this "experience" with his "thought activity".  It seems like on the psychedelic trip, you take an absolute point of view, but you are forced to see it, from a finite human lens... and that's why it's so hard, because you might be not ready, because of lack of spiritual practices such as meditation, helping others, etc.

Do i frame it right?
 

Quote

Practically speaking, two cents… if loneliness is of concern don’t focus on dualistic activity of thought like self & other, existentialism, etc.. develop a creative talent, such that time alone is a joy and a blessing.  ‘Connection’ is a duality that falls away as well, but so to speak, that is what is most connective, as that is expression. Likewise, when anything is said about consciousness, such as consciousness is lonely, look at the life and at least consider it could be thought attachment & projection. Not to judge, more… not to be mislead & influenced. 


Thank you. ❤️❤️ 

 

 

11 hours ago, Zeroguy said:

Love/Joy/Goodness is truth of our Being.

Aloneness is not loneliness.

Forever Alone =Forever together.

 

That's very good reframe of it 🙂

 

7 hours ago, bardh said:

What i would try to do is to notice when i am not conscious of loneliness. Meaning when i am not directly conscious of being alone or feeling loneliness. I can’t say that i am always conscious. For example, cravings can make me lose the direct conscious or my Self. But knowing that i am always conscious makes it easier to just be conscious again. Smth like this. :d


I have not had the same experience so far, just sharing an idea.

Thank you 🙂 
 

Quote

All there is, is awareness. The universe is "apparent", like a mirage of water seems real until investigated. The apparent world is continuously changing within a field of unchanging awareness. So, awareness is just playing hide and seek with itself all the time.

 

 Yes i know that, but i wonder if labeling it with "human" emotions such as " loneliness" is valid. 🙂  

Edited by Forza21
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2 hours ago, Forza21 said:

Yes i know that, but i wonder if labeling it with "human" emotions such as " loneliness" is valid. 🙂  

Something like loneliness comes and goes, therefore is witnessed by unchanging awareness that you are. So, no, it's not valid, imo. 

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12 hours ago, Forza21 said:

Yes, so much clarity on this. Seriously. The knower seems to hold this "experience" with his "thought activity".  It seems like on the psychedelic trip, you take an absolute point of view, but you are forced to see it, from a finite human lens... and that's why it's so hard, because you might be not ready, because of lack of spiritual practices such as meditation, helping others, etc.

Do i frame it right?

Well, IMO 🙂  it’s a ‘where you’re at on your path’ really. Not right vs wrong. The implied duality of a knower and a known is like the implied duality of a ‘one who is ready or not ready’, or one who could lack or be lacking. I wouldn’t say meditation ‘get’s one ready’, it’s more of a falling away of thought attachment, namely, about ‘that separate self’. “The one” who could know or not, or be ready for some thing or not.  A recognition or seeing through the thought narrative of. But please don’t take that as any implication that there’s a rush, or that ‘where you’re at’ is anything other than divine & perfect. 

 

There are infinite ‘ways to go’. One, is using the emotional scale, and realizing why loneliness isn’t on there. I would suggest it’s because it’s a self referential concept, and not an emotion. The key difference is in the feeling of the guidance. If loneliness is ‘held’ to be an emotion, what get’s potentially missed, is… which emotion am I feeling in regard to this concept, ‘loneliness’. 

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If I draw a line around some "thing" it's "all one". Smoosh those words together so that they are literally all one and you get "alone". Even the act of pointing to a thing, naming a thing or defining a thing, makes it one. The concept of one is the primary separation. For example, a piece of paper is defined by the edges, the separation of it from everything else, what is not paper defines the paper. I think my body is defined and limited by the edges of it, but these edges aren't actual. If I close my eyes and feel I do not have borders. Feeling does not have borders. My vision which I used to SEE borders itself does not have borders. Find the edge of your field of vision. If you move your focus there it will just be the center again. 

 

You do not have borders so you can neither be alone or all one. 

 Youtube Channel    Website

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8 hours ago, Phil said:

that ‘where you’re at’ is anything other than divine & perfect. 

 

There are infinite ‘ways to go’. One, is using the emotional scale, and realizing why loneliness isn’t on there. I would suggest it’s because it’s a self referential concept, and not an emotion. The key difference is in the feeling of the guidance. If loneliness is ‘held’ to be an emotion, what get’s potentially missed, is… which emotion am I feeling in regard to this concept, ‘loneliness’. 

 

Yup,nailed it once again.

 

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A question popped in mind...

 

Where did this idea come from, that God/consciousness/true nature is something else than this world so to speak?

 

Where did this idea come from that it's hidden, revealed only in trips, higher states, meditation, enlightenment, "behind ego", "behind the appearance"?

 

If this world is Source manifest, how does that mean this world is somehow unreal, or not true?

 

If this world is Source manifest, is this world separate from Source? Isn't the togetherness, sharing and friendship you experience here as individual humans simply the togetherness, sharing and friendship of Source/God itself?

 

What I'm trying to say is... How come that this forum, us, and a planet filled with humans and friendship is not literally just... Source, truth, HOME? What if God's kingdom is literally just... Here. This place. Planet earth, Milky Way, and billions alike.

 

Perhaps:

 

Source/God/Truth --> World

Source/God/Truth = World

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@Blessed2 My take is that all is one, but oneness doesn't necessarily mean sameness. What I mean by that is that the world relies upon ever present,  unchanging awareness for its "apparent" existence, but pure awareness relies upon nothing.

 

The world is neither real nor unreal. The world is experienced, therefore in that sense it is real, it is unreal because it is ever changing and everything comes and goes, but this happens and is created of and within awareness it self.

 

We are pure awareness experiencing our own "apparent" creation.

 

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@Faith "Pure awareness experiencing" kind of conveys two separate things, perciever and the percieved.

 

It's really hard to exactly point to what I'm trying to say. Though I really resonate with it.

 

I guess another way of putting it... True nature, pure awareness, is not some another thing. It's planet earth (and more). This forum. This is true nature. This is absolute.

 

Which is why a lonely god/solipsism is a horrible misunderstanding. God is not some other thing somewhere. World is God.

 

Creator creating creation = literally just this "place". The kingdom. Filled with humans, cats, dogs, ants, trees, flowers, lakes, rivers, moons, suns, galaxies. Many, many seemingly separate life experiences. Truth/nonduality isn't some other place, another dimension or state or whatnot. 😁😁

 

Two seemingly separate people, separate life experiences isn't an illusion, it's the absolute. A shared world, togetherness, isn't an illusion or a trick. It's as real as real gets. There isn't a "waking up from illusion".... Maybe??

 

@Phil .... 👆👆 ??!

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@Blessed2 Are "you" your body/mind? Or are you the knower of the body and mind/thoughts? Are you the thinker or the knower of thoughts? The hearer? The smeller? 

 

Do you do Self-inquiry and make these discriminations?

 

I don't deny that the mind and body are me, awareness, but I am not the body/mind. 

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22 hours ago, Blessed2 said:

A question popped in mind...

 

Where did this idea come from, that God/consciousness/true nature is something else than this world so to speak?

 

Where did this idea come from that it's hidden, revealed only in trips, higher states, meditation, enlightenment, "behind ego", "behind the appearance"?

 

If this world is Source manifest, how does that mean this world is somehow unreal, or not true?

 

If this world is Source manifest, is this world separate from Source? Isn't the togetherness, sharing and friendship you experience here as individual humans simply the togetherness, sharing and friendship of Source/God itself?

 

What I'm trying to say is... How come that this forum, us, and a planet filled with humans and friendship is not literally just... Source, truth, HOME? What if God's kingdom is literally just... Here. This place. Planet earth, Milky Way, and billions alike.

 

Perhaps:

 

Source/God/Truth --> World

Source/God/Truth = World

yes, you are right o.O 

God needs world, world needs GOD. 
This goes together, without one, there's no other, so it's ONES.🙂
 

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3 hours ago, Faith said:

Language is dualistic, but we try to say our version of truth none the less. 😊 

 

Yess! Not starting an argument here, just exploring new perspectives 🙂

 

3 hours ago, Faith said:

@Blessed2 Are "you" your body/mind? Or are you the knower of the body and mind/thoughts? Are you the thinker or the knower of thoughts? The hearer? The smeller? 

 

Do you do Self-inquiry and make these discriminations?

 

I don't deny that the mind and body are me, awareness, but I am not the body/mind. 

 

I don't know. 🤔 I might look into it.

 

3 hours ago, Phil said:

And now I must degrade and demote you because that doesn’t line up with my concept of This. 
😕

 

Missed an @ there? 😁

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On 3/29/2022 at 1:51 PM, Phil said:

Well, IMO 🙂  it’s a ‘where you’re at on your path’ really. Not right vs wrong. The implied duality of a knower and a known is like the implied duality of a ‘one who is ready or not ready’, or one who could lack or be lacking. I wouldn’t say meditation ‘get’s one ready’, it’s more of a falling away of thought attachment, namely, about ‘that separate self’. “The one” who could know or not, or be ready for some thing or not.  A recognition or seeing through the thought narrative of. But please don’t take that as any implication that there’s a rush, or that ‘where you’re at’ is anything other than divine & perfect. 

 

There are infinite ‘ways to go’. One, is using the emotional scale, and realizing why loneliness isn’t on there. I would suggest it’s because it’s a self referential concept, and not an emotion. The key difference is in the feeling of the guidance. If loneliness is ‘held’ to be an emotion, what get’s potentially missed, is… which emotion am I feeling in regard to this concept, ‘loneliness’. 


Oh that's right. Sometimes i really need longer time to get what you say, but it's always at point.  Loneliness is a thought, what is felt is rather fear/panic/despair. Now going to the emotional scale. 🙂 

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