Someone here Posted July 9, 2023 Share Posted July 9, 2023 First let me define solipsism as the idea that only what I am conscious of right now exists and nothing else . Secondly...I hope for a detailed informative and nuanced discussion..no zen koans or one-line answers please. Oh boy that's a huge one for me lol. This idea started haunting me since I was a child.. I always had this feeling from my early childhood.. That I am actually the only "real" one out there and everyone else are just characters in my dream. Zombies.."cardboard cutouts" in my world. However you wanna call it or think of it. Obviously other people exist as objects of perception in my direct experience.. That's undeniable.. I go out.. I see people everywhere. But are these things" subjects"? Do they have internal self-awareness as I do? Is there someone behind their eyes? It there anybody out there other than me?. The solipsism philosophy doesn't say yes or no to that question contrary to what most people mistakenly misunderstood it.. Solipsism states that one's own mind or subjective experience of the world is the only "certain" thing to exist.. And the existence of other individual minds is "impossible to verify". In other words you are absolutely certain that you are aware right now.. But it's impossible to be certain that I'm (someone here) aware.. In fact why I'm talking to "you"? .. I should say I am aware and "you" are the unsettled mystery. The problem with solipsism is not whether it's objectivey true or not(is it actually the case that I am the only one out there)..but is that it is absolutely true subjectively regardless of that. You are trapped inside your own subjective experience in any case.. So even though I am aware right now from my pov.. From your pov that doesn't matter and there is no such thing.. There is only your awareness.. There is no such thing as "my awareness" in your awareness.. There is only these words in front of you right now and that's the actualilty of what is.. Anything else is just assumptions you add on top of it.."ofcourse there is someone there writing these words.. They couldn't just write themselves lol".. Really?. In your dream.. The entire dream and all the people inside of it..and their actions.. Are nothing but your creation.. They have no Reality of their own outside your imagination.. The only real thing in the dream underneath all the scattered phenomenon is YOU. So how can you be sure that this is the case with the waking state? It seems impossible to know . @Phil @Mandy @Blessed2 any clarity appreciated 🙏 Quote Mention Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blessed2 Posted July 9, 2023 Share Posted July 9, 2023 Could you simplify this a bit? Could you share a bit more simply, like maybe in three to five lines why it is that you seek clarity on this subject and what are the specific questions you seek clarity on? You said "This idea started haunting me since I was a child..". So would you say it is correct that you experience suffering in regard to these thoughts about solipsism, and you're seeking to alleviate this suffering? If so, what emotions does the suffering consist in regard to this? Check out the emotional scale and list every emotion you experience in regard to solipsism that's on the scale. Share the list here. Quote Mention There must be an effortless way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Someone here Posted July 9, 2023 Author Share Posted July 9, 2023 13 minutes ago, Blessed2 said: Could you simplify this a bit? Could you share a bit more simply, like maybe in three to five lines why it is that you seek clarity on this subject and what are the specific questions you seek clarity on? I seek clarity on this because its disturbing me whenever I think about .I can't get around the fact that the world disappears when I go to sleep or when I close my eyes . The question might be : is solipsism as a metaphysical worldview true or even have justified evidence to back it up ? if not..then why can't i Iook through Blessed2 eyes right now ? Why I'm trapped in Somemo here's pov? 16 minutes ago, Blessed2 said: You said "This idea started haunting me since I was a child..". So would you say it is correct that you experience suffering in regard to these thoughts about solipsism, and you're seeking to alleviate this suffering? Yes .absolutely. 18 minutes ago, Blessed2 said: If so, what emotions does the suffering consist in regard to this? Check out the emotional scale and list every emotion you experience in regard to solipsism that's on the scale. Share the list here. Fear . Despair. Rage . Powerlessness. Discouraged. Anger. Quote Mention Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loop Posted July 9, 2023 Share Posted July 9, 2023 20 minutes ago, Someone here said: Why I'm trapped in Somemo here's pov? Because that is what is believed, but not being notice to be believed. Why try to seek clarity on an -ism? When one can allow the clarity of This? Quote Mention Ten thousand tears, One Belly Laugh. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Someone here Posted July 9, 2023 Author Share Posted July 9, 2023 37 minutes ago, Loop said: Because that is what is believed, but not being notice to be believed. Why try to seek clarity on an -ism? When one can allow the clarity of This? What is believed but not actually the case ? Quote Mention Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loop Posted July 9, 2023 Share Posted July 9, 2023 21 minutes ago, Someone here said: What is believed but not actually the case ? That you are trapped in a perspective, or pov. Quote Mention Ten thousand tears, One Belly Laugh. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blessed2 Posted July 9, 2023 Share Posted July 9, 2023 56 minutes ago, Someone here said: Yes .absolutely. Okay. Now, imagine a best-case scenario from where you are now with the suffering and thoughts about solipsism, to where you'd like to be, where the suffering is no more, and there is peace and clarity. What do you want? Like, actually imagine / visualize that. Then if you like, share that scenario in this thread. This might at first seem irrelevant, but it's actually very helpful. 1 hour ago, Someone here said: Fear . Despair. Rage . Powerlessness. Discouraged. Anger. Why do you think that these emotions appear? Like for example, the thought "the world disappears when I go to sleep, other people are just my imagination, I am alone, I cannot know whether solipsism is true or not" probably feels like fear and despair. Why do you think that is? Why does solipsism feel so shitty? Then again, bring in mind how you'd like to feel. 1 hour ago, Someone here said: The question might be : is solipsism as a metaphysical worldview true or even have justified evidence to back it up ? No, solipsism is not true. I know you've probably heard this many times, but for the sake of repetition, solipsism is an -ism, like the name suggests. It is a belief / ideology, just like religions / ideologies like christianity, hinduism and islam for example. And solipsism is dismantled, un-believed and un-brainwashed in the same fashion as other beliefs. It can be a bit tricky, as you can probably imagine how it can be a bit challenging to un-brainwash something like violent ISIS or Al-Qaeda - type jihadism, nazism or cults like scientology. Basically, by careful inspection of beliefs and assumptions, and emotional awareness. 1 hour ago, Someone here said: if not..then why can't i Iook through Blessed2 eyes right now ? Why I'm trapped in Somemo here's pov? What's tripping you up in this inspection is assumptions like POV and knowledge. My POV and my knowledge. Be very mindful on the emotional guidance here. Meditation and emotional awareness is your best friend. Bring back again and again how you'd like to feel. Meditate regurarly. The actuality of This is not a my experience. Neither is it an only experience. These would be thoughts, boundaries. The actuality is not-two, no boundary, infinity. Here's a great quote from and old zen-master called Huangbo. While reading it, remain mindful of the emotional guidance. Each time you catch any discord, a solipsistic interpretation, be extra, extra mindful and check whether you have "fallen into error". 😌 "All the Buddhas and all sentient beings are nothing but the One Mind, beside which nothing exists. This Mind, which is without beginning, is unborn and indestructible. It is not green nor yellow, and has neither form nor appearance. It does not belong to the categories of things which exist or do not exist, nor can it be thought of in terms of new or old. It is neither long nor short, big nor small, for it transcends all limits, measure, names, traces and comparisons. It is that which you see before you - begin to reason about it and you at once fall into error. It is like the boundless void which cannot be fathomed or measured. The One Mind alone is the Buddha, and there is no distinction between the Buddha and sentient things, but that sentient beings are attached to forms and so seek externally for Buddhahood. By their very seeking they lose it, for that is using the Buddha to seek for the Buddha and using mind to grasp Mind. Even though they do their utmost for a full aeon, they will not be able to attain it. They do not know that, if they put a stop to conceptual thought and forget their anxiety, the Buddha will appear before them, for this Mind is the Buddha and the Buddha is all living beings. It is not the less for being manifested in ordinary beings, nor is it greater for being manifest in the Buddhas." Quote Mention There must be an effortless way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James123 Posted July 9, 2023 Share Posted July 9, 2023 5 hours ago, Someone here said: First let me define solipsism as the idea that only what I am conscious of right now exists and nothing else . Secondly...I hope for a detailed informative and nuanced discussion..no zen koans or one-line answers please. Oh boy that's a huge one for me lol. This idea started haunting me since I was a child.. I always had this feeling from my early childhood.. That I am actually the only "real" one out there and everyone else are just characters in my dream. Zombies.."cardboard cutouts" in my world. However you wanna call it or think of it. Obviously other people exist as objects of perception in my direct experience.. That's undeniable.. I go out.. I see people everywhere. But are these things" subjects"? Do they have internal self-awareness as I do? Is there someone behind their eyes? It there anybody out there other than me?. The solipsism philosophy doesn't say yes or no to that question contrary to what most people mistakenly misunderstood it.. Solipsism states that one's own mind or subjective experience of the world is the only "certain" thing to exist.. And the existence of other individual minds is "impossible to verify". In other words you are absolutely certain that you are aware right now.. But it's impossible to be certain that I'm (someone here) aware.. In fact why I'm talking to "you"? .. I should say I am aware and "you" are the unsettled mystery. The problem with solipsism is not whether it's objectivey true or not(is it actually the case that I am the only one out there)..but is that it is absolutely true subjectively regardless of that. You are trapped inside your own subjective experience in any case.. So even though I am aware right now from my pov.. From your pov that doesn't matter and there is no such thing.. There is only your awareness.. There is no such thing as "my awareness" in your awareness.. There is only these words in front of you right now and that's the actualilty of what is.. Anything else is just assumptions you add on top of it.."ofcourse there is someone there writing these words.. They couldn't just write themselves lol".. Really?. In your dream.. The entire dream and all the people inside of it..and their actions.. Are nothing but your creation.. They have no Reality of their own outside your imagination.. The only real thing in the dream underneath all the scattered phenomenon is YOU. So how can you be sure that this is the case with the waking state? It seems impossible to know . @Phil @Mandy @Blessed2 any clarity appreciated 🙏 Anything if includes an i is an bullshit. Because, I is not clarity in the first place. It is the biggest deep shit itself. You can't see the light int lamp if you do not clean the mud. Quote Mention "It is impossible for a man to learn what he thinks he already knows." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Someone here Posted July 9, 2023 Author Share Posted July 9, 2023 (edited) @Blessed2 thanks bro .I appreciate you. Do you mind if I share that quote in actualized forum ? Edited July 9, 2023 by Someone here Quote Mention Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blessed2 Posted July 9, 2023 Share Posted July 9, 2023 12 minutes ago, Someone here said: thanks bro .I appreciate you. 🙏 13 minutes ago, Someone here said: Do you mind if I share that quote in actualized forum ? No problem, of course. 🙂 You can find it by googling Huangbo. There might be stuff like "I know better" or "I'm more awake" etc. This is the same ideology as solipsism. Like a tree and it's roots. The same my knowing etc. Remember mindfulness. You are innocent. You are free. You are always welcome. 🙏 I'm not on that forum anymore (banned) so if there is any questions, feel free to share it here. Quote Mention There must be an effortless way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Someone here Posted July 9, 2023 Author Share Posted July 9, 2023 @Blessed2 thanks . I forgot to mention that the main cause for my recent obsessing with solipsism (because I toyed with it in my childhood)..is Leo's video on it. You can find it on YouTube by typing "actualized.org solipsism ". I ask you to do me a favor ..if haven't already..please listen to that video and tomorrow tell me what you think. Because honestly he uses very strong arguments that supports solipsism. Thanks again 🙏 Quote Mention Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Someone here Posted July 9, 2023 Author Share Posted July 9, 2023 31 minutes ago, James123 said: Anything if includes an i is an bullshit. Because, I is not clarity in the first place. It is the biggest deep shit itself. You can't see the light int lamp if you do not clean the mud. Really? Aren't you exaggerating a bit? Quote Mention Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James123 Posted July 9, 2023 Share Posted July 9, 2023 5 minutes ago, Someone here said: Really? Aren't you exaggerating a bit? I don't think so. For me, the I is like a worst city, like Manhattan. Millions of people, so much stress gossip, fight, drama etccc. But the source, is like being best village, like one of those in Switzerland, where everyone is happy, no suffering, no racing, easy, slow and so much peaceful oxygen. Getting respect being with just loving. Don't get me wrong after Enlightenment, even if you are in the big city your inside is that beauty village. Quote Mention "It is impossible for a man to learn what he thinks he already knows." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blessed2 Posted July 9, 2023 Share Posted July 9, 2023 1 minute ago, Someone here said: Leo's video on it. You can find it on YouTube by typing "actualized.org solipsism ". I ask you to do me a favor ..if haven't already..please listen to that video and tomorrow tell me what you think. Because honestly he uses very strong arguments that supports solipsism. Want to share the arguments you find most convincing? We don't really need a video. Quote Mention There must be an effortless way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Someone here Posted July 9, 2023 Author Share Posted July 9, 2023 2 minutes ago, Blessed2 said: Want to share the arguments you find most convincing? We don't really need a video. For example he said something along the lines " your bubble of consciousness ..what you are seeing..hearing . Tasting..smelling..thinking..imagining ..etc..thats ALL that Exists. Anything else is assumptions and beliefs. And "you are the only thing you've ever experienced " 5 minutes ago, James123 said: I don't think so. For me, the I is like a worst city, like Manhattan. Millions of people, so much stress gossip, fight, drama etccc. But the source, is like being best village, like one of those in Switzerland, where everyone is happy, no suffering, no racing, easy, slow and so much peaceful oxygen. Getting respect being with just loving. Don't get me wrong after Enlightenment, even if you are in the big city your inside is that beauty village. But I disagree with you. Because I know that "I" am real. Quote Mention Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James123 Posted July 9, 2023 Share Posted July 9, 2023 Just now, Someone here said: Because I know that "I" am real. This is the breaking point. If you believe, there is nothing left to say. But if you so completely opposite what you say, you will realize that so many beauty is waiting for you. And won't even remember the what even solipsism is. Wish you best luck brother. Quote Mention "It is impossible for a man to learn what he thinks he already knows." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loop Posted July 9, 2023 Share Posted July 9, 2023 1 minute ago, Someone here said: I know that "I" am real. and that is where you will keep landing, as long as it is believed. Quote Mention Ten thousand tears, One Belly Laugh. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Someone here Posted July 9, 2023 Author Share Posted July 9, 2023 17 minutes ago, James123 said: This is the breaking point. If you believe, there is nothing left to say. But if you so completely opposite what you say, you will realize that so many beauty is waiting for you. And won't even remember the what even solipsism is. Wish you best luck brother. 16 minutes ago, Loop said: and that is where you will keep landing, as long as it is believed. Note how many times you guys used the word "you " . Quote Mention Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loop Posted July 9, 2023 Share Posted July 9, 2023 23 minutes ago, Someone here said: Note how many times you guys used the word "you " . Crazy how it’s just a word. What is the energy felt around the word “you”? Quote Mention Ten thousand tears, One Belly Laugh. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Someone here Posted July 9, 2023 Author Share Posted July 9, 2023 15 minutes ago, Loop said: Crazy how it’s just a word. What is the energy felt around the word “you”? A sensation of an entity residing behind behind the eyes and between the ears ..somewhere there .😄 Quote Mention Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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