Friendship crisis

[fopylo]

I've got to the point where I don't know anymore who should be my friend anymore. What I want doesn't seem to really fit with reality.

I am dedicating time almost every day to working out. I like anime. I like to immerse myself in music. I like deep philosophical conversations, and I believe in cooperation and helping each other out so that we all grow together and reap the benefits.

 

Every friend of mine doesn't have at least 1 from the above, which doesn't make him a great friend.

There's a friend who likes anime music, and cooperation, but doesn't work out and doesn't like deep complex convos (doesn't like learning).

There are people who work out and like to grow themselves and be curious about life, but it's hard for me to have a conversation with them.

 

There are people that are garbage - you don't want to be near them and they don't offer you shit.

There are people who are like cake - always the easier option, don't offer you much other than a little nice time, and you know deep down you can't be living like that forever. (Damn I just realized how genius this analogy is). These are most of my friends.

There are people that are like those leafy green packs - seem like the healthiest and can help you grow the most, but still feel a little strange and you start doubting whether this was the best choice, and perhaps you could still live a good life with a little less seriousness and enjoy some cake...

(How'd you like that for an analogy?)

 

It's a little hard for me to acknowledge the fact that like all my closer friends don't take care of themselves physically (or at least not much). I'd say about 40% watch anime. And I can only have deep conversations with maybe 1 person, in a good case 2.

I also got to a conclusion about the people I'm friendly with in general (including my closer friends): I tend to click fast with people who work out and watch anime. And also, most of the people who I clicked with who work out and take care of themselves believe in cooperation and helping people grow to some degree.

 

What I can say for sure, after having experienced this several times while giving the benefit of the doubt and not to deduct with logic - The people who don't take care of themselves usually won't care much for you, won't care helping you grow, act selfishly, and not be the loved people of a group.

It's a good thing for me that I'm writing this so that I clarify things from my life.

 

So anyways, I'm kinda unsure what direction to go, who to approach, who to keep contact with. After all, there are people that I can just casually talk about anime, people who I can talk more in depth about the character development in a certain tv series, people who I can talk with them about fitness and how we can both become superhuman, people who I can have deep conversations with and bring up interesting ideas, and obviously the people who I feel very uncomfortable around and don't want them in my life, but are sometimes hard to scratch off because of their leech-y nature

[Orb]

I am your friend 🫡. 

 

I like fitness, anime, music, deep convos. Well I don't watch as much anime as before. 

 

Also, I'm finding in my life that it's perfectly fine to not have that many close friends. Most friends are transient and will go away relatively quick. But you'll have 4-5 friends for your whole life that are close.

[Mandy]

It's going to feel discordant to put too much weight on considering and judging what the friends do for you, rather than enjoying interactions in the moment, unfiltered by your concept of them. 

[fopylo]

@Orb

Thanks man, appreciate it. Kinda sweet of you😊.

23 hours ago, Orb said:

Most friends are transient and will go away relatively quick.

Yeah man this is kind of a sad truth. I've realized over the years that friends are really something that come and go. It's hard to imagine it in the moment, but it's always been the case that people whom I've considered good friends, just slowly fell apart after a while. It fell mostly due to everyone going their separate path in life and seeing each other less.

The people I consider best friends are relatively new (like 2-3 years). They are somewhat of a cake, perhaps a little healthier dessert (from the analogy I made in the OP).

23 hours ago, Orb said:

But you'll have 4-5 friends for your whole life that are close.

So yeah, but I don't see that happening anytime soon. Seems like friends come and go. Who knows? Maybe in 10 years my friendship life would be filled with completely different people, a different number of people, and a different type of people. Perhaps depends on the direction of my growth. Perhaps my friends says a lot about me.

[Phil]

@fopylo

I’ve had the same best friend for 35 years. He’s creating his reality too. Focus on wanted. 🙂

 

[fopylo]

@Phil good for you then. Seems very cool to have a friend for a very long time. This actually makes me a little jealous

[Phil]

@fopylo

Exactly. 🙂 Focus on wanted instead of the absence of it and it will be. The absence can not be. 

[fopylo]

@Phil seems a little unrealistic for the phase I am in right now. Your best friend I assume was someone you met through school or college. It's not that afterwards it's impossible, but it is way harder to find a "best friend" or "main group of friends". People connect best when they go through similar phases, strong ones like puberty school, but also trips and events. But I must say that the friends I made from school have a special place in my heart because those were times when we were discovering the world and ourselves and we remember those "naïve" times. I still wouldn't consider them best friends, as we never were best friends and as I am also seeing these days other people more often (from work) that I feel more friendly with.

It's funny thinking about it... Huh...

A friend associated with nostalgia and memories, while another friend associated more with laughter and excitement.

I never get the whole package...

Also I get this distant feeling sometimes from friends. Thoughts of "do they really like my company?", "Do they consider me a friend or just some distant guy that makes them laugh?", "Am I worthy enough for them?".

Yeah I know it's kinda fucked up, but:

1. I'm being honest about those thoughts, and

2. I want a good life (or maybe not, idk)

[Phil]

@fopylo

Do you want to be right about it being harder, you never get the whole package, and there is / this is a crisis?

Is the interpretation aligned with what’s wanted? 

Is there guidance received already? 

Also, do you want to attract friends who question your worth?

 

[fopylo]

Bro I just felt like shit today. I just can't take it sometimes. The frustration comes like a strong wind, and the wind doesn't go away forever.

I quickly forget to be myself when talking. Today I had some chore, and it was me, another guy and a girl.

Bro I I don't know why I just act so awkward next to people, like not even awkward, but just feeling tensed up all the fucking time, seriously. It's odd that I always feel tense around people, even around so called "friends"...

Anyways I felt that it was difficult for me to speak, and even though the other guy is kinda weird and has a soft voice he managed to easily engage a conversation. He is autistic but still manages to hold eye contact and not be scared to start a conversation that would be embarrassing for most people. I felt quite insecure, especially with the presence of this girl. Jesus Christ, all you have to do is add a woman to a conversation and I already become much more tense and insecure. I knew from the start she has a boyfriend, and I hoped it would relax me a bit, but no. I still felt a need to prove myself. I care too much for impression and they way I'm perceived by others. No matter how many interesting topics I could potentially speak with people, as long as I'm still this tensed dude that's hard for him to communicate and be himself, but funny and muscular

[fopylo]

@Phil

6 hours ago, Phil said:

Do you want to be right about it being harder, you never get the whole package, and there is / this is a crisis?

If I'm right about it it would be very sad but certain. If I'm wrong then I don't know how to feel about it. Kinda hard to accept... "Why is this then happening to me?" If these things are possible then it justifies the complains, as my life is possible of changing, but isn't going in the direction I want.

This whole emotion thingy is weird, like man - I could feel really depressed about my lack of romance in my life, and then feel better by thinking about anime or music. But this doesn't exactly solve anything because it is just running away from it for a bit. It always comes back.

7 hours ago, Phil said:

Is the interpretation aligned with what’s wanted? 

Feels like a ballad of wishing for it many times but the prayers are sent to the wrong address.

 

7 hours ago, Phil said:

Also, do you want to attract friends who question your worth?

Wow. It's not that I don't want this, but I haven't put it into those words before. This seems like the kind of friends I want 

[fopylo]

@Phil By the way, have you read Sapiens by Yuval Noah Harari?

[Phil]

23 minutes ago, fopylo said:

@Phil

If I'm right about it it would be very sad but certain. If I'm wrong then I don't know how to feel about it. Kinda hard to accept... "Why is this then happening to me?" If these things are possible then it justifies the complains, as my life is possible of changing, but isn't going in the direction I want.

Harder, what I’m not getting and this is a crisis aren’t happening to you but are interpretations arising of you. The sadness is how the interpretation feels. 

 

If this were a dream and regardless of what has previously transpired - whatever you focus on now begins manifesting… what would you focus on?

How would you change your interpretation(s)?

 

23 minutes ago, fopylo said:

This whole emotion thingy is weird, like man - I could feel really depressed about my lack of romance in my life, and then feel better by thinking about anime or music. But this doesn't exactly solve anything because it is just running away from it for a bit. It always comes back.

Feels like a ballad of wishing for it many times but the prayers are sent to the wrong address.

What seems to be overlooked is the emotions have already been assumed to be bad or unwanted. Focusing on unwanted isn’t a problem, so there is no solution. It’s like walking around the house looking for the pants you’re wearing. 

 

22 minutes ago, fopylo said:

@Phil By the way, have you read Sapiens by Yuval Noah Harari?

No. 

[Phil]

17 hours ago, fopylo said:

Bro I just felt like shit today. I just can't take it sometimes. The frustration comes like a strong wind, and the wind doesn't go away forever.

I quickly forget to be myself when talking.

There’s no need to remember to be yourself. You can’t not be yourself. You are already you. You can investigate beliefs about yourself whenever they arise. 

17 hours ago, fopylo said:

Today I had some chore, and it was me, another guy and a girl.

Bro I I don't know why I just act so awkward next to people, like not even awkward, but just feeling tensed up all the fucking time, seriously. It's odd that I always feel tense around people, even around so called "friends"...

It’s how the body naturally responds to discordant beliefs and judgement. 

Daily morning meditation. 

17 hours ago, fopylo said:

Anyways I felt that it was difficult for me to speak, and even though the other guy is kinda weird and has a soft voice he managed to easily engage a conversation.

It was difficult for me is a belief, a thought - not feeling. When the thought - it was difficult for me to speak - is felt, the discord of the implication of a second self is felt. If that were true about you it’d resonate, feel aligned, feel true - as truth. 

17 hours ago, fopylo said:

He is autistic but still manages to hold eye contact and not be scared to start a conversation that would be embarrassing for most people.

Projection is when a belief is believed to be true for other people too. It’s a coping mechanism for aversion and non-inspection. What you’re describing is the very evidence of this. He doesn’t hold the same beliefs. He doesn’t believe there is another him & somehow manage. That belief simply doesn’t arise. 

 

There is no self which is scared. Fear us an emotion, which is guidance, for the thoughts. For as much as you actually know or understand, it might be entirely true that no one else has ever experienced embarrassment. No one. Ever. Not even you. It might also be absolutely true that no one else has ever experienced a belief in a second self which is scared. No one ever. 

17 hours ago, fopylo said:

I felt quite insecure, especially with the presence of this girl.

There’d have to be two of you for you to feel insecure. One feeling and coming to that conclusion, and one that is or was felt. 

17 hours ago, fopylo said:

Jesus Christ, all you have to do is add a woman to a conversation and I already become much more tense and insecure.

You never become. That’s an idea, a belief which arises again and again - because it’s believed. You can inspect thoughts to see if they’re true. If you believe you become… put your belief to the test by letting discordant beliefs go and becoming whatever or whoever you want. Try it now. Give it maybe 5 seconds. See if it’s true. 🤍

17 hours ago, fopylo said:

I knew from the start she has a boyfriend, and I hoped it would relax me a bit, but no.

Hope is aversion. Self-love is relaxing. This is good enough as is. In fact, this is the perfection sought in seeking a better experience. 

There is no other experience, and there is no need because this is the perfection already. 

And some beliefs obscure. 

And aversion & seeking ensues. 

17 hours ago, fopylo said:

I still felt a need to prove myself.

Yourself is This. 

Not a finite separate thing inside a body.

This is self-evident. 

Instead of attempting to bend the spoon, attempt to prove there is no separate self. 

It will be easier then you think. 

17 hours ago, fopylo said:

I care too much for impression and they way I'm perceived by others.

Care about what’s true over personal discordant (suffering) beliefs. Inspect. 

17 hours ago, fopylo said:

No matter how many interesting topics I could potentially speak with people, as long as I'm still this tensed dude that's hard for him to communicate and be himself, but funny and muscular

Not am, are believing. And not in time, only presently and not even.

 

”The meek shall inherent the earth”

Jesus

 

 

You could be enjoying everyone. 

Matter of fact - you actually are. 

[fopylo]

@Phil

18 hours ago, Phil said:

 

If this were a dream and regardless of what has previously transpired - whatever you focus on now begins manifesting… what would you focus on?

Mastering the handstand.

Good friends that I can feel comfortable around and don't feel like I must put my worth on the line.

Training to become strong.

Playing the piano.

18 hours ago, Phil said:

How would you change your interpretation(s)?

I am quite attached to the amazing order of this paradigm I'm living in, conditioned on how to behave.

 

18 hours ago, Phil said:

What seems to be overlooked is the emotions have already been assumed to be bad or unwanted. Focusing on unwanted isn’t a problem, so there is no solution. It’s like walking around the house looking for the pants you’re wearing. 

Interesting... This is the Buddhist idea of happiness: the running away from "negative" emotions (pain) and constant chase for more "positive" emotions (pleasure) is the source of suffering, and the key is just to stop running away.

Question: why do we tend to label grief, insecurity, and overwhelment as unwanted emotions, while on the other hand labeling contentment, happiness and joy as wanted? It's heavily advertised, even in the "spiritual" community that the best life is when you live in Joy (I mean it makes sense, even you preach Joy, also the emotional scale gives this idea).

18 hours ago, Phil said:

No. 

Highly recommend!

One of his main ideas in the book is that our ability to imagine and talk about things that don't exist are what helped us become the rulers of this world. This really got me thinking about stuff talked here as well (collective beliefs), and made me more accepting for religion, politics and money. We operate by the stories we tell ourselves. When there's a threat to our story (for example the way life is for a man born in the late 1700's entering the industrial revolution. It's a huge change and it is scary) then we tend to hold very tight to old remainings of the story to keep it's survival, and even aggrandizing it (there was a huge wave of Christian orthodoxy).

Also he talks about happiness and how it's something we've started really talking about in the last few decades. There's a few approaches to defining  happiness:

 

Meeting expectations = achievement.

Chemical reactions (dopamine, serotonin, oxytocin = basically feeling good),

Non-chasing = unwavering peace.

 

The first one can be helpful for conducting yourself through the day and advance. I think it's easy to see how this doesn't result to necessarily feeling good - we all had the share of it.

Second one is already talking about scientifically feeling good, pleasant. I believe you can hack this system in many ways and add habits to your life which ensure you keep releasing more of these chemicals (like sport, eating healthy, achieving a goal, playing an instrument, having a laugh). I think it's cool but it's at the cost of making sure to avoid feeling not good.

Third one is about ending the chase and understanding that it only causes suffering. But that approach you could say someone who is sad and angry might be happier than the enthusiastic person that always laughs.

Very interesting imo.

2 hours ago, Phil said:

Daily morning meditation. 

Don't have time + I fall asleep (from previous experience).

 

2 hours ago, Phil said:

it was difficult for me to speak - is felt, the discord of the implication of a second self is felt.

Yeah sometimes talking about myself hurts so much. So fucking mental...

 

2 hours ago, Phil said:

Projection is when a belief is believed to be true for other people too

Well then I project all the fucking time lol

 

2 hours ago, Phil said:

For as much as you actually know or understand, it might be entirely true that no one else has ever experienced embarrassment. No one. Ever. Not even you. It might also be absolutely true that no one else has ever experienced a belief in a second self.

So how can you be sure I am holding onto those beliefs, but I can't make those assumptions about others as well?

 

2 hours ago, Phil said:

Hope is aversion.

I'm pretty sure there's an emotion of hope which appears on the emotional scale.

[fopylo]

Today I was more attuned to the way I feel and I came to an insight:

I care a lot about social codes and the way you're supposed to act with people and conduct yourself in public. Beliefs about communication, friendship, and what's acceptable/disturbing have conditioned me to keep engaging with my surrounding the way I do.

Feeling at peace, and following those organized self imposed rules (beliefs) don't always go hand in hand.

At some point I just feel I should leave, but then the conflict begins...

[Phil]

1 hour ago, fopylo said:

Mastering the handstand.

Good friends that I can feel comfortable around and don't feel like I must put my worth on the line.

Training to become strong.

Playing the piano.

Awesome. What else? 

If your friends believed you were putting their worth one the line they’d be feeling unworthiness. 

 

1 hour ago, fopylo said:

Question: why do we tend to label grief, insecurity, and overwhelment as unwanted emotions, while on the other hand labeling contentment, happiness and joy as wanted?

We don’t. 

 

1 hour ago, fopylo said:

It's heavily advertised, even in the "spiritual" community that the best life is when you live in Joy (I mean it makes sense, even you preach Joy, also the emotional scale gives this idea).

In Joy as in literally within as if inside of. Like a snow globe. ‘Enjoy’. 

 

1 hour ago, fopylo said:

Don't have time + I fall asleep (from previous experience).

Who or what are you talking about?

 

1 hour ago, fopylo said:

Yeah sometimes talking about myself hurts so much. So fucking mental...

You are yourself. There aren’t two you’s. When you’re talking about yourself you’re talking about an idea. The relevance is the idea is discordant, not you. The idea feels discordant to you. Care about how you feel more than being right. 

 

1 hour ago, fopylo said:

Well then I project all the fucking time lol

Projection occurs now, or not at all. 

 

1 hour ago, fopylo said:

So how can you be sure I am holding onto those beliefs, but I can't make those assumptions about others as well?

You say embarrassment is felt because of what others think or may think. Either you can read minds and or predict the future or that’s a belief. 

 

1 hour ago, fopylo said:

I'm pretty sure there's an emotion of hope which appears on the emotional scale.

21 hours ago, fopylo said:

I hoped it would relax me a bit, but no. I still felt a need to prove myself

Yes, hopefulness. Totally different context. Proving yourself is hopelessness. But by all means give you your best. 🙂

[fopylo]

@Phil

On 7/3/2023 at 9:47 PM, Phil said:

On 7/3/2023 at 8:15 PM, fopylo said:

Question: why do we tend to label grief, insecurity, and overwhelment as unwanted emotions, while on the other hand labeling contentment, happiness and joy as wanted?

We don’t. 

Obviously people say they don't want to feel insecure, they want joy, they really want to get rid of overwhelment... Dude, I am not the only who dislikes the experience of those "lower" emotions. Most people agree with the evidence of their sufferings.

 

On 7/3/2023 at 9:47 PM, Phil said:

On 7/3/2023 at 8:15 PM, fopylo said:

Don't have time + I fall asleep (from previous experience).

Who or what are you talking about?

I imagine meditation as me sitting, closing my eyes and focusing on something like my breath.

[Phil]

8 minutes ago, fopylo said:

@Phil

Obviously people say they don't want to feel insecure, they want joy, they really want to get rid of overwhelment... Dude, I am not the only who dislikes the experience of those "lower" emotions. Most people agree with the evidence of their sufferings.

Oh yes, that does seem most common. The difference seems to be the belief in insecure as a thing someone doesn’t want to feel. The indirect implication of there being a separate thing (insecure) is that one is a separate thing. Whereas insecurity is an emotion, which is not a thing. The suffering is this mental resistance via labelling, not the insecurity per se. Insecurity is guidance. Emotion isn’t evidence of suffering, it’s evidence of love. The way to no longer experience insecurity is to acknowledge, allow and receive the guidance. 

But you asked why we do. We don’t. 

 

8 minutes ago, fopylo said:

 

I imagine meditation as me sitting, closing my eyes and focusing on something like my breath.

Who or what are you talking about - which doesn’t have time and falls asleep? 

Meditation is the way. 

[fopylo]

Fucking hell man I just wrote a whole paragraph that got deleted about how I feel sometimes powerless next to 2 friends from work. One of them is being physical in a friendly joking way, but there is some truth behind every joke - and I believe he thinks he's above me. Also by the way he talks and refers himself to me. When he's being physical (and also the other friend) I tend to be submissive and act powerless (perhaps a defensive mechanism scared of if I'm actually weak). I try hard to hold myself back from being physical and say stuff I'd regret. I try not to cause havoc