Can't Let Go...

[Orb]

How do I let go? I think this is a step no one can willfully take. 

 

Any technique you give me will only be turned into an excuse to postpone letting go of everything. 

 

Tell me to meditate and meditation becomes a daily practice. 

 

Tell me to let go of beliefs and that'll become the very narrative postponing the complete letting go. 

[Phil]

It’s kind of like that old saying ‘a watched pot never boils’. Focusing on letting go of a thought is focusing on the same thought. 

So, no one can really let go, it just happens. But also, focusing on anything else is letting go. Kinda like how there’s no moon when you’re not lookin at it… and there’s no thoughts about ‘having let the moon go’, cause you’re just, focused on something else. 

[Orb]

@Phil

 

So just...enjoy my Self? 😂 

 

Sounds awesome, just meditating again and going for walks and drinking green tea, sweet! 

[Phil]

Letting go of (focus on) thoughts by focusing on perception and or sensation… is not the same as focusing on thoughts about a subject & object. 

But in terms of utilizing all resources available, I would say this would be maybe 1 - 2% of resources available. 

[Orb]

8 minutes ago, Phil said:

Letting go of (focus on) thoughts by focusing on perception and or sensation… is not the same as focusing on thoughts about a subject & object. 

But in terms of utilizing all resources available, I would say this would be maybe 1 - 2% of resources available. 

What do you mean? Was it something j said? 

 

I'm just feeling more alive today and I'm excited.

[Phil]

@Orb

Definitely not anything you said. 

 

Another way to phrase the same is there’s a difference between letting go of a thought… and I’m letting go of a thought. 

The former is awareness and the latter is awareness and ‘the separate self’ of thought. 

 

Sometimes, such as with addiction and the brilliance of the 12 steps of AA, the addiction seems to be to a substance such as alcohol, but is to thoughts about a self, or, the ‘separate self’ of thoughts. Put another way, sobriety happens like enlightenment happens. But these don’t happen to  or for someone. 

 

[Phil]

@Orb

In a way you’re already very well practiced in letting go. You do it completely every night. 

[Orb]

2 hours ago, Phil said:

@Orb

Sometimes, such as with addiction and the brilliance of the 12 steps of AA, the addiction seems to be to a substance such as alcohol, but is to thoughts about a self, or, the ‘separate self’ of thoughts. Put another way, sobriety happens like enlightenment happens. But these don’t happen to  or for someone. 

 

I've heard Paul Hedderman say something along those lines. It resonates.

 

31 minutes ago, Phil said:

@Orb

In a way you’re already very well practiced in letting go. You do it completely every night. 

You know what's interesting? I find that when the sun comes down I start feeling excited and more at ease. It's like the sun going down is a condition for letting go of the stresses of the day. But that condition can dissolve too.

 

[nurthur11]

15 hours ago, Orb said:

How do I let go? I think this is a step no one can willfully take. 

 

Any technique you give me will only be turned into an excuse to postpone letting go of everything. 

 

Tell me to meditate and meditation becomes a daily practice. 

 

Tell me to let go of beliefs and that'll become the very narrative postponing the complete letting go. 

By default one let's go of its past but sometimes this process is slower. For some it might take longer - in my case it takes longer time to "forget" someone. I notice that in my case grief is a necessary step(maybe the final step) before i let go of someone.

 

[Phil]

11 hours ago, Orb said:

I've heard Paul Hedderman say something along those lines. It resonates.

 

I suspect the troubles he experienced from addiction to getting hit by cars etc, has everything to do with “his” enlightenment. Hard to explain but can I see how it really drives home the single most important aspect, that “he” (what he really is) is not what any thought would ‘say’. That the truth is he knows absolutely nothing about himself or reality at all. It all ‘goes’, exactly like falling asleep, nothing remains. 

 

For whatever reason that also brings to mind the confusion about enlightenment, and how it seems some people believe there is a ‘way to it’. Like, they will ‘become’ enlightened, vs the truth, that enlightenment is just what is, what’s left, what’s already the case when all beliefs are inspected / dispelled / let go. It seems some people confuse that with ‘you’re already enlightened’, as if there’s a ‘separate self’ which could ‘become’ enlightened or which is ‘in there somewhere’ already enlightened. 

 

Not sure if any of that makes any sense or resonates. Just came to mind. 🤷 

[Orb]

3 minutes ago, Phil said:

For whatever reason that also brings to mind the confusion about enlightenment, and how it seems some people believe there is a ‘way to it’. Like, they will ‘become’ enlightened, vs the truth, that enlightenment is just what is, what’s left, what’s already the case when all beliefs are inspected / dispelled / let go. It seems some people confuse that with ‘you’re already enlightened’, as if there’s a ‘separate self’ which could ‘become’ enlightened or which is ‘in there somewhere’ already enlightened. 

 

I can see this, it's quote common actually. It also occurred that enlightenment does unfold through actions/effort/adding. But it's more about letting go. 

[Orb]

5 minutes ago, Phil said:

I suspect the troubles he experienced from addiction to getting hit by cars etc, has everything to do with “his” enlightenment. Hard to explain but can I see how it really drives home the single most important aspect, that “he” (what he really is) is not what any thought would ‘say’. That the truth is he knows absolutely nothing about himself or reality at all. It all ‘goes’, exactly like falling asleep, nothing remains. 

 

Not sure if I fully got the message here but I can see how all the stuff that unfolded for Paul was leading him to self realization. 

 

It's awesome to see a former addict wake up.

[Phil]

40 minutes ago, Orb said:

It also occurred that enlightenment does unfold through actions/effort/adding.

 

36 minutes ago, Orb said:

 

Not sure if I fully got the message here but I can see how all the stuff that unfolded for Paul was leading him to self realization. 

 

It's awesome to see a former addict wake up.

Well, you gotta ‘see for yourself’, but what I’m saying, just for the sake of being clear,  is that is not the case. Enlightenment is not the result of any doing, actions, effort or adding, nor of any genetics, dna, or other nonsense, and people do not awaken. These are beliefs that ‘the separate self’ or ‘ego’ could awaken. Sometimes purported innocently / ignorantly, sometimes for sales.  The truth is there’s no such thing as actions, effort, adding. It’s all the activity of thought. One only need to check perception to verify this in direct experience. 

 

Any self proclaimed (really important aspect to notice, as it’s egocentric / self referential) ‘enlightened person’ or ‘teacher of nonduality or enlightenment’ which suggests people become enlightened, and or therein there are levels of enlightenment (consciousness is infinite) is deluded and really would be better served by therapy and addressing the suppression and corresponding beliefs than spreading such a misleading message. 

 

Exactly what Paul is saying, is that accrediting any aspects whatsoever to ‘the addict’ is the underlying misnomer, the ‘separate self’, which there is not / does not exist. Same for ‘waking up’. There is awakening, there is enlightenment - there is not someone who awakens, or someone who becomes enlightened. 

 

When I imagine the activity of thought & discord & suffering experienced of letting go, trying to ‘get there’, letting go, trying to ‘get there’ just ruminating over & over, it’s kinda heartbreaking. It’s not innocence, it’s resentment of the (believed) loss of, playing out emotionally & psychologically. I’d be at a loss as to what could possibly be more misleading and misinforming than purporting that as enlightenment. So to speak, it’s hard to see how one could live with oneself and be in any condition resembling well being. 

[Orb]

25 minutes ago, Phil said:

When I imagine the activity of thought & discord & suffering experienced of letting go, trying to ‘get there’, letting go, trying to ‘get there’ just ruminating over & over, it’s kinda heartbreaking. It’s not innocence, it’s resentment of the (believed) loss of, playing out emotionally & psychologically. I’d be at a loss as to what could possibly be more misleading and misinforming than purporting that as enlightenment. So to speak, it’s hard to see how one could live with oneself and be in any condition resembling well being. 

 

Can you elaborate on this? I don't understand it fully.

[Phil]

@Orb

Probably the simplest pointing possible…

Thought & perception are apparent. Appear. Appearance. 

 

So there is no thought which is true about (enlightenment wise) that which is appearing as, thoughts. 

 

It seems, some self proclaimed ‘teachers of enlightenment / nonduality’ simple ignore this and carry on with all ‘their’ thoughts about enlightenment / nonduality, in sheer ignorance. 

 

Put other ways (pointings), it’s ‘ego’ purporting as enlightenment / nonduality. Underlying suppression ‘mixed in’ and ‘covered up’ / explained away. 

Only awareness is aware, of awareness. 

Consciousness is infinite. 

The Tao that can be spoken is not the real Tao. 

 

Innocence wise, it’s infinite innocence, appearing as a so called finite mind, believing thoughts, and convincing infinite innocence… that it is not already perfection, innocence… and that it is a “separate self” (conditioning)… which “needs”… to do, take action, achieve, become, etc, etc to “become enlightened like me / know what I know / understand what I understand / experience what I’ve experienced”. To be simple & frank, it’s a scam. 

[Phil]

What could possibly be added to This to make This more This?

 

What could there be for infinite consciousness - to know?

 

Or as @James123 shares… what’s known in regard to before birth, to after death?

To which I would add - it’s actually the same right now. 

Sans beliefs like “I know”, “I understand”. 

(Not really an ‘adding’ to what he’s saying, more or less is the same as what he’s saying / is the point of). 

 

Knowing & understanding are experiential. Appearance. 

There isn’t “a knower” or “an understander” or “what I know” or a “my understanding”. 

(That would be “the separate self” of thought)

That there is, is egocentric deception, or @Robed Mystic’s whole shitty deluded egocentric shtick.  

It’s not spirituality at all (investigative / direct experience based).

It’s just common everyday manipulation.

 

Another ‘pointing’… while there is suppression, enlightenment / nonduality / Self, is constantly ‘’hijacked’’ mentally… so there seems to be “the enlightened self” etc, while in truth it’s all ‘ego’. Conditioning. The “separate self” firmly believes it can ‘get to’ enlightenment via ‘understanding’, constantly overlooking the apparent nature of Self as ‘thoughts’. 

[Phil]

To ‘bring it back’ to ‘letting go’….

 

Experience is appearing. Apparent. 

Not separate things. 

 

There aren’t separate things already. 

 

So nobody actually “has” any thing. 

 

Only beliefs to the contrary of the truth. 

 

So “things” are never let go. That’s trying to ‘bend the spoon’. That’s impossible. 

 

It’s just thoughts, beliefs, which are ‘let go’. 

And (ultimately perhaps) not even. 

As there are no things, including thoughts & beliefs. 

 

 

[Phil]

Another ‘can’t let go’ belief untangler….

 

When exercising 85% of weight loss occurs through breathing / via the breath.

The body is quite literally being let go, and there is no suffering because there is no activity of thought / ‘personal’ contextualization. 

Sans maybe a resonating concept of weight loss being beneficial. 

[James123]

20 hours ago, Orb said:

How do I let go? I think this is a step no one can willfully take. 

 

Any technique you give me will only be turned into an excuse to postpone letting go of everything. 

 

Tell me to meditate and meditation becomes a daily practice. 

 

Tell me to let go of beliefs and that'll become the very narrative postponing the complete letting go. 

İf everything is already what is suppose to be?