Why Don't I Want to Work?

[Jonas Long]

44 minutes ago, Joseph Maynor said:

 

  It's like a kid living in their own bubble.  But that only works if you convince other kids that your bubble is reality and that you are the superhero in that bubble.  Outside that bubble, that's the scary unknown for you.  You don't know how to deal with that, so you live in and need to protect and maintain your bubble with you as the God.  This is so obvious when you're willing to push things beyond the dream, beyond ego, beyond a need to win at all costs, even if that is done by never allowing any opponents to challenge you.

The calls are coming from inside the house.  And they will continue until you recognize where they are coming from.

[Phil]

23 minutes ago, Joseph Maynor said:

 

I think this might be a discordant thought Phil.  What is better v. worse?  

There’s no debate happening. 

[Jonas Long]

Thus do the starving refuse sustenance.

[Phil]

Just now, Joseph Maynor said:

In the dream there is.  You're Watching the dream, don't deny that.

2 minutes ago, Joseph Maynor said:

Joseph Maynor in the dream is not the Self.  Phil in the dream is not the Self.  Jonas Long in the dream is not the Self.

There aren’t things, such as debates, a self or selves in a dream. There isn’t anything or anyone at all inside of a dream. There isn’t even the dream. 

 

For clarity’s sake - there is literally no one here watching or denying watching. 

 

This is utterly free - already. ♥️

[Phil]

12 minutes ago, Jonas Long said:

The calls are coming from inside the house

😂 

[Jonas Long]

7 minutes ago, Joseph Maynor said:

 

This is true on a level but false on a level too.  This is like saying there is no such thing as how much money you have in your bank account right now.  It's the trap of reducing everything to the Absolute.  I get it, it's a hard one to figure out on the Path.  It makes a certain kind of simple sense that everything could or should be reduced to only "one way" of feeling or thinking.  This would be really nice if it were the case, I feel you.  Everyone feels you on this.  But the question is whether the appearance of truth is Truth.  It's difficult and simple at the same time, paradoxically.

You are describing a misunderstanding you are currently having here.

[Phil]

16 minutes ago, Joseph Maynor said:

The clarion calls are coming from inside Jonas' and Phil's Houses too, just like everyone!  You're saying it's all in Me -- no, it's all You too!  So what you say is partially right, but also partially distorted, from my point of view.  I'm assuming, and I could be very-well wrong to some degree, that Jonas and Phil have a Me (Community of Gods vs. Solipsism).  But none of this is occurring in the Self, it's all occurring withing the dream.  But I think it's a clever and deceptive trick to say it's al in your head blah blah blah.  No, it's in your head.  You're just blaming me in the dream as dream characters yourselves.  You are the Ones arguing with Yourselves!  You don't see that.  you won't admit it, but you send that advice my way.  It's cute and clever, but ultimately it's misunderstanding how the Absolute and relative function on the Path.  It's hypocrisy at the finest (most subtle) level.  It's the archetype of the Trickster basically -- I don't want to overstate this because we all have a bit of the archetype of the Trickster in us.   I'm not making myself immune to any of the things I've been saying here.  Nobody in the dream is or will ever be perfect.  This a deep thing I've mentioned a lot, and if someone wants to go down this rabbit hole, feel free to start a thread on this subject.

Reality is Oneself. There isn’t a second. 

Beliefs are experienced directly only, if at all.

 

11 minutes ago, Joseph Maynor said:

 

This is true on a level but false on a level too.  This is like saying there is no such thing as how much money you have in your bank account right now.  It's the trap of reducing everything to the Absolute.  I get it, it's a hard one to figure out on the Path.  It makes a certain kind of simple sense that everything could or should be reduced to only "one way" of feeling or thinking.  This would be really nice if it were the case, I feel you.  Everyone feels you on this.  But the question is whether the appearance of truth is Truth.  It's difficult and simple at the same time, paradoxically.

Nonduality literally could not be simpler. 

 

There’s no true & false or levels in a dream. 

There is literally no such thing as how much money you have in your bank account right now. 

There aren’t any traps in a dream. 

There isn’t anything… such as a second or separate thing or entity… which is reducing  or reducible.

 

Absolute is … absolute.

 

That there are two, an absolute and a relative, is a personal belief / on behalf of “a knower”, which there isn’t. “It’s” an illusion of believing thoughts, same as being a unicorn, and of course not even.

[Phil]

10 minutes ago, Joseph Maynor said:

Here's a question for you Phil.  Are you open to ever being wrong about anything?  We have to start there to potentiate any possible discussion.  One has to first admit that they could be wrong to openly suggest they can learn from anyone else.  I know this is a bitter pill because it would be great if we didn't even need to do this in life.  We could find the one right answer and cling to that to the very end.  I'm not suggesting this is wrong by the way.  I don't want to necessarily change someone who does this.  There are religious people like this who need to have a fixed right answer and that helps them so much that they cling to this to the very end.  Don't let me take anything away from you with my words.  I don't have that power over you.  I don't want that power over you.  I don't want to say that you're wrong.  I want to share my path and let those who resonate with it come to it, but I'm not interested in force feeding anyone.  Those who have spoken to me in person know this about me.  In writing it comes off as more strict, but that's because writing in general comes off as blunt.  I'm all about leaving the breadcrumbs out and if someone wants to engage with them, they can choose to or not to.  I don't assume my perspective is the one right perspective, but as a matter of doing my own work I like to share my path to the extent that can help others.  And maybe helping you is causing you to react to me in ways that my ego wouldn't prefer.  I get that.  This is where you have to be open to criticism if you want to share spirituality.  Everybody knows this.  Spirituality is one of the most sensitive subject there is.

Nonduality; not, two.

 

Not an absolute and a relative, not infinite consciousness and also a separate finite self which gets things right & wrong. That would be beliefs. 

[Jonas Long]

11 minutes ago, Joseph Maynor said:

 

Well this would only be occurring in You right?  From what you have said, there is no me that is separate from You.

Yeah it's occurring in me in that I'm reading something that is articulating a misunderstanding of whatever "the message" is.

[Jonas Long]

Just now, Joseph Maynor said:

 

The only thing I'm interested in from you is what your message is.  There's no "the message".  There might be, but each person has to find their own if that's the case.

My message for you is look within.  Maybe give therapy a go.

[Phil]

Just now, Joseph Maynor said:

 

The only thing I'm interested in from you is what your message is.  There's no "the message".  There might be, but each person has to find their own if that's the case.

😂 There’s no you! 

[Jonas Long]

5 minutes ago, Phil said:

😂 There’s no you! 

Even more to the point.  @Joseph Maynor read what you've been writing here and don't assign any of it to "someone else", not even a little bit.

[Jonas Long]

@Joseph Maynor you're throwing me off by editing your posts after I've responded to them.  I'm not and never will be a teacher, ever, that's your obsession with insisting on being one again.  Again, more of you talking about you.  Read everything you've written today and realize you are trying to reach yourself with it all.  Scapegoating Phil, scapegoating me.  All to avoid your insecurities.

Edited July 17 by Jonas Long

[Orb]

47 minutes ago, Joseph Maynor said:

 

Says you lol.  There's no Phil but then Phil makes all kinds of posts and comments.  The answer to this is deeper.  But if my sharing on here is not wanted, I will leave.  I have no desire to share in a community that doesn't welcome my efforts.  I have no desire to be made into a scapegoat for others bypassing in their own growth.  I love to share, but I have no desire to be a glutton for punishment.  Unfortunately, however, teaching spiritual enlightenment is a path to be a glutton for punishment -- which is why teachers try to egoify it so it appeals to egos.  I've said this before -- a true enlightenment teacher will be hated by almost everyone, because the ego is not spared.  Nobody wants a true spiritual enlightenment teacher around for this reason.  The message is only meant for a very tiny percentage of people, I realize this.  Don't expect to be loved if you're teaching spiritual enlightenment.  When the ego is in danger, and it will most definitely be, you're going to naturally receive the opposite 99% of the time.   But don't use the word Awakening flippantly.  It goes very deep.  It goes to real self-annihilation not just paying lip service to that.  But with self-annihilation, you discover the Self which is where you find a Bliss that goes way beyond "true happiness."  This is hard to sell unless you've already bought it.  I get that.  I've known that for a while now.  I get it, this is difficult work.  More difficult that probably most people realize. It's the most difficult thing until it's not, this is the paradox.  I guess there is stuff to learn through conflict because people can review what was up to that point hidden from view, so conflict isn't always bad in that sense.  It feels bad to joseph Maynor, but it's not all about me.  If it were, I probably shouldn't be sharing.  So, yeah, dig in!  Enjoy it.  Thank you.  It was time well spent on my end this morning.  I don't want to burst anyone's bubble, I really don't.  My intention is just to share, with the idea that maybe someone, somewhere might appreciate it.  Otherwise, I'm fine just resting within Myself.  But there's a desire in me, I call it Love, to share.  I think we all have this as dream characters, I'm not special or exceptional in this way, or else we wouldn't be posting on here or other spiritual communities for that matter.  That's what our dream characters do.  We're like the Brahman class or caste in India, the spiritual class -- the people who do it not for self-gain, but because of love or truth and in helping others.  That's a role in the dream.  You could have very easily has some other role in the dream.  You could have been Elon Musk or whatever.  If you're a teacher in the dream, that's not something to be ashamed of.  That's just what your character is. It couldn't have been otherwise.  Don't let other dream characters try to shame you for this.  It's like someone saying it's not ok for an actor in a movie to be what he or she is.  It's ridiculous, but I try to be nicer when talking about it rather than making fun of people.  All you can really be on others is an influence, for better for for worse.

This is all nonsense. 

[Orb]

@Joseph Maynor this is "spiritual ego" at work. 

 

Stop the teacher game and take time to settle down, it will only get worse if you keep going. 

[Phil]

49 minutes ago, Joseph Maynor said:

 

Says you lol.  There's no Phil but then Phil makes all kinds of posts and comments.  The answer to this is deeper.  But if my sharing on here is not wanted, I will leave.  I have no desire to share in a community that doesn't welcome my efforts.  I have no desire to be made into a scapegoat for others bypassing in their own growth.  I love to share, but I have no desire to be a glutton for punishment.  Unfortunately, however, teaching spiritual enlightenment is a path to be a glutton for punishment -- which is why teachers try to egoify it so it appeals to egos.  I've said this before -- a true enlightenment teacher will be hated by almost everyone, because the ego is not spared.  Nobody wants a true spiritual enlightenment teacher around for this reason.  The message is only meant for a very tiny percentage of people, I realize this.  Don't expect to be loved if you're teaching spiritual enlightenment.  When the ego is in danger, and it will most definitely be, you're going to naturally receive the opposite 99% of the time.   But don't use the word Awakening flippantly.  It goes very deep.  It goes to real self-annihilation not just paying lip service to that.  But with self-annihilation, you discover the Self which is where you find a Bliss that goes way beyond "true happiness."  This is hard to sell unless you've already bought it.  I get that.  I've known that for a while now.  I get it, this is difficult work.  More difficult that probably most people realize. It's the most difficult thing until it's not, this is the paradox.  I guess there is stuff to learn through conflict because people can review what was up to that point hidden from view, so conflict isn't always bad in that sense.  It feels bad to joseph Maynor, but it's not all about me.  If it were, I probably shouldn't be sharing.  So, yeah, dig in!  Enjoy it.  Thank you.  It was time well spent on my end this morning.  I don't want to burst anyone's bubble, I really don't.  My intention is just to share, with the idea that maybe someone, somewhere might appreciate it.  Otherwise, I'm fine just resting within Myself.  But there's a desire in me, I call it Love, to share.  I think we all have this as dream characters, I'm not special or exceptional in this way, or else we wouldn't be posting on here or other spiritual communities for that matter.  That's what our dream characters do.  We're like the Brahman class or caste in India, the spiritual class -- the people who do it not for self-gain, but because of love or truth and in helping others.  That's a role in the dream.  You could have very easily has some other role in the dream.  You could have been Elon Musk or whatever.  If you're a teacher in the dream, that's not something to be ashamed of.  That's just what your character is. It couldn't have been otherwise.  Don't let other dream characters try to shame you for this.  It's like someone saying it's not ok for an actor in a movie to be what he or she is.  It's ridiculous, but I try to be nicer when talking about it rather than making fun of people.  All you can really be on others is an influence, for better for for worse.

It’s all self-rejection. 

[Jonas Long]

10 minutes ago, Joseph Maynor said:

 

Do you see the irony in this?  Are you threatening me?  Wait "it will only get worse if you keep going"?  That sounds like a threat.  That's just not good advice.  It seems like you need to calm down.  Take a breath.  This is actually very interesting what's happening on here.  I've been very rational and calm throughout all my posts in this thread.   How is it going to get worse for me?  That doesn't sound very spiritual or loving to me.  It sounds like I'm being demonized or scapegoated on here.  I don't take kindly to that actually.  That's the kind of conduct that true criticism finds its way to eventually.  I'm willing to speak my truth if necessary.

He's right though.  As long as you continue to pretend to be a teacher as a way of doing a spiritual bypass and service your spiritual ego you are going to suffer more and more. 

Edited July 17 by Jonas Long

[Jonas Long]

4 minutes ago, Joseph Maynor said:

 

But see you're pretending to be a teacher.  Do you see this?  Hello!  This is like a shadow projection case study.  I'm the teacher telling you to stop being a teacher lol.  This is ridiculous.  Yes I understand that my sharings, teachings, or whatever might contradict Phil's teachings, but to infer that I should stop sharing or teaching is itself a teaching, and to that I say -- no thanks!

I'm not a teacher, I'm just saying things.  This is exactly like a case study in projection though. 

[Jonas Long]

4 minutes ago, Joseph Maynor said:

Let's stop with the attacking.  Please.  This kind of tense, defensive is nonsense because it's not necessary and rather stupid in fact.  We should be able to discuss these issues without the personal attacks.  I would hope this is possible, but I wonder sometimes if it is.  This tearing someone down seems to me the opposite of the virtue of Love actually.  It's good for drama, and also good to clear the air as to what we all think and how we behave, but I think there is a better way to have this kind of conversation where we save face for everyone involved.  It doesn't have to be so personal if we debate the actual topics at play.

Its not personal.  You are having this reaction because you feel the spiritual ego you are trying to protect being threatened, and the spiritual bypass being noticed and called out.  But you are not the spiritual ego, or the spiritual bypass.  

[Jonas Long]

7 minutes ago, Joseph Maynor said:

 

You you you.  Never me me me.  You you you lol.  Dude.  I'm interested in what you were doing for your long break from here.  You came back when Phil made it okay to criticize me.  He green- lighted open season to criticize Joseph Maynor in this thread and here you are.  You magically and predictably re-appeared.  I have no need to engage in this kind of childish nonsense with you again.  We've been here, haven't we?  Let's move on.  My preference is not to argue actually.  If it helps others, then so be it, and I'm open to the greater good in that possibility.  In that case, my discomfort about this sits below a greater good for this conversation proceeding as it has.  I could have done one of two things, right, I could have decided not to have this conversation or the latter.  I chose the latter because I think sometimes good things emerge out of conflict.  Things are exposed that wouldn't be otherwise exposed, etc.  

I think it would be really interesting and useful for you to read back everything you've written today and understand that it's all been you trying to reach you, but the tiny bit of introspection scares the shit out of you so you go back to projecting immediately.  What are you afraid of really?