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What has probably caused the most suffering in many lives would be psychological time. With psychological time one is either living in memory (the past) or (imagination) the future, but how often does the average person live for right this moment? In the flow of life and not trying to get to the next moment or the next?

We all use clock time. This civilization couldn't survive without it. We have to plan, plan, plan, but how does this differ from psychological time?

I believe it's because the little "me" is created and stays very much alive if the mind is perpetually dealing with psychological time. It's true suffering. 

Even if you've had awakenings and no your true nature. I've found this issue is still a problem for many. What is your opinion and advice for others, to stay in the NOW, so to speak?

You're a thought. Do you think a thought is going to occupy 'no thought'.

The 'changeless' can be realized only when the 
ever-changing thought-flow stops.

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That this is an issue, or that there's something preventing you from being in the NOW right now is imagination. There's no "trick" or "solution" to this issue because it is untrue, you can just stop believing that something holds you from the present moment right now.

Congrats on the first post btw! 🎉

Edited by Winter

4201 is my number

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48 minutes ago, Winter said:

There's no "trick" or "solution" to this issue because it is untrue,

Hi, yes, it is untrue. But I think there are some tricks/solutions, like being mindful, focusing on breathing, reminding yourself that presence, awareness, consciousness is what we are and is here and now, not in some future moment. Sometimes un-believing is peskier then we would like.

51 minutes ago, Winter said:

Congrats on the first post btw! 🎉

Thanks, yeah! Woohoo🥳

You're a thought. Do you think a thought is going to occupy 'no thought'.

The 'changeless' can be realized only when the 
ever-changing thought-flow stops.

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@Nadosa Yes, truly there is just awareness/consciousness with a mind/body superimposed on it. There's thinking, seeing, smelling, hearing, touching, feeling, etc just happening, but no one it's happening to essentially. No thinker, smeller, hearer, feeler....

Thought keeps referring to this body/mind as "me", it says all this "verbing" is happening to "me" and projects this "me" into the future, which further can create worry if not stopped in its tracks and  there's a seeing through the facade, but this movie is so tantalizing. 

You're a thought. Do you think a thought is going to occupy 'no thought'.

The 'changeless' can be realized only when the 
ever-changing thought-flow stops.

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@almond Interesting, speaking of clearing cobwebs, my sister will pretend she wipes away stressful thoughts with imaginary windshield wipers in her mind. Lol. I've never tried it.

You're a thought. Do you think a thought is going to occupy 'no thought'.

The 'changeless' can be realized only when the 
ever-changing thought-flow stops.

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Clocks and watches are the best reminders that there’s not really time. If there were, we’d have no use for clocks and watches.  It really highlights co-creation, as in collective-creation. 

I wonder… is psychological time no more than a right-now-thought of a separate self in time. 

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I live about a mile from a castle that dates back around 1000 years. Next to the castle is a monastery  and a church and on the church is a clock. It got me wondering when I drove past the other day whether the church clock used to strike every hour when the castle was still occupied (yeah I know - I don't get out much😆)

I looked up the history of pendulum clocks that would be found in the church and they weren't invented until the 1600s, with pocket watches used before that from the 1300s. Prior to that there were sun dials that measured temporal hours which were of different lengths depending on the seasons.

It's interesting to imagine what happened before the sun dials and how people might have lived without the concept of time. The majority simply accept that time is something that exists in the same way that a tree does for example.

I mentioned this to a friend and his answer highlighted this perfectly...

"Time still existed but we just had no way of measuring it!"

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On 3/14/2022 at 10:12 AM, Nowt said:

I live about a mile from a castle that dates back around 1000 years. Next to the castle is a monastery  and a church and on the church is a clock. It got me wondering when I drove past the other day whether the church clock used to strike every hour when the castle was still occupied (yeah I know - I don't get out much😆)

I looked up the history of pendulum clocks that would be found in the church and they weren't invented until the 1600s, with pocket watches used before that from the 1300s. Prior to that there were sun dials that measured temporal hours which were of different lengths depending on the seasons.

It's interesting to imagine what happened before the sun dials and how people might have lived without the concept of time. The majority simply accept that time is something that exists in the same way that a tree does for example.

I mentioned this to a friend and his answer highlighted this perfectly...

"Time still existed but we just had no way of measuring it!"

It was a trip when I went to Athens Greece in 2014 and walked around the ancient forum where Socrates, Plato, the Stoics, Aristotle, Epicurus used to hang out and I went into the bushes a little bit so I could have some privacy and I laid down so I was staring straight up into the sky.  And all of a sudden 2500 years went away (since those folks were around) and I realized I'm looking at the same unique sky full of weirdly beautiful, dramatic, cumulous clouds that those guys also saw, the same ground they walked on, the same natural olive trees everywhere, the same unique tempestuous, wafty breeze and nobby and numerous hills that they saw 2500 years ago, and it seemed like time just went away.  I had so many spiritual experiences like this when I visited Athens.  I'd be walking down a modern street, and all of a sudden there would emerge ruins that date back thousands of years that would just show up on the side of the road preserved by time and I would instantly get teleported back to then.  Ditto for seeing like you say medieval Christian churches that are still functional and still used that were built in like 500 AD just popping up, nestled in some overgrowth of city structures built around it like weeds.  To go inside those churches was totally surreal because they're small, dark, very intimate.  It really felt I was teleported back to that time.  And the funny thing is, I realized there's no difference between then and now.  Time is a very superficial thing in a certain human way, although our accoutrements change, the same basic things don't change.  The magical feel of the ground under my feet as I walked around the ancient agora was the same for me as it was for so many other people for thousands of years.   It did have an energy to it that comes from being a special place that the whole Western world admires and preserves, which comes out it/comes from it like a child coming out of a parent.

Edited by Joseph Maynor
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On 3/13/2022 at 8:34 AM, Faith said:

What has probably caused the most suffering in many lives would be psychological time. With psychological time one is either living in memory (the past) or (imagination) the future, but how often does the average person live for right this moment? In the flow of life and not trying to get to the next moment or the next?

We all use clock time. This civilization couldn't survive without it. We have to plan, plan, plan, but how does this differ from psychological time?

I believe it's because the little "me" is created and stays very much alive if the mind is perpetually dealing with psychological time. It's true suffering. 

Even if you've had awakenings and no your true nature. I've found this issue is still a problem for many. What is your opinion and advice for others, to stay in the NOW, so to speak?

@Faith I've JUST finished the Power of Now by Eckhart Tolle! 😄 😄 

I've been doing LOTS and LOTS of research on people that have experienced enlightenment this whole idea about psychological time vs clock time... the FIRST guy I've heard this from. 😵😵

The MOST enlightened person to me is Jiddu Krishnamurti! He's just SOOOOO out there, there's no fascade or TRYING to be something. I have learned a lot from Eckhart though he's a bit too philosophical for me. 🤪

💚💚💚

Edited by ELove
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20 minutes ago, ELove said:

@Faith I've JUST finished the Power of Now by Eckhart Tolle! 😄 😄 

I've been doing LOTS and LOTS of research on people that have experienced enlightenment this whole idea about psychological time vs clock time... the FIRST guy I've heard this from. 😵😵

The MOST enlightened person to me is Jiddu Krishnamurti! He's just SOOOOO out there, there's no fascade or TRYING to be something. I have learned a lot from Eckhart though he's a bit too philosophical for me. 🤪

💚💚💚

Taking that BACK! 😄 😄 

I love U.G. Krishnamurti more! They're BOTH so out there and authentic that's what's so beautiful I love it!😊😊

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13 hours ago, Joseph Maynor said:

It was a trip when I went to Athens Greece in 2014 and walked around the ancient forum where Socrates, Plato, the Stoics, Aristotle, Epicurus used to hang out and I went into the bushes a little bit so I could have some privacy and I laid down so I was staring straight up into the sky.  And all of a sudden 2500 years went away (since those folks were around) and I realized I'm looking at the same unique sky full of weirdly beautiful, dramatic, cumulous clouds that those guys also saw, the same ground they walked on, the same natural olive trees everywhere, the same unique tempestuous, wafty breeze and nobby and numerous hills that they saw 2500 years ago, and it seemed like time just went away.  I had so many spiritual experiences like this when I visited Athens.  I'd be walking down a modern street, and all of a sudden there would emerge ruins that date back thousands of years that would just show up on the side of the road preserved by time and I would instantly get teleported back to then.  Ditto for seeing like you say medieval Christian churches that are still functional and still used that were built in like 500 AD just popping up, nestled in some overgrowth of city structures built around it like weeds.  To go inside those churches was totally surreal because they're small, dark, very intimate.  It really felt I was teleported back to that time.  And the funny thing is, I realized there's no difference between then and now.  Time is a very superficial thing in a certain human way, although our accoutrements change, the same basic things don't change.  The magical feel of the ground under my feet as I walked around the ancient agora was the same for me as it was for so many other people for thousands of years.   It did have an energy to it that comes from being a special place that the whole Western world admires and preserves, which comes out it/comes from it like a child coming out of a parent.

Beautiful ❤️

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