What causes depression?

[Someone here]

Aside from the infamous clinical reason which is basically a drop in the levels of  "feeling good chemicals " in the brain like Dopamine and Serotonin and Epinephrine etc ...or depression that happens due to traumatic events in one's life like losing a loved one. And also aside from seasonal depression like depression during winter etc .

I'm looking for more  "abstract " or psychological causes for  depression.  I've been depressed during the Quarantine in 2021..but it wasn't that bad . I never been suicidal before. So I want to hear from people who have first hand experience or understanding of depression and suicidal thoughts to give me extensive information about it if possible. To understand it better and to not fall into the traps and pitfalls. 

Thanks 

[Phil]

@Someone here

Is depression pain, as in, is it localized in the body? Could you point to it and tell a doctor exactly where it is?

 

Is depression a thing, as in, has depression (as an object) ever been seen / in perception? 

 

Is depression collective, as in, is there any evidence in direct experience that anyone else experiences depression?

Put another way, if someone tells you they are experiencing depression, are you able to see the depression - not signs of, but the depression…? 

[Someone here]

6 hours ago, Phil said:

Is depression pain, as in, is it localized in the body? Could you point to it and tell a doctor exactly where it is?

No . Its not a physical disease. Its a psychological disease. Albeit it can be said that it happens over your neurochemistry.  As far as I understand its either a decrease in the quantities of certain chemicals in the brain which I mentioned in OP .or the receptors of those chemicals just stop working. 

6 hours ago, Phil said:

Is depression a thing, as in, has depression (as an object) ever been seen / in perception? 

No .its not a physical object. That's a wrong assumption to begin with.  It's an emotion. It's abstract. I can't hold an emotion in my hands and show it to you .but you can feel it and experience it .

6 hours ago, Phil said:

Is depression collective, as in, is there any evidence in direct experience that anyone else experiences depression?

Put another way, if someone tells you they are experiencing depression, are you able to see the depression - not signs of, but the depression…? 

Well, it can't be transferred from one person to another like some sort of telepathy.  as I said its a private personal emotion.  I know because I went through a phase of depression when COVID was still anew .

Depression is wishing time would hurry up to  5pm, as quickly as possible so I can go the fuck to sleep .and only managing to hold out until 7:30pm before giving in. Depression is choosing to go to sleep at that time because I have zero motivation to do anything else and I'm bored shitless. 

These are internal feelings .they are not an object (thing ) and cannot be experienced by someone else aside from the depressed person. 

 

 

[Blessed2]

It's believing thoughts. Mainly self-referential thoughts. Stuff that's not real, not who you really are.

 

Suicidal thoughts appear when death is believed to be a thing, and stuff like "a resolution", "completeness", "a fix", "an answer", "peace" or even "awakening", "god" or "truth" is projected on it.

 

Ultimately though, death is a projection... We believe death is somehow needed or crucial. "The resolution / judgement / endgame must be somewhere else than herenow." Suicidal ideation is this, though quite intense.

 

"Fear of death is actually allure of death."

-ACIM

Edited January 23, 2023 by Blessed2

[Someone here]

2 hours ago, Blessed2 said:

It's believing thoughts. Mainly self-referential thoughts. Stuff that's not real, not who you really are.

 

Suicidal thoughts appear when death is believed to be a thing, and stuff like "a resolution", "completeness", "a fix", "an answer", "peace" or even "awakening", "god" or "truth" is projected on it.

 

Ultimately though, death is a projection... We believe death is somehow needed or crucial. "The resolution / judgement / endgame must be somewhere else than herenow." Suicidal ideation is this, though quite intense.

 

"Fear of death is actually allure of death."

-ACIM

So does negative thoughts cause depression or depression cause negative thoughts? 

And what about physiological depression when there is a tumor in the brain? 

I do agree that  the emotional reaction to a learned pattern of negative thinking IS depression. But that is just my personal opinion…

But if I’m right, that places negative thinking before depression, which means that negative thinking causes depression.

But then again, I’m not a mental health professional, so I could be wrong.

Edited January 23, 2023 by Someone here

[Blessed2]

47 minutes ago, Someone here said:

So does negative thoughts cause depression or depression cause negative thoughts? 

 

I'd say not negative thoughts, more like untrue thoughts (beliefs).

 

Untrue thoughts cause depression. Or perhaps more like feels like depression. Not listening to what feeling is saying is what makes it persist. Causing a prolonged experience, "depression" or "mental illness".

 

50 minutes ago, Someone here said:

And what about physiological depression when there is a tumor in the brain? 

 

What goes on in the body is like a metaphor, symbol or image for what goes on in the mind. Ill beliefs appear as illness "in the body".

 

[Phil]

7 hours ago, Someone here said:

It's an emotion

What’s an emotion?

 

[Someone here]

1 hour ago, Blessed2 said:

I'd say not negative thoughts, more like untrue thoughts (beliefs).

 

Untrue thoughts cause depression. Or perhaps more like feels like depression. Not listening to what feeling is saying is what makes it persist. Causing a prolonged experience, "depression" or "mental illness".

This is actually an incomplete analysis because it doesn't hint at the complexity of psychological issues. It is both biology (predisposition) AND what you are thinking and believing. Most people don’t just intentionally say I want to be depressed or psychotic or manic what have you. If you are suffering from serious mental illness, odds are there was a traumatic event or someone else in your family has suffered from mental illness. Otherwise moods are fairly predictable and people in general don’t try to control them too much.

1 hour ago, Blessed2 said:

What goes on in the body is like a metaphor, symbol or image for what goes on in the mind. Ill beliefs appear as illness "in the body".

Sorry I can't understand this part .

[Someone here]

36 minutes ago, Phil said:

What’s an emotion?

 

Emotion is sensation + thought, this is easily observable.
Honestly, im not sure .All emotions are felt as sensory feelings in the body.
And All emotions have electro-chemical correlates. There are feeling centers in your brain for each emotion whether its excitement, lust, pleasure ,bliss, melancholy, tranquility, shame, fear, jealousy, pride ,or in this case depression.

[Phil]

4 minutes ago, Someone here said:

Emotion is sensation + thought

What’s sensation & thought?

[Someone here]

18 minutes ago, Phil said:

What’s sensation & thought?

Consciousness. Experience. Whatever..

[Phil]

7 minutes ago, Someone here said:

Consciousness. Experience. Whatever..

There’s the depression.

[Blessed2]

3 hours ago, Someone here said:

This is actually an incomplete analysis because it doesn't hint at the complexity of psychological issues. It is both biology (predisposition) AND what you are thinking and believing. Most people don’t just intentionally say I want to be depressed or psychotic or manic what have you. If you are suffering from serious mental illness, odds are there was a traumatic event or someone else in your family has suffered from mental illness. Otherwise moods are fairly predictable and people in general don’t try to control them too much.

 

Hear you, depression isn't just "you're simply sad, get over with it, be a man" etc.

 

But... "Biology", "brain", "predisposition", "past", and "past trauma" are all examples of projection of the ego-mind.

 

The "individual who has thoughts and beliefs" is the thought / belief... Is the projection.

 

3 hours ago, Someone here said:

Sorry I can't understand this part .

 

If it resonates...

 

All you percieve, is projection. Not psychological projection, but metaphysical projection. All form / perception is like a movie directed by thought / belief.

 

Only what's not really here requires a form, to appear as if it was here. Only what's false needs a metaphor / symbol / image... Cause it's false.

 

Truth just be's truth. Falsehood however, seems to appear as things and stuff.

 

"A body" is that. A projection, or appearance of a belief... That you are a separate self... Living a life in a world, with other separate selves, subject to outside influences etc.

 

"Illness in a body" is also projection, an appearance of belief in lack, shortage etc.

 

 

If you were to write a movie about separation, shortage, lack, and need (in contrast to Wholeness / Completeness / Abundance / Happiness / God's Kingdom / Paradise / Nothingness / whatever resonates), what kind of story would you tell? 😁

[Blessed2]

1 minute ago, Blessed2 said:

If it resonates...

 

All you percieve, is projection. Not psychological projection, but metaphysical projection. All form / perception is like a movie directed by thought / belief.

 

Only what's not really here requires a form, to appear as if it was here. Only what's false needs a metaphor / symbol / image... Cause it's false.

 

Truth just be's truth. Falsehood however, seems to appear as things and stuff.

 

"A body" is that. A projection, or appearance of a belief... That you are a separate self... Living a life in a world, with other separate selves, subject to outside influences etc.

 

"Illness in a body" is also projection, an appearance of belief in lack, shortage etc.

 

 

If you were to write a movie about separation, shortage, lack, and need (in contrast to Wholeness / Completeness / Abundance / Happiness / God's Kingdom / Paradise / Nothingness / whatever resonates), what kind of story would you tell? 😁

 

@Phil If this is total nonsense, would love to recieve that good guidance.

[Phil]

2 hours ago, Blessed2 said:

 

@Phil If this is total nonsense, would love to recieve that good guidance.

Sounds like you already are receiving ‘it’. 

[Phil]

On 1/23/2023 at 10:37 AM, Someone here said:

Consciousness. Experience. Whatever..

 

On 1/23/2023 at 10:46 AM, Phil said:

There’s the depression.

 

@Someone here

That make sense?

[MetaSage]

Holding a negative future.

Creating a hopeful image of the future dissipates depression.

[Someone here]

@Phil no

You need to elaborate. 

Edited February 10, 2023 by Someone here

[Phil]

11 minutes ago, Someone here said:

@Phil no

You need to elaborate. 

Happy to, but why do I need to? 

[Someone here]

@Phil

11 minutes ago, Phil said:

Happy to, but why do I need to? 

You "need" in case you want me to understand your point properly. In case you don't care about that ..then you don't need. 

We clear now ? Mostly because spiritual people don't value appearing intentionally ignorant.For some reason it is fashionable in the new age gurus  to try  to sound intelligent and cryptic. 

I'm having a problem with your style of communication. and please don't take this as offence..but I guess that's the reason Leo Gura banned you from his forum 

You either play zen koans and riddles..or  use big words and string them together in sophisticated ways because that's what's required to do hard thinking.

I think appearing smart and overly subtle and ambiguous isn't what it's cracked up to be.