Too much feeling

[Kevin]

So I am at a point where I’ve noticed the same thoughts and emotions keep coming up and it has been getting frustrating. Recently I realized that a lot of the pain comes from thinking the thoughts and emotions have something to do with me. What I have been doing is just letting it all happen and not identifying with it. I’m sure I subtly am still identifying but I’m doing my best.

 

A core belief is that in order to feel better I need to fix or solve something. So just letting go moment by moment is hard. Also it is hard because I’m worried it won’t work. I’m worried that I could keep watching the emotions and thoughts come and go but I haven’t fixed anything so I’ll just keep experiencing the same thing.

[Phil]

4 hours ago, Kevin said:

So I am at a point where I’ve noticed the same thoughts and emotions keep coming up and it has been getting frustrating.

There is no separate self in time which is frustrated. Thoughts & emotions are experienced presently only. 

 

Frustration is emotion felt directly, as the thought story of a (second) self which you are not, is believed. It’s how the story feels to oneself. 

 

4 hours ago, Kevin said:

Recently I realized that a lot of the pain comes from thinking the thoughts and emotions have something to do with me.

There is no separate self in time which is experiencing pain. Pain is specifically localized in the body, and one could point to the pain and tell a doctor specifically where it is, and the doctor can help remedy the pain. 

 

Suffering is non-local, and is how misidentifying as separate (as the thinker thinking) feels to oneself, which is not a thinker thinking, and is aware of these thoughts. 

 

Thoughts appear. One such appearing thought is “thinker”, another thought is “thinking”. There is however no matching experience of a thinker, or of a thinker thinking. The relevance is the pain, which is actually suffering, is being attributed to ‘the thinking’, which isn’t even happening. The discord felt is with belief that there is a thinker thinking. 

 

4 hours ago, Kevin said:

What I have been doing is just letting it all happen and not identifying with it. I’m sure I subtly am still identifying but I’m doing my best.

The self which has been doing, and is doing it’s best is a thought story about a second self, a ‘doer’ in ‘time’. 

 

Awareness, oneself, is aware of these thoughts. Including the thought, believed, ‘time’. 

 

4 hours ago, Kevin said:

 

A core belief is that in order to feel better I need to fix or solve something. So just letting go moment by moment is hard. Also it is hard because I’m worried it won’t work. I’m worried that I could keep watching the emotions and thoughts come and go but I haven’t fixed anything so I’ll just keep experiencing the same thing.

Worry is an emotion felt. The self that is worried is a conceptualization of a second self, the ‘one who’s worried’. 

 

The relevance is, in believing the thought narration about a second self, the message of the emotion felt, about there not being a second self, is overlooked. Therein, the thought story, and the perfectly corresponding emotions repeat. 

 

 

This is a thought loop. In continuing to believe the thought story, what is missed is what’s wanted, and the change desired does not occur. 

 

In focusing on what’s wanted, whatever that is is allowed to manifest. 

 

 

Of the willingness to express doubt & pessimism, the desired change occurs. 

In truth it already is and it might be more accurate to say the willingness is allowing which expedites by not slowing manifestation down, via ‘getting in your own way’. 

 

There is infinite unconditional love here for you. 🙏🏻 

 

For ‘the individual’ there is too much feeling, but for feeling there is never too many individuals. 

[Mandy]

It's always only the present thought. "I haven't been doing well letting go of thoughts lately, I've been identifying with them." THAT thought feels bad, because that focus is identifying with/thus believing that thought. Funny, once you see the deception. If only there was a self that could deceive itself. There's only ever the present thought. 

[Kevin]

55 minutes ago, Phil said:

There is no separate self in time which is frustrated. Thoughts & emotions are experienced presently only. 

 

Frustration is emotion felt directly, as the thought story of a (second) self which you are not, is believed. It’s how the story feels to oneself. 

 

There is no separate self in time which is experiencing pain. Pain is specifically localized in the body, and one could point to the pain and tell a doctor specifically where it is, and the doctor can help remedy the pain. 

 

Suffering is non-local, and is how misidentifying as separate (as the thinker thinking) feels to oneself, which is not a thinker thinking, and is aware of these thoughts. 

 

Thoughts appear. One such appearing thought is “thinker”, another thought is “thinking”. There is however no matching experience of a thinker, or of a thinker thinking. The relevance is the pain, which is actually suffering, is being attributed to ‘the thinking’. The discord felt is with belief that there is a thinker thinking. 

 

The self which has been doing, and is doing it’s best is a thought story about a second self, a ‘doer’ in ‘time’. 

 

Awareness, oneself, is aware of these thoughts. 

Worry is an emotion felt. The self that is worried is a conceptualization of a second self, the ‘one who’s worried’. 

The relevance is, in believing the thought narration about a second self, the message of the emotion felt, about there not being a second self, is overlooked. Therein, the thought story, and the perfectly corresponding emotions repeat. 

 

 

This is a thought loop. In continuing to belief, what is missed is what’s wanted, and the change desired does not occur. 

 

In focusing on what’s wanted, whatever that is is allowed to manifest. 

 

 

Of the willingness to express doubt & pessimism, the desired change occurs. 

In truth it already is and it might be more accurate to say the willingness is allowing which expedites by not slowing manifestation down, via ‘getting in your own way’. 

 

There is infinite unconditional love here for you. 🙏🏻 

Thanks man this helps. I keep doing the same thing over and over. Something has to change

[Kevin]

17 minutes ago, Mandy said:

It's always only the present thought. "I haven't been doing well letting go of thoughts lately, I've been identifying with them." THAT thought feels bad, because that focus is identifying with/thus believing that thought. Funny, once you see the deception. If only there was a self that could deceive itself. There's only ever the present thought. 

This makes sense. Thanks Mandy.

[Phil]

1 hour ago, Kevin said:

Thanks man this helps. I keep doing the same thing over and over. Something has to change

This is ever-new. There is not a second before this nor a second after this. 

There is only this, and this is (already) ever-changing. 

[Kevin]

5 hours ago, Phil said:

This is ever-new. There is not a second before this nor a second after this. 

There is only this, and this is (already) ever-changing. 

Sometimes I really resonate with this. Sometimes not so much. Yesterday I meditated for like 2 hours and 30 minutes and this morning I meditated for an hour. Sometimes when I meditate a lot it can seem to stir up emotions. Not sure why. 

[WhiteOwl]

12 hours ago, Phil said:

There is no separate self in time which is frustrated. Thoughts & emotions are experienced presently only. 

 

Frustration is emotion felt directly, as the thought story of a (second) self which you are not, is believed. It’s how the story feels to oneself. 

 

I don't know what it takes to realize that like you have done apparently, and a few others. Its easy to understand and it makes perfect sense, i can never find any self and i never experience it, and i can see how my thoughts are making me feel. But it doesn't change that much, since it still continues to be there. I don't want to watch a bad movie over and over again, and if it's me or not doesn't change a lot.

like the thread starter is saying, he can observe his thoughts and emotions as awareness, but it just continues to be there, which is my experience also. thoughts return again and again, so does emotions.

 

Edit; Good answers i didn't read. Good thread, and very relateable  @KevinSo thx for the thread.

 

Edited January 3, 2023 by WhiteOwl

[Phil]

5 hours ago, Kevin said:

Sometimes I really resonate with this. Sometimes not so much. Yesterday I meditated for like 2 hours and 30 minutes and this morning I meditated for an hour. Sometimes when I meditate a lot it can seem to stir up emotions. Not sure why. 

How are thought loops perpetuated, kept going?

 

Why is fully feeling & expressing the emotions which arise ideal?

 

 

1 hour ago, WhiteOwl said:

I don't know what it takes to realize that like you have done apparently, and a few others.

Do you know there is something it takes? 

 

1 hour ago, WhiteOwl said:

Its easy to understand and it makes perfect sense, i can never find any self and i never experience it, and i can see how my thoughts are making me feel.

Who’s thoughts?

Who’s feeling?

 

1 hour ago, WhiteOwl said:

But it doesn't change that much, since it still continues to be there.

What is the actuality of there?

 

1 hour ago, WhiteOwl said:

I don't want to watch a bad movie over and over again, and if it's me or not doesn't change a lot.

What do you want?

 

1 hour ago, WhiteOwl said:

like the thread starter is saying, he can observe his thoughts and emotions as awareness, but it just continues to be there, which is my experience also. thoughts return again and again, so does emotions.

Who’s experience? 

[Kevin]

5 hours ago, Phil said:

How are thought loops perpetuated, kept going?

 

Why is fully feeling & expressing the emotions which arise ideal?

 

 

probably because I am resisting them. Maybe there’s thoughts about how if I fully go into them and look then it will overtake me and it will mean something about me. Also I think that you cannot manifest what you want when you are stuck in negativity so maybe I keep trying to put one guy in front of the other and avoid the bad stuff.

 

I think it is ideal to fully express emotions because it is showing love, care and empathy for yourself.

 

5 hours ago, Phil said:

Do you know there is something it takes? 

 

Who’s thoughts?

Who’s feeling?

 

What is the actuality of there?

 

What do you want?

 

Who’s experience? 

 

[Kevin]

7 hours ago, WhiteOwl said:

I don't know what it takes to realize that like you have done apparently, and a few others. Its easy to understand and it makes perfect sense, i can never find any self and i never experience it, and i can see how my thoughts are making me feel. But it doesn't change that much, since it still continues to be there. I don't want to watch a bad movie over and over again, and if it's me or not doesn't change a lot.

like the thread starter is saying, he can observe his thoughts and emotions as awareness, but it just continues to be there, which is my experience also. thoughts return again and again, so does emotions.

 

Edit; Good answers i didn't read. Good thread, and very relateable  @KevinSo thx for the thread.

 

Well said.

[WhiteOwl]

8 hours ago, Phil said:

How are thought loops perpetuated, kept going?

 

Why is fully feeling & expressing the emotions which arise ideal

A lot of the time, the difficult thing is understanding or knowing what it is i feel, and how i express it to release it. Sitting down and journaling doesn't always do the trick, even though many times it has. And i feel like i am expressing the same things over and over again, which can make it seem like "i" am doing something wrong. I am always willing to be completely honest and do whatever it takes if i just knew what it was (to feel better), and to maybe not end up in the same places again and again. 

 

I noticed that "positive" mind stories might be focused upon a lot also, which in the end always flips into something negative. "difficult" to not indulge in positive stories as they appear as a reflection when "i" feel good.

 

[Phil]

5 hours ago, Kevin said:

probably because I am resisting them.

Yeah. 🫤

 

If the thought is “I am resisting thoughts”, and this is a discordant looping thought… what’s wanted?

An easy way to discern - what’s the opposite of resisting? 

That’s what’s wanted. 

 

 

 

5 hours ago, Kevin said:

Maybe there’s thoughts about how if I fully go into them and look then it will overtake me and it will mean something about me.

The experience of meaning is created by believing thoughts. 

The more thoughts are inspected & expressed, the less believing of thoughts is experienced.

Therein the less meaning is experienced. There’s just a doer-less thinker-less I-less flow or apparent happening.

 

Suppression & contraction in the body comes up & out sometimes as meditation calms the thought activity, thus allowing it to. This is wakin up, the beginning of the end of the suffering, precisely the desired effect. It’s working. You’re over there ‘ah this is the same old stuff’, and I’m over here ‘this guy’s kickin ass, actually doin the work’.

 

No thought could, nor will, inherently mean anything about you. Believing is required for meaning. 

No thought could ever overtake you, you are always prior to, awareness of, and untouchable by, thoughts. 

 

Feel for a beginning and or end of sensation within. Feel the spaciousness, and notice the one at a time thought is an insignificant fleeting experience relative to you, like an ant in the universe, or Phil vs Kevin in Jin Jitsu. 

 

 

5 hours ago, Kevin said:

Also I think that you cannot manifest what you want when you are stuck in negativity so maybe I keep trying to put one guy in front of the other and avoid the bad stuff.

Isn’t the suppression & avoidance the negativity, the bad stuff?

 

5 hours ago, Kevin said:

I think it is ideal to fully express emotions because it is showing love, care and empathy for yourself.

It uncovers unconditional love. Self. The Holy Grail. 

 

 

 

2 hours ago, WhiteOwl said:

A lot of the time, the difficult thing is understanding or knowing what it is i feel, and how i express it to release it.

Simplify by putting size, time, difficulty, understanding and knowing aside. 

 

Write down (to ‘move it’ from thought to perception & have an emptied clear mind to look at it):

The thought arising is _____________. 

The emotion experienced is ____________. (Keep it simple. Reference the emotional scale.)

 

 

2 hours ago, WhiteOwl said:

Sitting down and journaling doesn't always do the trick, even though many times it has.

When it ‘does the trick’, it’s because you expressed how you feel and ‘emptied’ / unburdened.

When it doesn’t, you didn’t. When you didn’t, look for subject object thoughts, and self referential thoughts. They clog up expression & aren’t an emotion. 

https://www.actualityofbeing.com/contemplations-1

 

The ‘trick’ is because feeling better / better feeling is of one source, and that source is within. 

There is only one source, and it is always ‘on’ and flowing, and therein feeling better / better feeling is never the result of adding, understanding or figuring anything out. It’s only and always an uncovering / emptying / expressing.)

 

(Feeling better / better feeling sure does seem to come from all kinds of things, substances, relationships, peak experiences, etc. ‘It’ doesn’t actually though.)

 

2 hours ago, WhiteOwl said:

And i feel like i am expressing the same things over and over again, which can make it seem like "i" am doing something wrong.

What’s the opposite? (What’s wanted?) Express about that. 

 

2 hours ago, WhiteOwl said:

I am always willing to be completely honest and do whatever it takes if i just knew what it was (to feel better), and to maybe not end up in the same places again and again. 

To feel better is to feel better. Nothing to do with knowing anything. That’s like saying if I only knew what hunger was, I’d eat. 

 

You’ve never actually moved btw. It’s always been here, always home in Being.

The truth is simple, it’s conditioning, or, adopted thought narrative that’s radical. 

 

13 hours ago, WhiteOwl said:

I don't know what it takes to realize that like you have done apparently, and a few others. Its easy to understand and it makes perfect sense, i can never find any self and i never experience it, and i can see how my thoughts are making me feel

In that experience there is an experience of my thoughts. 

In this experience there is an experience of thoughts. 

And ultimately not even.

 

It could seem as if something has been realized or done, resulting in some specialness. But nothing has been realized, nothing has been done, and nothing is specialness. 

 

2 hours ago, WhiteOwl said:

I noticed that "positive" mind stories might be focused upon a lot also, which in the end always flips into something negative.

There is no such thing as an end. There’s an experience of a thought, ‘end’, and of coming to conclusions. Notice experience ‘itself’ is still going. 

Negative is a judgment. ‘It’s’ like “evil”, the judgement is the experience of. 

Instead of framing as ‘something negative’, try, ‘there’s something to be listened to here, what is feeling relaying, or communicating, about what I’m thinkin?’

 

2 hours ago, WhiteOwl said:

"difficult" to not indulge in positive stories as they appear as a reflection when "i" feel good.

Not as a reflection. Good feeling is good feeling. Drops of water coming out of a sprinkler aren’t a reflection of the water flowing from the faucet. The drops are the water, the thoughts are feeling. 

 

[WhiteOwl]

 

@Phil Thank you very much. 🙏 This will be good to reread.

 

The statement quoted under is very true and funny. So dramatic

 

 

6 hours ago, Phil said:

There is no such thing as an end. There’s an experience of a thought, ‘end’, and of coming to conclusions. Notice experience ‘itself’ is still going.

Edited January 4, 2023 by WhiteOwl

[Kevin]

7 hours ago, Phil said:

Yeah. 🫤

 

If the thought is “I am resisting thoughts”, and this is a discordant looping thought… what’s wanted?

An easy way to discern - what’s the opposite of resisting? 

That’s what’s wanted. 

 

This stuff is making a lot more sense. Focusing on the lack of girlfriend has been kind of getting me down lately so today I started focusing on how great it will be to hang out with a girlfriend and do things with her like get sushi. This felt a lot better.

 

7 hours ago, Phil said:

 

 

The experience of meaning is created by believing thoughts. 

The more thoughts are inspected & expressed, the less believing of thoughts is experienced.

Therein the less meaning is experienced. There’s just a doer-less thinker-less I-less flow or apparent happening.

 

Suppression & contraction in the body comes up & out sometimes as meditation calms the thought activity, thus allowing it to. This is wakin up, the beginning of the end of the suffering, precisely the desired effect. It’s working. You’re over there ‘ah this is the same old stuff’, and I’m over here ‘this guy’s kickin ass, actually doin the work’.

 

I’m feeling very hopeful. Another hour of meditation this morning and things seem to be looking up.

 

7 hours ago, Phil said:

No thought could, nor will, inherently mean anything about you. Believing is required for meaning. 

No thought could ever overtake you, you are always prior to, awareness of, and untouchable by, thoughts. 

 

Feel for a beginning and or end of sensation within. Feel the spaciousness, and notice the one at a time thought is an insignificant fleeting experience relative to you, like an ant in the universe, or Phil vs Kevin in Jin Jitsu. 

 

 

Isn’t the suppression & avoidance the negativity, the bad stuff?

 

It uncovers unconditional love. Self. The Holy Grail. 

 

thank you Phil. Things are making much more sense.
 

7 hours ago, Phil said:

 

 

Simplify by putting size, time, difficulty, understanding and knowing aside. 

 

Write down (to ‘move it’ from thought to perception & have an emptied clear mind to look at it):

The thought arising is _____________. 

The emotion experienced is ____________. (Keep it simple. Reference the emotional scale.)

 

 

When it ‘does the trick’, it’s because you expressed how you feel and ‘emptied’ / unburdened.

When it doesn’t, you didn’t. When you didn’t, look for subject object thoughts, and self referential thoughts. They clog up expression & aren’t an emotion. 

https://www.actualityofbeing.com/contemplations-1

 

The ‘trick’ is because feeling better / better feeling is of one source, and that source is within. 

There is only one source, and it is always ‘on’ and flowing, and therein feeling better / better feeling is never the result of adding, understanding or figuring anything out. It’s only and always an uncovering / emptying / expressing.)

 

(Feeling better / better feeling sure does seem to come from all kinds of things, substances, relationships, peak experiences, etc. ‘It’ doesn’t actually though.)

 

What’s the opposite? (What’s wanted?) Express about that. 

 

To feel better is to feel better. Nothing to do with knowing anything. That’s like saying if I only knew what hunger was, I’d eat. 

 

You’ve never actually moved btw. It’s always been here, always home in Being.

The truth is simple, it’s conditioning, or, adopted thought narrative that’s radical. 

 

In that experience there is an experience of my thoughts. 

In this experience there is an experience of thoughts. 

And ultimately not even.

 

It could seem as if something has been realized or done, resulting in some specialness. But nothing has been realized, nothing has been done, and nothing is specialness. 

 

There is no such thing as an end. There’s an experience of a thought, ‘end’, and of coming to conclusions. Notice experience ‘itself’ is still going. 

Negative is a judgment. ‘It’s’ like “evil”, the judgement is the experience of. 

Instead of framing as ‘something negative’, try, ‘there’s something to be listened to here, what is feeling relaying, or communicating, about what I’m thinkin?’

 

Not as a reflection. Good feeling is good feeling. Drops of water coming out of a sprinkler aren’t a reflection of the water flowing from the faucet. The drops are the water, the thoughts are feeling. 

 

 

[Phil]

10 hours ago, Kevin said:

This stuff is making a lot more sense. Focusing on the lack of girlfriend has been kind of getting me down lately so today I started focusing on how great it will be to hang out with a girlfriend and do things with her like get sushi. This felt a lot better.

I’m feeling very hopeful. Another hour of meditation this morning and things seem to be looking up.

So great to hear.  I think some major dots are soon to connect with focus on absence vs on wanted & manifestation, and also as it relates to Nonduality / Truth & loneliness. Pretty major alignments in the works imo. Excited for ya brother. 

[Phil]

11 hours ago, WhiteOwl said:

The statement quoted under is very true and funny. So dramatic

😂 Indeed! 

[Kevin]

3 hours ago, Phil said:

So great to hear.  I think some major dots are soon to connect with focus on absence vs on wanted & manifestation, and also as it relates to Nonduality / Truth & loneliness. Pretty major alignments in the works imo. Excited for ya brother. 

Thanks again phil!