ACIM, the world and experience

[Blessed2]

So I'm reading The Disappearance of the Universe by Gary Renard (it talks about ACIM, the message of Jesus etc.)

 

It starts right ahead with something I've heard before, but which sounds quite different to what I've used to from other sources... That basically, the world is not created by God, but is a projection of ego-mind. Literally that life is like a projection of so-called "subconscious" belief in separation, guilt, lack, etc.

 

This resonates but at the same time I experience fear about it. I get that stuff like aging, sickness, death etc. are obviously not 'from God'... Why would infinite abundance create lack and separation etc?

 

But it feels off as if awakening would then mean that the universe literally disappears... That there is no experience, no fun and games. Or does it?

 

@Phil How does the two spheres relate to this?

[Phil]

36 minutes ago, Blessed2 said:

the world is not created by God, but is a projection of ego-mind. Literally that life is like a projection of so-called "subconscious" belief in separation, guilt, lack, etc.

That’s very astute. More so, the world, life, subconscious, ego-mind and God are all the projection of ego-mind, as it were. 

 

36 minutes ago, Blessed2 said:

 

This resonates but at the same time I experience fear about it. I get that stuff like aging, sickness, death etc. are obviously not 'from God'... Why would infinite abundance create lack and separation etc?

If there is infinite abundance, there inherently (and by definition) is no lack, separation or fear.
 

The better question imo is why do you. 
 

36 minutes ago, Blessed2 said:

 

But it feels off as if awakening would then mean that the universe literally disappears... That there is no experience, no fun and games. Or does it?

Yes, that’s what it means. “Disappears” is a pinch misleading though, as a universe has never actually appeared.  

 

36 minutes ago, Blessed2 said:

@Phil How does the two spheres relate to this?

The so called world, universe, finite mind, and infinite mind are actually just two spheres. The truth is so incredibly simple, no one can hear it.  

[Blessed2]

@Phil Damn.

 

You familiar with this book? It makes me feel nervousness. Like it's a dangerous thing to keep reading. Probably a good thing though.

 

[Phil]

@Blessed2

First I’ve heard of it. Sounds great though. I like the message of Jesus aspect. Pretty profound when it takes two thousand years for someone’s words to be understood.

 

"Those who seek should not stop seeking until they find. When they find, they will be disturbed. When they are disturbed, they will marvel, and will rule over all."

- Jesus

 

Be disturbed brother. 

 

 

"When you make the two into one, and when you make the inner like the outer and the outer like the inner, and the upper like the lower, and when you make male and female into a single one, so that the male will not be male nor the female be female, when you make eyes in place of an eye, a hand in place of a hand, a foot in place of a foot, an image in place of an image, then you will enter the kingdom of heaven."

- Jesus

 

 

[Blessed2]

8 minutes ago, Phil said:

First I’ve heard of it. Sounds great though. I like the message of Jesus aspect. Pretty profound when it takes two thousand years for someone’s words to be understood.

 

Yeah. You'd probably like it.

 

The writer tells a story and the message of when two masters appeared in his living room to chat. It is told that they lived with and were taught by the profound messenger himself. One of them says that they are in fact the one who wrote that gospel you quote. Pretty crazy stuff. 😂

 

19 minutes ago, Phil said:

Be disturbed brother. 

 

Uh-oh...

[Phil]

@Blessed2

Sweet. I probably would’ve liked it. Now it’d be like trying to read The Kama Sutra during sex. 

[Blessed2]

@Phil The infinite being forgets it's infinitude by appearing as the two spheres (or experience)... Confuses itself as limited, separate, guilty, lacking... And projects all sort of whacky nonsensical crap like bodies, birth and death, sickness, separate selves etc...?

[Phil]

4 hours ago, Blessed2 said:

@Phil The infinite being forgets it's infinitude by appearing as the two spheres (or experience)... Confuses itself as limited, separate, guilty, lacking... And projects all sort of whacky nonsensical crap like bodies, birth and death, sickness, separate selves etc...?

🎯

One could go so far as to add “infinite being” to that list, though many can not. 

[Blessed2]

On 12/6/2022 at 5:38 PM, Phil said:

🎯

One could go so far as to add “infinite being” to that list, though many can not. 

 

And energy, gravity, yin and yang, galaxies, stars... Even the immutable laws?

[Phil]

@Blessed2
Yep. Every bit, absolutely real. 

[Loop]

To enjoy the sky because it’s blue,

Is to trip over your own shoe, 

Each foot drops, 

Side by side we hop. 
 

Constantly empty of mind, 

Full of the Body, 

Boundless Awareness,

Empty of all parts.
 

Nothing within nothing,

Everything without everything,

Surfing on top of fear,

Love sinks down to clear,

Never was there two,

Every emotion is the great Stew, 

Digested properly born anew, 

Stand side by side with each shoe,

Tear drops blew,

you,

To reveal You.

 

[Blessed2]

19 hours ago, Phil said:

@Blessed2
Yep. Every bit, absolutely real. 

 

I have to ask... Why don't you talk about this more?

 

It seems kind of like ACIM etc. talks about waking up from the dream... Whereas the immutable laws, communion, creating the life you want, the emotional scale, god-source-infinite being, seems more like waking up within the dream, or dreaming sweeter dreams.

 

Seems like it's not against or incompatible with ACIM per se, just the same dream-stuff.

[Phil]

5 minutes ago, Blessed2 said:

Why don't you talk about this more?

I’m not exactly sure what you mean. Talk about what specifically more?

[Blessed2]

4 hours ago, Phil said:

I’m not exactly sure what you mean. Talk about what specifically more?

 

This kind of gnostic view of the creation.

 

For example, how Esther Hicks presents the world... As contrast and ever-expanding desire and creation, seems totally different from how ACIM talks about it.

 

Also how you've sometimes mentioned stuff like "source's generosity" etc... But now you say the source of this creation is ego.

[Phil]

11 minutes ago, Blessed2 said:

 

This kind of gnostic view of the creation.

What I share is Gnostic in that it’s unorthodox & addresses illusion & enlightenment, and also isn’t in that there isn’t an actuality of personal spiritual knowledge. 

 

11 minutes ago, Blessed2 said:

 

For example, how Esther Hicks presents the world... As contrast and ever-expanding desire and creation, seems totally different from how ACIM talks about it.

I haven’t read ACIM - but from what I hear it seems much more orthodox and encourages personal spiritual knowledge, and aims to reveal truth in the now or day to day miracle of living or experience. I might be way off here though, idk. 

 

11 minutes ago, Blessed2 said:

 

Also how you've sometimes mentioned stuff like "source's generosity" etc... But now you say the source of this creation is ego.

 

I don’t recall saying source’s generosity or that the source of creation is ego. Maybe you could paste that here so I could see the context…?

[Blessed2]

33 minutes ago, Phil said:

I haven’t read ACIM - but from what I hear it seems much more orthodox and encourages personal spiritual knowledge, and aims to reveal truth in the now or day to day miracle of living or experience. I might be way off here though, idk. 

 

Here's the message shared in ACIM in a nutshell. Apparently from J himself:

 

You are dreaming of desert where you are being lead and tortured by mirages, but these images have come from you.

 

Father did not create the desert, and your home is still with Him.

 

To make your way back home, forgive your borthers, as you forgive yourself in doing so.

 

The Course is presented as 'pure nonduality' as in that Truth is put in only two words: God is. (Hence, anything "else" is not).

 

Like I mentioned in the original post, we / I created the desert and torturing mirages... Perhaps it could be put this way: in the "beginning", there was only God (and only God ever is) though in this limitlessness, we or I (the Son of God) had a nonsensical thought... That what if there was something else than God? This lead to the first separation (which never happened but seemed to happen) and guilt + fear ensued... We thought we had done something unforgivable, something against God, and that we are guilty, and God's gonna punish us. And from this confusion, guilt and fear, more and more separation (which never happened) came forth, eventually in a form of birth and death, bodies, space and time, energy etc etc... If we take a look around in our world, even trees and plants separate in branches and leaves... And nature we often mistake as holy or divine, is actually just constant fight, death... As if all we see and experience is like a metaphor for the separation, guilt and fear we think is actual (but is not).

 

How I've come to understand it, the forgiveness (which is the central method of awakening presented in ACIM) is that you see your brothers and sisters as innocent, and thus open up to that you yourself are innocent... Which is an undoing of the ego-mind's confusions.

 

I might post a more in-depth summary of this at some point, if that's okay.

 

1 hour ago, Phil said:

I don’t recall saying source’s generosity or that the source of creation is ego. Maybe you could paste that here so I could see the context…?

 

You said earlier in this thread:

 

On 12/5/2022 at 10:13 PM, Phil said:

That’s very astute. More so, the world, life, subconscious, ego-mind and God are all the projection of ego-mind, as it were. 

 

I think you have mentioned source's generosity etc somewhere. My point though was that what I've seen talked on AoB sounds quite different from what I hear from ACIM. This might just be my confusion though, just trying to make sense of it all... Pretty disturbing stuff indeed. 😅

[James123]

32 minutes ago, Blessed2 said:

Truth is put in only two words: God is.

What is god?

[Phil]

1 hour ago, Blessed2 said:

 

Here's the message shared in ACIM in a nutshell. Apparently from J himself:

 

You are dreaming of desert where you are being lead and tortured by mirages, but these images have come from you.

 

Father did not create the desert, and your home is still with Him.

 

To make your way back home, forgive your borthers, as you forgive yourself in doing so.

 

The Course is presented as 'pure nonduality' as in that Truth is put in only two words: God is. (Hence, anything "else" is not).

Not that I have any issue with the terminology whatsoever… but ‘God is’, is monotheism, in stating what is. Whereas ‘nonduality’ simply states what isn’t, ‘not two’, or ‘no second’ 

 

1 hour ago, Blessed2 said:

 

Like I mentioned in the original post, we / I created the desert and torturing mirages... Perhaps it could be put this way: in the "beginning", there was only God (and only God ever is) though in this limitlessness, we or I (the Son of God) had a nonsensical thought... That what if there was something else than God? This lead to the first separation (which never happened but seemed to happen) and guilt + fear ensued... We thought we had done something unforgivable, something against God, and that we are guilty, and God's gonna punish us. And from this confusion, guilt and fear, more and more separation (which never happened) came forth, eventually in a form of birth and death, bodies, space and time, energy etc etc... If we take a look around in our world, even trees and plants separate in branches and leaves... And nature we often mistake as holy or divine, is actually just constant fight, death... As if all we see and experience is like a metaphor for the separation, guilt and fear we think is actual (but is not).

😳

 

1 hour ago, Blessed2 said:

 

How I've come to understand it, the forgiveness (which is the central method of awakening presented in ACIM) is that you see your brothers and sisters as innocent, and thus open up to that you yourself are innocent... Which is an undoing of the ego-mind's confusions.

🙂

 

1 hour ago, Blessed2 said:

 

I might post a more in-depth summary of this at some point, if that's okay.

That’s be awesome, thanks! 

 

1 hour ago, Blessed2 said:

 

 

You said earlier in this thread:

That’s very astute. More so, the world, life, subconscious, ego-mind and God are all the projection of ego-mind, as it were. 

Vs

 "source's generosity"… the source of this creation is ego.

 

I think you have mentioned source's generosity etc somewhere. My point though was that what I've seen talked on AoB sounds quite different from what I hear from ACIM. This might just be my confusion though, just trying to make sense of it all...

Not sure about ‘sources generosity’. Maybe abundance. 

 

I’m not suggesting ego is the source of creation, or anything at all really. If anything, ego is the ‘source’ of all ‘things’.

Sensitive thing to say perhaps, but God being a projection of ego or ego-mind could be considered, or contemplated as a possibility. 

 

Just ‘two cents’, but I wouldn’t be looking for different pieces of material to be congruent. Points will never be. But all pointings point to one & the same. I’d be oriented what that might be. 

 

1 hour ago, Blessed2 said:

Pretty disturbing stuff indeed. 😅

😂 Oh yes … and yet…  MOST worthwhile. 

[Blessed2]

9 hours ago, Phil said:

Not that I have any issue with the terminology whatsoever… but ‘God is’, is monotheism, in stating what is. Whereas ‘nonduality’ simply states what isn’t, ‘not two’, or ‘no second’ 

 

This is actually exactly what the book mentions as 'pure nonduality'. For some reason they use the word "god" though. Might be the 'message of Jesus' aspect playing out.

 

9 hours ago, Phil said:

I’m not suggesting ego is the source of creation, or anything at all really. If anything, ego is the ‘source’ of all ‘things’.

 

Resonates a lot.

 

9 hours ago, Phil said:

Sensitive thing to say perhaps, but God being a projection of ego or ego-mind could be considered, or contemplated as a possibility. 

 

Just ‘two cents’, but I wouldn’t be looking for different pieces of material to be congruent. Points will never be. But all pointings point to one & the same. I’d be oriented what that might be. 

 

Thanks, will do! Probably at last time for that morning meditation. 😂

[Blessed2]

10 hours ago, James123 said:

What is god?

 

I don't know. 😂😂