Fear of discordant beliefs and thoughts

[Serenity]

@Indisguise

 

I'm sorry for my post yesterday. I think you might have fallen victim to a pain body aggression on my end. 🥺

 

Much love to you and thank you for trying to help,

[Serenity]

@Phil

 

It's seems like shame and fear are the same thing. Am I correct?  Fear is always the impression not to be enough, not being able to cope, and shame is the same.

 

I have always been wondering why shame wasn't on the scale, so maybe that's my answer?

[Serenity]

@Phil

 

Could you write a post or give me some informations on absolute love, unity, etc?

 

I think that a lot of the problem I have is that I am afraid that I am not being held by the universe's unconditional love and I'll be left to die as a separate self. I think my fear of conditionality is what actually is at the bottom of the fear.

 

Not being enough= believing in conditionality

 

I have been obsessed my whole life with conditional love, performance, etc. 

[Phil]

1 hour ago, Serenity said:

@Phil

 

It's seems like shame and fear are the same thing. Am I correct?  Fear is always the impression not to be enough, not being able to cope, and shame is the same.

 

I have always been wondering why shame wasn't on the scale, so maybe that's my answer?

Yes, same ‘thing’; love, infinite you, the only teacher there is. 

 

56 minutes ago, Serenity said:

@Phil

 

Could you write a post or give me some informations on absolute love, unity, etc?

 

I think that a lot of the problem I have is that I am afraid that I am not being held by the universe's unconditional love and I'll be left to die as a separate self. I think my fear of conditionality is what actually is at the bottom of the fear.

 

Not being enough= believing in conditionality

 

I have been obsessed my whole life with conditional love, performance, etc. 

Look around now. Take a deep breath & relax… This is ‘your whole life’. There is no thing outside of or beyond This. 

The entire experience including the body and thoughts is made of, is, awareness. 

What is aware?

[Serenity]

4 minutes ago, Phil said:

What is aware?

Everything. Consciousness. Life. Love. What is. I

 

What can't be named.

[Phil]

@Serenity

Apparently there’s a belief going around, an ism, called panpsychism in which it is believed the universe, or all things, or everything, or life, are aware. 

[Serenity]

1 minute ago, Phil said:

@Serenity

Apparently there’s a belief going around, an ism, called panpsychism in which it is believed the universe, or all things, or everything, or life, are aware. 

You are trying to trick me here @Phil

 

The actuality of it is true, yet one can understand it through a belief and being caught and identified with the belief.

As I am writing these words, I am unfortunately indeed in the former.

 

But there are moments of lucidity, cracking up the belief and just being it.

[Serenity]

And there isn't a Phil to trick me, I know.

 

Through a belief of knowing and panpsychism, fair enough! 😄

[Phil]

@Serenity

No, definitely not trying to trick you. Panpsychism is often purported to be true & can be a convincing conjecture. The actuality of panpsychism is that it’s a belief, inherent in that it’s an ism.  Like Mormonism or solipsism, it’s the activity of thought. The universe, or all things, or everything, or life, are not aware.

[Serenity]

3 minutes ago, Phil said:

@Serenity

No, definitely not trying to trick you. Panpsychism is often purported to be true & can be a convincing conjecture. The actuality of panpsychism is that it’s a belief, inherent in that it’s an ism.  Like Mormonism or solipsism, it’s the activity of thought. The universe, or all things, or everything, or life, are not aware.

For them to be aware, they would need to be a separate self, which they aren't. All is one.

 

But it's not a belief to conceptualize but a reality to be felt. Oneness. One experience. 

 

It can't be there is fear is still felt like I do, because fear is a belief in separation/dualism.

[anattadroid]

3 hours ago, Serenity said:

 

That's the problem. It's a catch-22. 

 

My take on it is that I get caught in the thoughts because the emotions that allows it are there in the first place. The thoughts just end up reasoning because it stimulates a combination of shame, fear, powerlessness, unworthiness and my dread of being stuck in the loop. 

 

I actually have a lifetime of unadressed fears, shame, powerlessness etc. So that's why these thoughts are getting stick, and actually even act almost like a belief.

 

I think somewhere, for me the shameless thing that can be is what I am experiencing right now. Parts of me really value being effective in relative matters and I am afraid I'll be a failure because I get stuck due to these emotions, if that makes sense.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Yes you may have attached yourself to these fears of feeling shame and powerlessness kinds of emotions as something 'personal'  and that's why they are constantly reappearing, you keep mistaking them as something 'wrong' that needs to be fixed or changed and what does is has your mind worry endlessly about how to fix them and avoid them or get rid of them instead of just remaining mindful, accepting everything as it arises, facing it as it comes up and discarding it by not reacting, every single time, each time

 

It's an old script, an old program that when you keep buying into it has you going on believing it to be a real true story about yourself because it feels so real and it is real to the extent you get entangeled, I suggest bringing metta towards yourself in the case of radically allowing yourself to feel these things and nurturing yourself but not in the case to get rid of but to hold a space of allowing reality to be the way it arises.

 

Tara Brachs RAIN is a pretty effective technique you can practice if that helps.

[Serenity]

35 minutes ago, anattadroid said:

 

Yes you may have attached yourself to these fears of feeling shame and powerlessness kinds of emotions as something 'personal'  and that's why they are constantly reappearing, you keep mistaking them as something 'wrong' that needs to be fixed or changed and what does is has your mind worry endlessly about how to fix them and avoid them or get rid of them instead of just remaining mindful, accepting everything as it arises, facing it as it comes up and discarding it by not reacting, every single time, each time

 

It's an old script, an old program that when you keep buying into it has you going on believing it to be a real true story about yourself because it feels so real and it is real to the extent you get entangeled, I suggest bringing metta towards yourself in the case of radically allowing yourself to feel these things and nurturing yourself but not in the case to get rid of but to hold a space of allowing reality to be the way it arises.

 

Tara Brachs RAIN is a pretty effective technique you can practice if that helps.

Yes, that has been part of my conclusions!

 

What's going on is that I have been doing a lot of emotional awareness type of work lately and all the stuff I didn't know how to address and had coping mechanism of all sort to avoid is coming up to the surface like a geyser. 

 

(couldn't find a geyser so that volcano will do it)

 

Yummy yummy.  Fear, shame, powerlessness.  Who wants some? 'I' have got plenty of that threat.  At least I have a feeling of abundance there! 😬 😙

 

Btw, I love Tara Brach's work. She's been a great teacher to me.

 

[Serenity]

Interesting shift, for those who might be interested. I always had a tendency to look at my fear and shame like a HORRIBLE beast, almost demon like within me. Fighting me off.  It was causing me such disgust and terror to look at it that this is all that it inspired me.

 

But suddenly, 5 minutes ago it shifted. I see it rightfully like a wounded, innocent, precious child that wants to be held.

[Phil]

@Serenity

🙂

Also, as far as the loop goes… the more emotion is allowed to be felt & expressed, the clearer it gets that there isn’t per se a ‘fear of feeling fear’, because fear’s an emotion and emotion is felt - only ever, now. There are thoughts about a potential emotion felt in the future, but it is that thought & corresponding emotion which is actually felt, now. So if you can, as you just shared, be willing to feel whatever emotion you’re already feeling now… there won’t be much concern or worry about feeling it “in the future”. The only ‘time’ ever experienced, is right now. 

[Serenity]

10 hours ago, Phil said:

@Serenity

🙂

Also, as far as the loop goes… the more emotion is allowed to be felt & expressed, the clearer it gets that there isn’t per se a ‘fear of feeling fear’, because fear’s an emotion and emotion is felt - only ever, now. There are thoughts about a potential emotion felt in the future, but it is that thought & corresponding emotion which is actually felt, now. So if you can, as you just shared, be willing to feel whatever emotion you’re already feeling now… there won’t be much concern or worry about feeling it “in the future”. The only ‘time’ ever experienced, is right now. 

So, to sum up, when it comes to fear, the only thing that matters is to stay with the emotion. The thoughts coming with it do not matter and should not be believed in because if they come with fear and shame it's a sign they are discordant?

 

I also understand one should not worry about thoughts telling an emotion is going to be there in the future (though, I am sometimes forgetting it, and biting in the discordant thought).

 

A question that I still have is whether staying with the emotion is enough, as such as as observing its effect through the body, feeling its tingling sensation in the awareness, even if nothing seems to be happening or dissolving for a while? I know things are moving when the emotion is expelled through my tears for exemple. 

 

Much love... 🤍

[Phil]

1 minute ago, Serenity said:

So, to sum up, when it comes to fear, the only thing that matters is to stay with the emotion. The thoughts coming with it do not matter and should not be believed in because if they come with fear and shame it's a sign they are discordant?

Yes. When it comes to what you’re calling fear, all that ‘matters’ is discovering there’s no such thing. 

Resistance to the guidance that ‘tells you so’, results in perpetuating the self referential belief in fear. 

Allowing what is to be what is, since what is is what is, closes the belief - the identity - ‘gap’.

Resistance only perpetuates the futility of denying what is. 

You are right-now-creating, and there is no assertion. No one stopping you from creating what you prefer to create… and ‘the guidance’ tells ‘you’ so, unequivocally, as absolute certainty, without exception, without fail. 

1 minute ago, Serenity said:

I also understand one should not worry about thoughts telling an emotion is going to be there in the future (though, I am sometimes forgetting it, and biting in the discordant thought).

It’s not that there is worrying about thoughts, and then wether one should or shouldn’t.

There is no worrying about thoughts. That is like a unicorn. There is the thought of it, but the actual experience does not exist, does not ever actually happen. 

Worry is how some thoughts feel. Feeling is never in a future. Feeling is never wrong.  Worry felt now is related only to thoughts experienced now. 

It’s not about what one should or shouldn’t do. If there is worry, there is already and right-now-only - worry. 

Thoughts can, content wise, be about a ‘future’. Emotion is always present… because you are always presence. 

There is no one actually thinking, doing or moving. YOU appear as if there is, for you. 

The entire “universe”, whole of experience, the entirety of creation is - for you, unthinkably infinite awareness. 

 

The profound beauty of the guidance is it’s real-time, ever-present, absolutely effortless and entirely relative to and absolutely supportive of arising aligned preferences. 

Once it ‘clicks’, it simultaneously clicks that there is no need whatsoever to remember not to fear, not to worry, or really anything at all… because feeling (actual intelligence) is always present. The true nature Is inherently guidance. (For no one). 

1 minute ago, Serenity said:

 

A question that I still have is whether staying with the emotion is enough, as such as as observing its effect through the body, feeling its tingling sensation in the awareness, even if nothing seems to be happening or dissolving for a while? I know things are moving when the emotion is expelled through my tears for exemple. 

 

Much love... 🤍

Go inward to the very bottom of the ocean; drown yourself in yourself. Feel prior to, and prior to, and prior to. Feel into the body, into the fear, into the shame, into the sadness, into the sorrow, into Self. It will be seen all ‘thoughts’ are surface ‘level’. 

[Serenity]

On 11/24/2022 at 12:44 PM, Phil said:

Yes. When it comes to what you’re calling fear, all that ‘matters’ is discovering there’s no such thing. 

Resistance to the guidance that ‘tells you so’, results in perpetuating the self referential belief in fear. 

Allowing what is to be what is, since what is is what is, closes the belief - the identity - ‘gap’.

Resistance only perpetuates the futility of denying what is. 

You are right-now-creating, and there is no assertion. No one stopping you from creating what you prefer to create… and ‘the guidance’ tells ‘you’ so, unequivocally, as absolute certainty, without exception, without fail. 

It’s not that there is worrying about thoughts, and then wether one should or shouldn’t.

There is no worrying about thoughts. That is like a unicorn. There is the thought of it, but the actual experience does not exist, does not ever actually happen. 

Worry is how some thoughts feel. Feeling is never in a future. Feeling is never wrong.  Worry felt now is related only to thoughts experienced now. 

It’s not about what one should or shouldn’t do. If there is worry, there is already and right-now-only - worry. 

Thoughts can, content wise, be about a ‘future’. Emotion is always present… because you are always presence. 

There is no one actually thinking, doing or moving. YOU appear as if there is, for you. 

The entire “universe”, whole of experience, the entirety of creation is - for you, unthinkably infinite awareness. 

 

The profound beauty of the guidance is it’s real-time, ever-present, absolutely effortless and entirely relative to and absolutely supportive of arising aligned preferences. 

Once it ‘clicks’, it simultaneously clicks that there is no need whatsoever to remember not to fear, not to worry, or really anything at all… because feeling (actual intelligence) is always present. The true nature Is inherently guidance. (For no one). 

Go inward to the very bottom of the ocean; drown yourself in yourself. Feel prior to, and prior to, and prior to. Feel into the body, into the fear, into the shame, into the sadness, into the sorrow, into Self. It will be seen all ‘thoughts’ are surface ‘level’. 

I'm meditating on this.

 

Thank you. It is very useful. 🤍