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Fear of discordant beliefs and thoughts


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Suffering, discordant thoughts and believes, and getting identified with them in general is causing me a lot of fear.

I think that since I recognize unconsciousness as the root of all problem, I hate when I realize I've been 'caught' by it and it generates fear that it will keep going again.

 

And then, it becomes a bit the pink elephant I should not think of. It generates fear in me. And the fear generates more fearful thoughts etc. And then I realize i'm caught in a discordant loop. 😬

 

@Phil help me out of there! I feel stuck, afraid, powerless and discordant.

“Know yourself as nothing; feel yourself as everything.” - Rupert Spira

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Also, from an emotional standpoint, I hate being or feeling unconscious. It threatens the spiritual ego I have, turning it all insecure.

 

I understand a spiritual ego is not even real, but as long as I am still having an ego, at least it should be as healthy/sane as possible

“Know yourself as nothing; feel yourself as everything.” - Rupert Spira

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It is ok, 

Trust Feeling, 

Catching the wake of the Wave,

Brings you into your Center Brave, 

Arise again up the trunk, 

Allow the me’s to be sunk.

 

Feeling won’t take you far,

Just back to where you really are,

The Light of the Star.

 

🤍🧠👀

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7 minutes ago, Loop said:

It is ok, 

Trust Feeling, 

Catching the wake of the Wave,

Brings you into your Center Brave, 

Arise again up the trunk, 

Allow the me’s to be sunk.

 

Feeling won’t take you far,

Just back to where you really are,

The Light of the Star.

 

 

🤧

 

🤍

 

Thank you for sharing beauty. Your poem touched something deep in me and I cried a few tears.

 

“Know yourself as nothing; feel yourself as everything.” - Rupert Spira

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1 minute ago, Indisguise said:

Why be afraid of something that is inevitable?

Fear isn't logical.

 

There are people out there putting themselves in mad panic at the view of a spider or a mice.

“Know yourself as nothing; feel yourself as everything.” - Rupert Spira

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3 minutes ago, Serenity said:

Fear isn't logical.

Didn't say that it is. But you're afraid of something that was there all your life and that will be there all your life. 

And how exactly is "unconsciousness" the root of all problems? Seems kinda overkill to me to attribute any suffering to unconsciousness. As if there's something inherently wrong with you, i.e. you "being unconscious"  that caused your suffering. 

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23 minutes ago, Indisguise said:

Didn't say that it is. But you're afraid of something that was there all your life and that will be there all your life. 

And how exactly is "unconsciousness" the root of all problems? Seems kinda overkill to me to attribute any suffering to unconsciousness. As if there's something inherently wrong with you, i.e. you "being unconscious"  that caused your suffering. 

I'd say, the root cause of the problem is the fear, as well as the massive feeling of separation that happen in these moments. The thoughts, believes etc are just the trigger to it. 

 

Also, in the past, there wasn't an association between 'bad thoughts' and that fear.

 

Anyway, while I surely appreciate your help, I would really be thankful if I weren't put in a position where I have to explain or justify the validity of my suffering further.

 

This thread is directed at @Phil

Edited by Serenity

“Know yourself as nothing; feel yourself as everything.” - Rupert Spira

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So, I just had a panic attack. And it got bad, and I turned on a video of Eckhart Tolle on anxiety and fear management.

 

It put me in a right setting and I felt encouraged to focus on the emotion of fear and allow it. It came strongly in my body and I felt even an urgency to vomit. Curiously, this time the fear didn't manage to get into my head and I could in all awareness sit with the massive flow of uncomfortable energy lashing out in my body.

 

It was difficult but fruitful. I've came to realize I have a large build up of unprocessed fear in my subconscious. I have a lifetime history of avoiding fear because it is such an unpleasant sensation. The emotion then probably find any occasion to get activated, but the trigger is a distraction.

 

I am going to open up a journal and talk about the fear that I have, so it gets hopefully processed slowly.

“Know yourself as nothing; feel yourself as everything.” - Rupert Spira

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@Serenity

 

Fear is an emotion and is guidance like all other emotions. Think of jealousy or overwhelment. There wouldn’t be jealousy or overwhelment of thoughts. Emotion is guidance about thoughts, beliefs, perspectives or interpretations. Emotion is how thoughts feel, which let’s you know something is ‘off’. So essentially, there is a thought or interpretation with which fear is felt, letting you know that you the way you’re thinking about something isn’t necessarily true or accurate. 

 

6 hours ago, Serenity said:

Suffering, discordant thoughts and believes, and getting identified with them in general is causing me a lot of fear.

Hopefully some ‘space’ around this is felt when reading this… if any one experienced the same thoughts, any one would experience the same emotions.

As far as identifying with thoughts and beliefs, with which fear is felt… the fear is how you know whatever the thoughts or belief are, aren’t true about you. 

Feel the relief & alignment in purposefully bringing the opposite thought to mind, wether believed or not - feel how it feels. Note the subtle feeling of relief. 

 

6 hours ago, Serenity said:

I think that since I recognize unconsciousness as the root of all problem, I hate when I realize I've been 'caught' by it and it generates fear that it will keep going again.

The Good News is consciousness is infinite, not dualistic or dual. There’s no actuality of unconsciousness. 

Because consciousness is infinite love… fear could very well be the emotional guidance felt when the thought of or belief in an “unconsciousness” is focused on. 

Feel that out and see again if there is the different felt in terms of discord & alignment. Feel for subtle relief. 

 

6 hours ago, Serenity said:

 

And then, it becomes a bit the pink elephant I should not think of. It generates fear in me. And the fear generates more fearful thoughts etc. And then I realize i'm caught in a discordant loop. 😬

 

@Phil help me out of there! I feel stuck, afraid, powerless and discordant.

Focus vs “thinker thinking”. There is no one to tell you what you should or shouldn’t focus on. Let that weight / pressure go. Focus on love. Be loving instead. Feel the difference. Love whatever it is the fear is about. Feel the power of love… which is infinite truth… compared to the emotion of fear, about one thought or belief. Allow & feel that difference. 

 

The loop is a thought loop. Thought loops end the instant what is is recognized, and what is already is that you are not in thoughts or thought loops… you are awareness aware of thoughts or thought loops. 

 

6 hours ago, Serenity said:

Also, from an emotional standpoint, I hate being or feeling unconscious. It threatens the spiritual ego I have, turning it all insecure.

There’s no such thing or experience as being or feeling unconscious. Again, this is probably why it feels so off. It’s believing you yourself, infinite consciousness, love, is dualistic, as if conscious & unconscious, or as if there is consciousness and unconsciousness. There could be interpretation coming up related to death, and the guidance might be relaying that death isn’t an end of consciousness, but is love. This could be related to a belief that the person, human or body is conscious, as compared to is the vibrational appearance of you, consciousness, love. 

 

6 hours ago, Serenity said:

 

I understand a spiritual ego is not even real, but as long as I am still having an ego, at least it should be as healthy/sane as possible

There aren’t unhealthy & healthy egos. An ego is not something any one actually has. 

 

4 hours ago, Serenity said:

So, I just had a panic attack. And it got bad, and I turned on a video of Eckhart Tolle on anxiety and fear management.

 

It put me in a right setting and I felt encouraged to focus on the emotion of fear and allow it. It came strongly in my body and I felt even an urgency to vomit. Curiously, this time the fear didn't manage to get into my head and I could in all awareness sit with the massive flow of uncomfortable energy lashing out in my body.

 

It was difficult but fruitful. I've came to realize I have a large build up of unprocessed fear in my subconscious. I have a lifetime history of avoiding fear because it is such an unpleasant sensation. The emotion then probably find any occasion to get activated, but the trigger is a distraction.

 

I am going to open up a journal and talk about the fear that I have, so it gets hopefully processed slowly.

Great work. Keep allowing the guidance, feeling into it, receiving it.. vs averting away or resisting or wanting to not feel it. Think - I could live with this feeling for the rest of my life and be perfectly fine… to lesson the resistance. 

 

Also, I would frame fear as felt in the body, and therefore not subconscious at all. The difference is consciousness is conscious of the entirety, every last aspect that has anything to do with this. “Subconscious” would imply outside of consciousness, as if there were a mystery or un-experienced aspect, or maybe more “below the surface”. This makes it clearer & easier to recognize that the fear is an emotion, and is not subconscious, but is, and is the guidance of, infinite consciousness. 

 

 

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18 minutes ago, Phil said:

@Serenity

 

Fear is an emotion and is guidance like all other emotions. Think of jealousy or overwhelment. There wouldn’t be jealousy or overwhelment of thoughts. Emotion is guidance about thoughts, beliefs, perspectives or interpretations. Emotion is how thoughts feel, which let’s you know something is ‘off’. So essentially, there is a thought or interpretation with which fear is felt, letting you know that you the way you’re thinking about something isn’t necessarily true or accurate. 

 

I see it. 🙏

 

I had a lot of pieces of the puzzle, because I have been working emotions and realized how they are sending us a message about what current perspective we hold on things. But I never astutely made the link between the perspective an emotion takes and the discord with the true nature of Self and reality. Somewhat I always stopped at the separate self having emotions, without taking them guidance for these emotions being untrue.

 

I think I really need to become better at the guidance. From my perspective, it's a bit like my experience is a car, and I know everything about car but I have currently the sensation I don't know how to drive it, if it makes sense. And noticing that these thoughts aren't true or accurante doesn't stop the feeling of fear and shame (as in having the fear + a feeling I am not capable or enough to make it go away arise). There is also a strong feeling of despair and being stuck.

 

I sit with the feelings. Sometimes I recognize them as feelings and they don't catch me. I stay with them. And then, suddenly I bite into them and I get identified with the thought and beliefs they won't go away.  When I focus on the feelings, it's unpleasant but doing so and focusing on the sensation without listening to the narrative or believing the perspectives the thoughts say feels like how it diminishes.

 

I try to surrender to the sensation and accept them, and recognize the discordant perspective as rubbish.

 

41 minutes ago, Phil said:

 

 

Hopefully some ‘space’ around this is felt when reading this… if any one experienced the same thoughts, any one would experience the same emotions.

As far as identifying with thoughts and beliefs, with which fear is felt… the fear is how you know whatever the thoughts or belief are, aren’t true about you. 

Feel the relief & alignment in purposefully bringing the opposite thought to mind, wether believed or not - feel how it feels. Note the subtle feeling of relief. 

 

Yes. Overall there is a lot of space, except that there are also pieces that bite into the thoughts, every now and then. There is a lot of negative self-referential thoughts of low frequency passing by at a rather high speed all fearing I am not enough to deal with the moment. I also have the feeling its never going to do away but I recognize it all as beliefs and thoughts right now. I still focus on the feelings and try to accept the fear and stay in the body. Sometimes, there are quit tears falling on my cheeks and they seem like I succeed in releasing bits and bits of fear progressively. Though, I don't want to push the agenda the fear should go away and be in acceptance.

 

I see none of this is true. I feel the relief. It seems like a lifetime of thoughts and beliefs identification with the fear of not being enough is being seen and trying to get out. I feel overwhelmed by the task like there is a lot of emotional release to happen and it won't go away in one single night.  Yet I don't want to give up on more release.

 

1 hour ago, Phil said:

The Good News is consciousness is infinite, not dualistic or dual. There’s no actuality of unconsciousness. 

Because consciousness is infinite love… fear could very well be the emotional guidance felt when the thought of or belief in an “unconsciousness” is focused on. 

Feel that out and see again if there is the different felt in terms of discord & alignment. Feel for subtle relief. 

 

Yes, fear comes the rejection. I used to reject a lot of things as bad, and even would have a lot of self-referential thoughts about "me" being bad, not good enough. But it's all an illusion. It was all myopia. It was all dualistic.

 

The is indeed nothing as such as unconsciousness because everthing is consciousness. I feel a lot of relief, right now at least. I see where it go. All is one so there is nothing to fear.

 

1 hour ago, Phil said:

There aren’t unhealthy & healthy egos. An ego is not something any one actually has. 

 

Fair enough. There is no one to have an ego.

 

But you still get what I mean. If no one, actually believe it has an ego, this ego is better off when there isn't too much repression, emotions at the bottom of the scale and discordant beliefs.

 

 

 

 

 

“Know yourself as nothing; feel yourself as everything.” - Rupert Spira

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1 hour ago, Phil said:

Great work. Keep allowing the guidance, feeling into it, receiving it.. vs averting away or resisting or wanting to not feel it. Think - I could live with this feeling for the rest of my life and be perfectly fine… to lesson the resistance. 

 

Thank you, Phil.

 

It's been one hell of a night. I am surrounded by tissues and feel like there has been a lot of release.  I also had to several time accept it and be like "whatever, I accept that you are here for as long as you want". A few time, I cracked a joke for myself like "well, hehe, the adrenaline rush is actually something people like, let's see what is pleasurable in it. I get a great supply for free it seems. ".😅🤣

 

1 hour ago, Phil said:

Also, I would frame fear as felt in the body, and therefore not subconscious at all. The difference is consciousness is conscious of the entirety, every last aspect that has anything to do with this. “Subconscious” would imply outside of consciousness, as if there were a mystery or un-experienced aspect, or maybe more “below the surface”. This makes it clearer & easier to recognize that the fear is an emotion, and is not subconscious, but is, and is the guidance of, infinite consciousness. 

 

 

 

Okay. Well, I was referring to some psychological terminology I work with. But thanks for this point, it's actually an interesting element to keep in mind. 

 

“Know yourself as nothing; feel yourself as everything.” - Rupert Spira

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7 hours ago, Serenity said:

So, I just had a panic attack.

Awe, sending you good vibes 💕

I had one last week brought on by the dentist. He gave me novacaine then left the room for awhile to let it kick in and  the epinephrine in it had me start shaking like a leaf, also it felt like I couldn't swallow because I was numb back to my throat. He walked in and I started to explain what was happening, then the crying started thinking I was going into anaphylactic shock! 😭 I'm a nurse, so of course if I think I can't swallow, then I'm immediately dying!!!

 

Then, once I realized I was literally having a panic attack I sorta laughed 😅 and said, "oh, guess I over reacted, let's get the show on the road already!" Lol.  But, seriously, he said "yep, I see a lot of panic attacks around here, lol".  I love my dentist. He's the best. 

 

 

 

 

You're a thought. Do you think a thought is going to occupy 'no thought'.

The 'changeless' can be realized only when the 
ever-changing thought-flow stops.

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19 hours ago, Serenity said:

Suffering, discordant thoughts and believes, and getting identified with them in general is causing me a lot of fear.

I think that since I recognize unconsciousness as the root of all problem, I hate when I realize I've been 'caught' by it and it generates fear that it will keep going again.

 

And then, it becomes a bit the pink elephant I should not think of. It generates fear in me. And the fear generates more fearful thoughts etc. And then I realize i'm caught in a discordant loop. 😬

 

@Phil help me out of there! I feel stuck, afraid, powerless and discordant.

 

Infact the very fear of getting identified with discordant thoughts is just itself another thought that you can let go of and return to the attitude of safety, security and enjoyment of whatever it is you're experiencing in this here and now.

The feeling of being stuck and powerless is because you are mistaking aversion with mindfulness to what is arising in your experience and that is creating an anxious pattern you're now experiencing. 

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10 hours ago, Faith said:

Awe, sending you good vibes 💕

I had one last week brought on by the dentist. He gave me novacaine then left the room for awhile to let it kick in and  the epinephrine in it had me start shaking like a leaf, also it felt like I couldn't swallow because I was numb back to my throat. He walked in and I started to explain what was happening, then the crying started thinking I was going into anaphylactic shock! 😭 I'm a nurse, so of course if I think I can't swallow, then I'm immediately dying!!!

 

Then, once I realized I was literally having a panic attack I sorta laughed 😅 and said, "oh, guess I over reacted, let's get the show on the road already!" Lol.  But, seriously, he said "yep, I see a lot of panic attacks around here, lol".  I love my dentist. He's the best. 

 

Thank you. Much much much love to you too, Faith.

 

Oh yeah, I suppose medical professional are potentially very much subject to fear due to having so much insider knowledge on health matter, body function and... being confronted with illness. A lot of fear must get packed in the body.

 

Cool your dentist is such a kind person. It's so important to love back people who are supposed to take care of your health!

 

 

“Know yourself as nothing; feel yourself as everything.” - Rupert Spira

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15 minutes ago, anattadroid said:

 

Infact the very fear of getting identified with discordant thoughts is just itself another thought that you can let go of and return to the attitude of safety, security and enjoyment of whatever it is you're experiencing in this here and now.

The feeling of being stuck and powerless is because you are mistaking aversion with mindfulness to what is arising in your experience and that is creating an anxious pattern you're now experiencing. 

 

That's the problem. It's a catch-22. 

 

My take on it is that I get caught in the thoughts because the emotions that allows it are there in the first place. The thoughts just end up reasoning because it stimulates a combination of shame, fear, powerlessness, unworthiness and my dread of being stuck in the loop. 

 

I actually have a lifetime of unadressed fears, shame, powerlessness etc. So that's why these thoughts are getting stick, and actually even act almost like a belief.

 

I think somewhere, for me the shameless thing that can be is what I am experiencing right now. Parts of me really value being effective in relative matters and I am afraid I'll be a failure because I get stuck due to these emotions, if that makes sense.

 

 

 

 

 

“Know yourself as nothing; feel yourself as everything.” - Rupert Spira

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