Approval seeking

Omelette · October 22, 2022

What does it mean to be approval seeking?

I experience this when interacting with others when I care more about how they will react to me, than how I feel.

I want others to like me, if they do, that means I am doing something right. I need to find out what it was that I was doing right and repeat it, or else I will lose "it" (whatever it is that caused me to be liked).

If others treat me badly, it's because I'm wrong... either because something is wrong with me fundamentally, or because I am simply not confident enough to stop others from doing this.

This seems to be the pattern behind approval seeking

Fear of being judged
Fear of ostracization
Fear of rejection
Fear of eye contact
Wanting to be liked
Belief of not being enough, in terms of confidence, charisma

What can be done about these beliefs. How does one stop being approval seeking?

Phil · October 22, 2022

3 hours ago, Omelette said:

What does it mean to be approval seeking?

It’s conditional emotional behavior from receiving too little or too much attention in childhood. But how you feel is more significant & relevant than what it means.

https://psychcentral.com/health/steps-to-stop-seeking-approval-from-others

3 hours ago, Omelette said:

I experience this when interacting with others when I care more about how they will react to me, than how I feel.

If you could experience amazing reactions from everyone you encounter but never feel happiness, would you?

3 hours ago, Omelette said:

I want others to like me, if they do, that means I am doing something right. I need to find out what it was that I was doing right and repeat it, or else I will lose "it" (whatever it is that caused me to be liked).

If others treat me badly, it's because I'm wrong... either because something is wrong with me fundamentally, or because I am simply not confident enough to stop others from doing this.

If you could be blissfully happy all the time, but never right or wrong, would you?

3 hours ago, Omelette said:

This seems to be the pattern behind approval seeking

Fear of being judged

Fear of ostracization

Fear of rejection

Fear of eye contact

Wanting to be liked

Belief of not being enough, in terms of confidence, charisma

The pattern is the approval seeking. It transpires in thoughts, then the discord is felt in the body, then thoughts of a separate self are believed & identified with, and the pattern repeats. But fear, insecurity & unworthiness are emotions.

3 hours ago, Omelette said:

What can be done about these beliefs.

Daily meditation, expressing the emotions with a journal & the scale, and inspecting the beliefs.

3 hours ago, Omelette said:

How does one stop being approval seeking?

Find the one who is, the one who the thoughts are about.. and or, ‘go to’ the one feeling the thoughts, the awareness which is aware of the thoughts.

nurthur11 · October 23, 2022

7 hours ago, Omelette said:

What does it mean to be approval seeking?

I experience this when interacting with others when I care more about how they will react to me, than how I feel.

I want others to like me, if they do, that means I am doing something right. I need to find out what it was that I was doing right and repeat it, or else I will lose "it" (whatever it is that caused me to be liked).

If others treat me badly, it's because I'm wrong... either because something is wrong with me fundamentally, or because I am simply not confident enough to stop others from doing this.

This seems to be the pattern behind approval seeking

Fear of being judged

Fear of ostracization

Fear of rejection

Fear of eye contact

Wanting to be liked

Belief of not being enough, in terms of confidence, charisma

What can be done about these beliefs. How does one stop being approval seeking?

Yeah, i also believe that no one will ever fulfill the need for approval. There is a you who doesn’t want to let go a broken relationship or is trying to salvage whatever is left of that relationship while at the same time feeling anger. This you is also responsible for your style( how you speak, how you appear to others and so on), if you believe that you are paying attention you will act paying attention. This is like the acting you. For me this is me thought who is most connected to others while simultaneously not attaching. This you has to make a home. In my experience when “home” or i become focused in this you i let go of other cravings as well(from this messed up sentence you can understand that home it will get created by itself.) . In my case i do alot of negative behavior when i dont get approval, overereating, smoking etc.

I believe if you stay “home” you can manage to go long time without getting approval.

Also, i am accepting more and more everyday that one has to get used to fighting for approval. Imagine, everyone wants to be approved, liked, loved, respected. For example, if you are playing chess and your opponent smacks you don’t expect from them to share their approval or trying to trick them into giving you approval, but also don't be afraid of them.

Omelette · October 23, 2022

23 hours ago, DMT Elf said:

Nobody will ever give you approval. And nobody will ever like you. That’s the real cosmic joke. Haha 😂 So funny!

You know what I mean though; but your comment makes me think what does this look like, what does it mean to receive someones approval or be liked.

How do I demonstrate I approve of or like others?

There is not really anything tangible that makes it that, it is just a mental distinction ("This person likes me", "This person is a stranger", "This person doesn't like me"). Someone can act nicely to try to manipulate you, someone could act rude because of personal circumstances but actually want the best for you, etc.

20 hours ago, Phil said:

If you could experience amazing reactions from everyone you encounter but never feel happiness, would you?

No. If I was the most suave and confident man in the world 🤠😎 but would be unhappy, I wouldn't want it.

20 hours ago, Phil said:

If you could be blissfully happy all the time, but never right or wrong, would you?

My initial thought is no to be honest. But recalling past experiences of what I can only describe as bliss/ infinite love, literally nothing at all seemed to matter, including right or wrong. So in reality, I would choose bliss, yet thought says it is inaccessible now.

I don't know why I put conditions on this feeling though, and it seems to be done unconsciously and/or subconsciously

20 hours ago, Phil said:

The pattern is the approval seeking. It transpires in thoughts, then the discord is felt in the body, then thoughts of a separate self are believed & identified with, and the pattern repeats. But fear, insecurity & unworthiness are emotions.

So rather than target specific area (Get better eye contact, get more confident) focus more big picture you think?

I remember forcing myself to get better at these things, and I really would get better, but it still felt bad and unnatural, even if others perceive me as how I thought I would like. Sometimes I would have people describe me the complete opposite as I felt, they would use words like confident, intimidating, attractive, funny, when I felt like an insecure boy trying to put on a mask so people will like me.

So instead I think self love, putting feeling first, putting more "faith" in these practices like sticking to meditation and journal, don't worry about these 3d manifestations so much and they will come along when it's time?

16 hours ago, nurthur11 said:

Yeah, i also believe that no one will ever fulfill the need for approval. There is a you who doesn’t want to let go a broken relationship or is trying to salvage whatever is left of that relationship while at the same time feeling anger

Really? I think that it's possible through spirituality. Even without it, I think a lot of people have gone "against the grain" of society to make big changes.

One could maybe say that people make these daring choices to fight for a certain viewpoint (civil right, lgbtq, women right, secularism) out of hopes to be accepted by majority of society, just because it is so difficult to live as an outcast.

16 hours ago, nurthur11 said:

This you is also responsible for your style( how you speak, how you appear to others and so on), if you believe that you are paying attention you will act paying attention. This is like the acting you.

Yes, sometimes you can even tell when someone is desperate for approval, and usually it makes a feeling of repulsion for some reason. Or just, you already liked them, so them being approval seeking doesn't change anything.

16 hours ago, nurthur11 said:

I believe if you stay “home” you can manage to go long time without getting approval.

What are your methods you've found to get to this state? Do you find there is anything apart from "normal" spirituality like meditation that makes you feel more socially calibrated?

Phil · October 23, 2022

2 hours ago, Omelette said:

So rather than target specific area (Get better eye contact, get more confident) focus more big picture you think?

To get approval?

2 hours ago, Omelette said:

I remember forcing myself to get better at these things, and I really would get better, but it still felt bad and unnatural, even if others perceive me as how I thought I would like.

How does the belief others perceive you feel? Great, or not great?

Why?

How does the belief that you know right & wrong, better & worse, good & bad and natural & unatural feel? Great, or not great?

Why?

2 hours ago, Omelette said:

Sometimes I would have people describe me the complete opposite as I felt, they would use words like confident, intimidating, attractive, funny, when I felt like an insecure boy trying to put on a mask so people will like me.

Is insecurity an emotion which is felt?

Why?

2 hours ago, Omelette said:

So instead I think self love, putting feeling first, putting more "faith" in these practices like sticking to meditation and journal, don't worry about these 3d manifestations so much and they will come along when it's time?

Is worry an emotion which is felt?

Why?

nurthur11 · October 23, 2022

@Omelette

I definitely need the approval of the people around me. But i could and have in the past spend my life alone and felt happy and good - mby had only my family who was there always but didnt over care nor did i need care. I feel today s people need also the care. A conscious “you need to taking care of me”.

I was the type of person look you are my people hi, bye and now i want to talk who ever wants to listen can listen. I rarely would get angry - even in the cases i was angry i would resolve and make the relationship better if i didnt resolve i would stick to my guns and thats that. Nowadays is so complicated “ here i said smth that made the other person feel bad now they will hate me” and “omg why does he speak to me like this” (never stand up just think about it), “ i have to respect the hierarchy, show dominance and be smart about relationship” . Sometimes things like this contribute to losing social calibration.

I never get back home and am very bad at this type of thing - my focus don’t really hold for a long time and i am very excited about social interaction that i lose the sense of controlling myself. To put it simply: I would say that to make a home for yourself and the other person you like to be in your home is necessary to feel safe and have good feelings (enjoy the interaction).

Mandy · October 23, 2022

Write out a conversation with your super ego. Appreciate that son of a bitch for all the times he jumped in the way to keep you from being reprimanded by some other person. He's taken a lot of hits for you, or did he throw them? Not good enough. Worth less. Cringe. Fat. Lazy. Creep. Bad.

Then realize there aren't two of you, you're the author of both.

"I approve of myself." -Louise Hay affirmation.

Omelette · October 24, 2022

On 10/23/2022 at 4:38 PM, Phil said:

To get approval?

I'm only wanting these things because I think it will feel good, instead maybe I can go directly to the feel good and everything resolves its self ( or maybe I will find there is no need to resolve anything?)

It is very hard for me to disassociate object/concept/state with good feelings, right now I think I wouldn't care if I felt good 24/7 if I had no chance of getting what I want

On 10/23/2022 at 4:38 PM, Phil said:

How does the belief others perceive you feel? Great, or not great?

Why?

Not great

because it makes me wonder what their perception of me is, and makes me want to be perceived in a certain way by them.

On 10/23/2022 at 4:38 PM, Phil said:

How does the belief that you know right & wrong, better & worse, good & bad and natural & unatural feel? Great, or not great?

Why?

Not great

because I then want to change reality to get this way, in hopes of being able to reach the good feelings.

On 10/23/2022 at 4:38 PM, Phil said:

Is insecurity an emotion which is felt?

Why?

I don't know, I think so. I guess based on what I've read here I could say that there is a pattern of "insecure" thinking, and there are feelings associated like worry and doubt.

Yet also, I see insecurity on the emotional scale, so I guess it is an emotion?

Why, it's because I think life is not going my way and I'm not getting what I want. So thoughts about how I must not be good enough in some way arise with the feeling. I don't know if feeling causes thought, thought causes feeling, or they both come up at the same time.

On 10/23/2022 at 4:38 PM, Phil said:

Is worry an emotion which is felt?

Why?

Yes, I don't know why or what purpose it serves, same for insecurity. Worry comes up when I think "I messed up last time, so I'm gonna mess up again", "I can't do this", "People will laugh at me because of ___"

On 10/23/2022 at 6:27 PM, nurthur11 said:

Nowadays is so complicated “ here i said smth that made the other person feel bad now they will hate me” and “omg why does he speak to me like this” (never stand up just think about it), “ i have to respect the hierarchy, show dominance and be smart about relationship” . Sometimes things like this contribute to losing social calibration.

I can relate to this too. I also can relate to the opposite, where after not doing stuff like standing up then I act so defensive and will over react to minor things because I bottled up emotions.

On 10/23/2022 at 6:27 PM, nurthur11 said:

my focus don’t really hold for a long time and i am very excited about social interaction that i lose the sense of controlling myself.

What happens if you stop controlling myself? I think when I control myself too much is when I have problems, I get awkward and analyze everything. But if I stop trying to control and just "go with the flow" and say whatever it usually works better and is less stressful for me.

On 10/23/2022 at 6:48 PM, Mandy said:

Write out a conversation with your super ego.

What is superego, like the part of me that says right/wrong morally? Or in general maybe (like I say the food I like is right, the food I dislike is wrong, just what controls preference?)

On 10/23/2022 at 6:48 PM, Mandy said:

"I approve of myself." -Louise Hay affirmation.

I tried some of the loving kindness meditation which was kind of like this, and it felt good 😁

Phil · October 25, 2022

1 hour ago, Omelette said:

I'm only wanting these things because I think it will feel good, instead maybe I can go directly to the feel good and everything resolves its self ( or maybe I will find there is no need to resolve anything?)

Exactly. Go inward. Thoughts settle.

Solutions, ideas, insights… alignment happens.

1 hour ago, Omelette said:

It is very hard for me to disassociate object/concept/state with good feelings, right now I think I wouldn't care if I felt good 24/7 if I had no chance of getting what I want

Do you mean differentiate… as in distinguish experience (objects/concepts/states/feelings)… from feeling?

1 hour ago, Omelette said:

Not great

because it makes me wonder what their perception of me is, and makes me want to be perceived in a certain way by them.

Perception being seeing & hearing, that one’s pretty easy to clarify. Just talk while looking into a mirror. Their perception’s the exactly same. Maybe you mean you want to be thought a certain way…? I wonder if that way is similar to the way you want to think of yourself?

1 hour ago, Omelette said:

Not great

because I then want to change reality to get this way, in hopes of being able to reach the good feelings.

What about wanting to create reality? Creating the change?

1 hour ago, Omelette said:

I don't know, I think so. I guess based on what I've read here I could say that there is a pattern of "insecure" thinking, and there are feelings associated like worry and doubt.

Yet also, I see insecurity on the emotional scale, so I guess it is an emotion?

Yes. It’s how thoughts feel. Being nuanced, ‘insecure thinking’ is a bit judgmental of thoughts compared with insecurity is how the thoughts feel.

1 hour ago, Omelette said:

Why, it's because I think life is not going my way and I'm not getting what I want. So thoughts about how I must not be good enough in some way arise with the feeling. I don't know if feeling causes thought, thought causes feeling, or they both come up at the same time.

If focus were on good feeling thoughts of what’s wanted… would thoughts about you or not being good enough even arise?

How does it feel to bring to mind getting what you want vs creating what you want?

Do thoughts about not being good enough really arise with feeling… or is that thought contrasting with feeling?

Do thought come & go, does feeling come and go?

Mandy · October 25, 2022

7 hours ago, Omelette said:

What is superego, like the part of me that says right/wrong morally? Or in general maybe (like I say the food I like is right, the food I dislike is wrong, just what controls preference?)

Mostly, yes it's the voice of self criticism, "the part of a person's mind that acts as a self-critical conscience, reflecting social standards learned from parents and teachers."

"The conscious mind is like a violent general of a strong fiefdom controlling things from a distance until the sword is turned around." -The Secret of The Golden Flower

nurthur11 · October 26, 2022

On 10/25/2022 at 1:15 AM, Omelette said:

What happens if you stop controlling myself? I think when I control myself too much is when I have problems, I get awkward and analyze everything. But if I stop trying to control and just "go with the flow" and say whatever it usually works better and is less stressful for me.

Nice input - i agree with this!

Myself appears in interaction with others, automatically. It feels much better not controlling it.

Edited October 26, 2022 by nurthur11

Omelette · October 29, 2022

On 10/24/2022 at 8:58 PM, Phil said:

Do you mean differentiate… as in distinguish experience (objects/concepts/states/feelings)… from feeling?

I believe getting or doing something is the source of the good feeling.

i.e.

I can feel content, but still want to improve my physical fitness. This must be because I think it will feel good when I do

I meditate and feel good and the day goes better. This means the act of meditation is a source of good feeling

I quit an addiction, but still have bad days. Do I need to quit my other addictions to finally feel good, or should I just go back to the addiction since I feel bad anyways?

This is the sort of line of thinking I mean, as though these events cause the good feeling

It is all done in pursuit of the good feeling, I think of everything I want, and if it felt awful how I wouldn't want it. Even the most selfless things, imagine my dream was to open an orphanage and save kids. I only want that for the good feeling, it would feel good if they were helped. If something like abuse happened by an employee in it, I would feel responsible for it and feel bad.

On 10/24/2022 at 8:58 PM, Phil said:

Maybe you mean you want to be thought a certain way…? I wonder if that way is similar to the way you want to think of yourself?

Yes, that's what I mean. I guess it is, in a way. I also want people to like me because I think that will lead to future benefits whether it be emotionally, socially, financially, etc.

On 10/24/2022 at 8:58 PM, Phil said:

What about wanting to create reality? Creating the change?

I only want to create if it feels good while creating

Sometimes I get so discouraged, like how long will this take, how can I expect to create this when I failed my whole life, it's not gonna work to manifest this for me, etc. it feels bad to think this and makes me lose hope

I also don't know if I still would want to create or change anything if I was truly happy and feeling good. What would be the purpose?

On 10/24/2022 at 8:58 PM, Phil said:

If focus were on good feeling thoughts of what’s wanted… would thoughts about you or not being good enough even arise?

But then thoughts come up about whether or not it's really possible if I can get it

I'm interpreting this like you're telling a homeless guy to think about good feeling thoughts of his house and he will get one

Really I don't think this would be the craziest thing, but I imagine a chain of action taken, he has to clean himself up, get a job, etc. and his positive thinking inspired that.

Do I need to take action too or can I just sort of continue life as normally with the addition of thinking what I want.

If I want a large pizza can I just think about it today and not order it, and maybe a friend invites me over and gets pizza, or a delivery goes to wrong house and gives me a pizza by accident..

If so, what happens when I wanted pizza tonight so deeply and it never came? I never truly wanted it? I was doing something wrong?

Or I still have to get up and drive to the pizza place?

I don't want good feeling thoughts if I never get what I want, I feel like I'm being taunted or teased by stuff I will never get, like a carrot on a stick, if I do this too long

On 10/24/2022 at 8:58 PM, Phil said:

How does it feel to bring to mind getting what you want vs creating what you want?

To be honest it feels better thinking about getting what I want. Especially for things like social skills, I don't want to put in effort for stuff that should just be natural. I don't want to wait for so long, I just want to feel good now.

On 10/24/2022 at 8:58 PM, Phil said:

Do thoughts about not being good enough really arise with feeling… or is that thought contrasting with feeling?

I don't know. Which one comes first? I think the thought is first, and the feeling is indicating the thought is not aligned? Why is there sometimes a buffer between this? Like a depressed person think "I love myself" won't instantaneously make them feel good

On 10/24/2022 at 8:58 PM, Phil said:

Do thought come & go, does feeling come and go?

Yes, they both do

Phil · October 29, 2022

12 minutes ago, Omelette said:

I believe getting or doing something is the source of the good feeling.

i.e.

I can feel content, but still want to improve my physical fitness. This must be because I think it will feel good when I do

I meditate and feel good and the day goes better. This means the act of meditation is a source of good feeling

I quit an addiction, but still have bad days. Do I need to quit my other addictions to finally feel good, or should I just go back to the addiction since I feel bad anyways?

This is the sort of line of thinking I mean, as though these events cause the good feeling

It is all done in pursuit of the good feeling, I think of everything I want, and if it felt awful how I wouldn't want it. Even the most selfless things, imagine my dream was to open an orphanage and save kids. I only want that for the good feeling, it would feel good if they were helped. If something like abuse happened by an employee in it, I would feel responsible for it and feel bad.

Don’t settle for assumption, keep inspecting. Be literal and scientific about it, as if you had to prove absolutely where good feeling is coming from.

12 minutes ago, Omelette said:

Yes, that's what I mean. I guess it is, in a way. I also want people to like me because I think that will lead to future benefits whether it be emotionally, socially, financially, etc.

Really question if you ever actually experience what anyone else is thinking, or if you only experience thought directly, as in ‘your’ thoughts.

12 minutes ago, Omelette said:

I only want to create if it feels good while creating

Sometimes I get so discouraged, like how long will this take, how can I expect to create this when I failed my whole life, it's not gonna work to manifest this for me, etc. it feels bad to think this and makes me lose hope

Use the emotional scale. Experience the difference between self referential thoughts like ‘I get discouraged’, vs ‘I’m experiencing the emotion, discouragement’. ‘It makes me feel bad’ vs ‘the emotion I am experiencing is __________.’ ‘Makes me lose hope’ vs ‘experiencing the emotion __________’.

12 minutes ago, Omelette said:

I also don't know if I still would want to create or change anything if I was truly happy and feeling good. What would be the purpose?

The experience.

12 minutes ago, Omelette said:

If focus were on good feeling thoughts of what’s wanted… would thoughts about you or not being good enough even arise?

But then thoughts come up about whether or not it's really possible if I can get it