Emptying....

[Eternal]

I have been feeling extremely tired the last couple of hours and just wondering where this super lethargic feeling comes from. One of the only things that I was thinking was just going to sleep in bed and relaxing. I had a lot of sleep, went out for breakfast with my family and all of a sudden at the gym.. I just started to feel incredibly tired. Kind of feel like that right now. It seems to happen rather frequently. 

 

I was hoping to get quite a bit done today but this tiredness seems to be holding me back. I just don't know why I feel like this. I seem to feel tired a lot and it is no fun, especially when I get a lot of sleep. Also I get this extremely spaced out feeling, like not belonging. Feeling like a complete outsider to everyone. Possibly depersonalisation. I will look at myself in the mirror a lot and get a sense of being extremely disidentified with my body. Sometimes I want to just get away from my family, I feel labelled and judged by them which probably explains why I have discordant thoughts about true expression of who I am. Unfortunately my parents unofficialy diagnosed me with autism when I was around 12 at school and so now a have huge limiting beliefs of saying that right or wrong thing. I think my subconscious adopted this and does not want to be weird around anyone. Hence why when I am around people, I don't enjoy myself. It is almost like I try so hard to not be myself because I don't want to be weird. I can't ever express myself without my thinking mind taking control first. It is always like "what do I say" which is so incredibly discordant because it does not come from within. It comes from the wanting to appear perfect to others. My aunt said I shouldn't do drugs because I have a mental illness and called me autistic when I was having breakfast with my family. That did not feel good because I don't feel like I have any problems with me. I just feel judged and labelled a lot around my family :(. 

 

I just feel like being by myself today and not really socializing with anyone. Maybe I will do that. A lot of the time I socialise with others because I crave sex thinking it is going to fill the emptiness. I often say yes to others to make them happy at my own dispense and happiness. It is like doing something that I don't want on my dreamboard just to make the other person happy. 

 

I can't think of anything better right now than just being by myself in my own little bubble of relaxation. I had an amazing time with this girl I met last night for the 3rd time. I was actually being myself and I could sense her attraction towards me. Because I was just there being happy and talking about what I am interested in. The conversation was natural. We had sex, I enjoyed myself but now I do get thoughts about her. Like if I should of texted her when I got back home but I decided to text her earlier today which was a day later. I am afraid of liking her or her rejecting me. What if I cause her to suffer. She seems to be such a nice person and we smoked weed together which was very fun. Weed gave me a lot of insights, I entered into the true nature behind form. I realized when I stop chasing for what I want, insight just came to me, I was journaling for hours on onenote on my phone. I felt something beyond me was talking to me. It was incredibly freeing, recognizing the formless dimension beyond birth and death. I was even explaining to her how I felt in a super charasmatic way, she soon fell asleep though but nevertheless I was having a good time. Maybe thoughts are getting less of a grip on me. I am trying not to judge myself on a thought I get. A lot of the times, I am incredibly self critial wheneverI get thought. Whenever I journal on here, I always get a thought of not being able to express myself. I am bad at communicating. My sentances don't make sense. Do I just say the first thing that comes to mind. It feels bad having to create bad sentences. I want them to make sense. I want to get amazing insights that are well thought out. Sometimes I find that I don't think enough before I type or maybe I think to much. I wish I had a better vocabularly and spoke better, especially when I journal and write. I want to be a good leader for others to look up for but sometimes I feel weak as I am bad at explaining concepts. 

 

I always have the need to be improving myself everyday.. I want to be charasmatic... a good leader, living a life on purpose, financial freedom, into spirituality but I have fears. Fears of what if I cannot make it. What if my brain is damaged and I am actually autistic. I find myself to be quite stupid sometimes as I never took my GCSES and was very addicted to computer games growing up so did not take my education seriously. I was bullied all my schools, I probably went to like 15 different ones. I used to get very bad panic attacks and anxiety around others so eventually I dropped out when I was like 16, I am currently 26. Right now I am just talking without thinking. I need to try to follow feeling more. I have a lot of bad beliefs probably. I am trying to make more of an effort to see through the nature of thought and to what I really am. Sometimes I get glimpses and sometimes not but I find journaling to be helpful.

 

 

 

 

[Phil]

 

‘Complete outsider to everyone’ isn’t a feeling, it’s a thought. The thought doesn’t feel good because it isn’t true. There is no such thing as ‘an outsider’, there is the experience of the discord of believing the ‘self’ referential thought. Continuing to believe the thought is true is continuing to experience the discord, and is exhausting. Sufficiently inspecting if the thought is true is the end of the discord & exhaustion. 

 

Try this instead of whatever you ate / eat for breakfast. 

 

Instead of ‘I seem to feel tired a lot’, entertain ‘I seem to believe discordant self referential thoughts a lot’. This helps bring about recognition that the discord isn’t true of you, isn’t true of the feeling of you, but is how the thoughts about you feel. The aversion from inspecting the thoughts is what suffering is. 

 

‘Spaced out’ isn’t a feeling, or an emotion, but is the experience of apathy, or, not inspecting & deciphering and expressing the emotion that you are feeling. The thought ‘complete outsider to everyone’ is met with the emotional guidance of powerlessness, letting you know why the thought is discordant. Because you can participate as desired. No one is stopping you. You are as empowered as anyone else. In inspecting & dispelling the believing of the discordant thoughts, inclusion & participation happens naturally, effortlessly.  In this case ‘depersonalization’ is actually the isolating nature of the thoughts. Willingly, effortlessly, be more personal be choosing to engage more with people and the activities therein. Notice any receding into discordant thoughts, and return attention to perception & sensation. 

 

Notice you don’t (more earnestly speaking) want to get away from your family which you are labelled & judged by… you want to let go of labelling and judging. Bring clarity to this by noticing the untruth of ‘I feel labelled and judged by them’. Actually, what’s felt is not their thoughts, but so to speak, your own. With respect to apathy and recognizing the emotional guidance, this is the emotion of blame. Blaming others in this way for how you feel then brings about the emotional guidance of powerlessness… letting you know you are empowered, and shedding light & clarity on that you are feeling your thoughts. Even if they verbally express judgement, simply allow them to in the recognition of their ignorance. In recognizing and admitting that you are feeling the thoughts, beliefs & perspectives you are focusing on, it is clearly seen… so are they. What you want is to feel better, to feel great. That is what they want too. Blame, as in blaming each other for each of you feel, doesn’t feel great. 

 

There is no such thing as an ‘unofficial diagnosis’. A certified doctor either does, or does not, give a diagnosis. 

 

‘To fill the emptiness’. What is this emptiness? Have this ever actually been experienced? What is this is a belief, an assumption? What if you’ve been assuming there is this emptiness, this void… and in truth, it is fullness?

 

You’re doing does not make others happy. This is a belief, an assumption. A justifying (and therein perpetuating of) suffering. Inspect direct experience to find you don’t know how anyone else actually feels. There is only the observation and assumption (or not). 

 

In ‘being afraid of liking her or being rejected’… ‘what if I cause her suffering’ arises because it is missed what the suffering of your direct experience is. It is missing that there is no one there which is afraid. There is the emotional guidance of the emotion felt - fear. In recognizing the emotion as guidance, one turns to inspect the discord of the thought. The discord is that the thought is about a separate self which doesn’t exist. Awareness, consciousness, or the ‘true’ self, does not know or experience fear. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Eternal]

On 8/5/2022 at 2:34 PM, Phil said:

 

‘Complete outsider to everyone’ isn’t a feeling, it’s a thought. The thought doesn’t feel good because it isn’t true. There is no such thing as ‘an outsider’, there is the experience of the discord of believing the ‘self’ referential thought. Continuing to believe the thought is true is continuing to experience the discord, and is exhausting. Sufficiently inspecting if the thought is true is the end of the discord & exhaustion. 

 

Try this instead of whatever you ate / eat for breakfast. 

 

Instead of ‘I seem to feel tired a lot’, entertain ‘I seem to believe discordant self referential thoughts a lot’. This helps bring about recognition that the discord isn’t true of you, isn’t true of the feeling of you, but is how the thoughts about you feel. The aversion from inspecting the thoughts is what suffering is. 

 

‘Spaced out’ isn’t a feeling, or an emotion, but is the experience of apathy, or, not inspecting & deciphering and expressing the emotion that you are feeling. The thought ‘complete outsider to everyone’ is met with the emotional guidance of powerlessness, letting you know why the thought is discordant. Because you can participate as desired. No one is stopping you. You are as empowered as anyone else. In inspecting & dispelling the believing of the discordant thoughts, inclusion & participation happens naturally, effortlessly.  In this case ‘depersonalization’ is actually the isolating nature of the thoughts. Willingly, effortlessly, be more personal be choosing to engage more with people and the activities therein. Notice any receding into discordant thoughts, and return attention to perception & sensation. 

 

Notice you don’t (more earnestly speaking) want to get away from your family which you are labelled & judged by… you want to let go of labelling and judging. Bring clarity to this by noticing the untruth of ‘I feel labelled and judged by them’. Actually, what’s felt is not their thoughts, but so to speak, your own. With respect to apathy and recognizing the emotional guidance, this is the emotion of blame. Blaming others in this way for how you feel then brings about the emotional guidance of powerlessness… letting you know you are empowered, and shedding light & clarity on that you are feeling your thoughts. Even if they verbally express judgement, simply allow them to in the recognition of their ignorance. In recognizing and admitting that you are feeling the thoughts, beliefs & perspectives you are focusing on, it is clearly seen… so are they. What you want is to feel better, to feel great. That is what they want too. Blame, as in blaming each other for each of you feel, doesn’t feel great. 

 

There is no such thing as an ‘unofficial diagnosis’. A certified doctor either does, or does not, give a diagnosis. 

 

‘To fill the emptiness’. What is this emptiness? Have this ever actually been experienced? What is this is a belief, an assumption? What if you’ve been assuming there is this emptiness, this void… and in truth, it is fullness?

 

You’re doing does not make others happy. This is a belief, an assumption. A justifying (and therein perpetuating of) suffering. Inspect direct experience to find you don’t know how anyone else actually feels. There is only the observation and assumption (or not). 

 

In ‘being afraid of liking her or being rejected’… ‘what if I cause her suffering’ arises because it is missed what the suffering of your direct experience is. It is missing that there is no one there which is afraid. There is the emotional guidance of the emotion felt - fear. In recognizing the emotion as guidance, one turns to inspect the discord of the thought. The discord is that the thought is about a separate self which doesn’t exist. Awareness, consciousness, or the ‘true’ self, does not know or experience fear. 

 

 

 

 @Phil

 

I am trying to notice the discord of thoughts more but recently with this girl who I have seen 3 times has not messaged me back since Saturday. Do I just observe thoughts with getting fixated or attached to them? 

 

I do find it to make me feel rejected or abandoned, I thought we had a grea time when we were together but not hearing from her for such a long time makes me feel unworthy. A deep sense of tension within me. I thought we had great chemistry and it brings up loads of times where I have been rejected by girls in the past, especially after sex (that feels the worst). I was being me when I was around her but I cannot stop thinking that I could of played my cards differently. What if I really was not me and not truely expressing myself which lead to her not messaging me. 

 

I feel a sense of shame around messing up a great situation, and very rejected. Sometimes I wish I could just go back in time and be a different person around her. There must be a reason why most girls basically reject me most of the time, even after sex. I don't understand what the universe is trying to show me. The amount of rejection that I have faced has been very emotionally challenging. Sometimes causing me to be in complete grief and despair for months just laying in my bed, crying even. 

 

I just don't understand what I did wrong for her not to message me back. Almost like I am judging myself for misbehaving, wanting to correct my actions. 

 

Of course there are a lot of girls out there that I can talk and speak to, but this was the only girl I have been talking to right now. Putting all my eggs into one basket, I had a great time with her while we were together and it does feel upsetting that I am most likely going to get text from her sooner or later, giving me yet another "I don't think this is going to work out between us", like I am almost anticipating it in my mind. I did message her last night after Saturday, just asking how her weekend was but she did not reply. I do not particularly like being the one to constantly chase. A part of me feels like she is going against one of my values which is 'honesty', I would much rather her tell me how she felt instead of straight up ignoring me. Not knowing is the worst. 

 

Perhaps, I am assuming the worst case scenario here but it makes me feel unloved. Or that I should of done better. I may be putting barriers around truely expressing myself which actually causes rejection because I am so afraid of rejection. This all seems so paradoxical. 

 

I am not enough and only am I enough when I am in the company of a woman or when I am getting regular sex. Constantly checking my phone to see when she is going to reply so I can receive yet another 'rejection'. Sometimes I wish I wouldn't pursue the opposite sex as it just causes suffering because everything is impermenant and won't last. I felt good when I was with her and now I feel bad because I am anticipating something not going my way. 

 

We smoked weed together and that was fun also, perhaps a nice distraction but provided valuable insight. 

 

I just can't take feeling like this, I want to be enough without any woman in my life. 

 

I am always chasing, chasing, chasing like I am on a never ending treadmill which is happiness, suffering, happiness, suffering.... It takes so much time but I really do not know how to present myself, surely I should of done something different to not get rejected, right? I was being myself in the best possible way I know how. 

 

I figured I would much rather get rejected for being 'me' instead of a complete fake persona that is portrayed so I get rejected for who I truly am but at the same time don't know who I am. 

[Phil]

 

30 minutes ago, Eternal said:

 

I just can't take feeling like this, I want to be enough without any woman in my life

That’s a great insight.  But much more so, you  already are enough. Then there are thoughts about how you’re not, about a you which is rejected, etc. It is precisely because you are already enough that those beliefs are discordant. 

30 minutes ago, Eternal said:

I am always chasing, chasing, chasing like I am on a never ending treadmill which is happiness, suffering, happiness, suffering

There’s nothing inherently discordant about chasing females. Lots of guys do and love it. The treadmill is believing discordant thoughts about yourself, instead of putting how you feel first. Begin to consider that beliefs about yourself aren’t true. Recognize the truth in feeling, and the untruth of how some beliefs feel, to feeling. 

[Mandy]

You don't need to "know" who you are, when you are feeling good you are being who you really are. We try to prevent discordant thoughts by manipulating our behavior so that others will like us, but we can't manipulate someone's affections. We don't even know what that behavior is. We don't even know if we want that particular person to like us. We haven't even bothered to ask ourselves if we like them, we've been so fixated on worrying about them liking us. We only want to avoid feeling discord. We want to avoid feeling horrible the night after a date replaying stuff in our mind. We're like a dog caught in a trap, all it wants is freedom, so badly it will chew it's own leg off. But the trap is of our own making. So we bring our fear of our own future judgement when we're home in the quiet of our room into the socialization as it is happening. We feel discordant now, in the moment around the person we think we need to like us and that blocks the connection we want to have with that person. They don't feel seen or put at ease, because we are inwardly acting like a child expecting a shot at the doctor and we are looking at them like they are holding a syringe.

 

Why, do we feel we need to prevent discordant thoughts in the future with discordant thought now? 

 

43 minutes ago, Eternal said:

Sometimes I wish I could just go back in time and be a different person around her. There must be a reason why most girls basically reject me most of the time, even after sex.

What you want is to be free of the discord now.

43 minutes ago, Eternal said:

I may be putting barriers around truely expressing myself which actually causes rejection because I am so afraid of rejection. This all seems so paradoxical. 

👏👍

Grant yourself the freedom of not caring what people think now. The instant the discord arises. 

43 minutes ago, Eternal said:

I just can't take feeling like this, I want to be enough without any woman in my life. 

You already are.

43 minutes ago, Eternal said:

I thought we had great chemistry and it brings up loads of times where I have been rejected by girls in the past, especially after sex (that feels the worst).

Not to judge people hooking up, or living in the moment, but there's something to be said about really building a relationship before you have sex. The most important point is to look at the discord directly when it comes up and drop thoughts. However, if you are having a hard time opening up or "being yourself" taking in slow might be what you are wanting. You might have generational or societal expectations about sex and needing it to happen right off the bat after showing interest in someone that you aren't actually aligned with or preferring. Just something to consider. 

[Eternal]

5 hours ago, Mandy said:

You don't need to "know" who you are, when you are feeling good you are being who you really are. We try to prevent discordant thoughts by manipulating our behavior so that others will like us, but we can't manipulate someone's affections. We don't even know what that behavior is. We don't even know if we want that particular person to like us. We haven't even bothered to ask ourselves if we like them, we've been so fixated on worrying about them liking us. We only want to avoid feeling discord. We want to avoid feeling horrible the night after a date replaying stuff in our mind. We're like a dog caught in a trap, all it wants is freedom, so badly it will chew it's own leg off. But the trap is of our own making. So we bring our fear of our own future judgement when we're home in the quiet of our room into the socialization as it is happening. We feel discordant now, in the moment around the person we think we need to like us and that blocks the connection we want to have with that person. They don't feel seen or put at ease, because we are inwardly acting like a child expecting a shot at the doctor and we are looking at them like they are holding a syringe.

 

Why, do we feel we need to prevent discordant thoughts in the future with discordant thought now? 

 

What you want is to be free of the discord now.

👏👍

Grant yourself the freedom of not caring what people think now. The instant the discord arises. 

You already are.

Not to judge people hooking up, or living in the moment, but there's something to be said about really building a relationship before you have sex. The most important point is to look at the discord directly when it comes up and drop thoughts. However, if you are having a hard time opening up or "being yourself" taking in slow might be what you are wanting. You might have generational or societal expectations about sex and needing it to happen right off the bat after showing interest in someone that you aren't actually aligned with or preferring. Just something to consider. 

@Phil @Mandy

 

What you say makes sense but I do have an objection about the teachings being more focused in the absolute domain vs relative. I know I already am but at the same time 'relatively' speaking there are things you should do & shouldn't do. Like for example if you are a rapist and decided to rape a woman on date, that would not be acceptable. It goes from being an attractive man vs an unattractive man also. 

 

There are things that women do find attractive vs unattractive, like being well groomed and hygeinic for example. Having a good sense of humour, non neediness etc. 

 

Yes, thoughts do tend to cause suffering is everything is happening in the now, but socialisation and being more attractive is possible, like having a more attractive version of 'you'. 

 

I find it really hard to resonate with just being 'me' because I act differently depending on my mood and also the people I am around. Is just being 'me' saying the first thing that comes to mind or what? I genuinely don't know who I am. Is it expressing myself without any limitation? 

 

Leo said to try to have sex quickly as that is a womans ultimate form of investment and she will be more likely to stick around after which I was I try to have sex on the first date but when I am on the date, I get stifled, not sure how to express myself, bad emotions, don't know what to say. Basically not wanting to be there. 

 

Do you see where I am coming from though, I find these teachings to be more absolute focused instead of trying to improve myself in the relative domain? 

[Mandy]

2 hours ago, Eternal said:

Like for example if you are a rapist and decided to rape a woman on date, that would not be acceptable.

Offering $5 for a diamond ring is unacceptable. Stealing it is a crime, it's not even in the realm of acceptability anymore. You can offer $5 for diamond rings all day and it's unlikely anyone will accept, but you can. 

2 hours ago, Eternal said:

There are things that women do find attractive vs unattractive, like being well groomed and hygeinic for example. Having a good sense of humour, non neediness etc. 

People like good looks and absence of bad odors because there aren't any thoughts arising saying "that isn't right" or "if only that were different" or "something is wrong with them" coming up. I talked with a guy yesterday who smelled bad but was intelligent, kind and attractive and I also know the context of the situation, that he is working on a farm and staying where there isn't a shower. Americans don't like body odor so if you go out to where people are gathered it's polite to shower often. If you want to "fit in" or avoid people having stupid judgmental thoughts about you, you can act the part. Or if conserving water, or something else means more to you you can do that too. You're free. 

 

Humor is something that pretty much everyone enjoys. Women don't like men with a good sense of humor per se, in general they like to laugh. We all do. We also don't want friends or coworkers or partners with neediness because we like to feel good, focus on what we want to focus on, and be around people who feel good. There aren't a bunch of qualities that one must have to check the boxes in order to be deemed fit. They are just things we like the direct feeling of. Funny people let things go easy, judge less, and we feel more like we can do that too when we are around them. 

2 hours ago, Eternal said:

Yes, thoughts do tend to cause suffering is everything is happening in the now, but socialisation and being more attractive is possible, like having a more attractive version of 'you'.

Sure, just spend more of the time in the now. (That's a funny statement.) All of your time is in the now. 

2 hours ago, Eternal said:

I find it really hard to resonate with just being 'me' because I act differently depending on my mood and also the people I am around. Is just being 'me' saying the first thing that comes to mind or what? I genuinely don't know who I am. Is it expressing myself without any limitation?  

When we are most who we are, we are not thinking about who we are as if there were two of us, one that could judge the other. We collapse into that flow state, that rolling on the ground laughing, the passionate sex, the awe of a sunset, the flow state of a long run, the buzz of meditation. 

2 hours ago, Eternal said:

Leo said to try to have sex quickly as that is a womans ultimate form of investment and she will be more likely to stick around after which I was I try to have sex on the first date but when I am on the date, I get stifled, not sure how to express myself, bad emotions, don't know what to say. Basically not wanting to be there. 

"Leo said" but it's your belief, it's your thinking and does it resonate with you? Is it really what you want? Trying to feel relaxed and enjoy yourself on a first date and also trying to have sex to seal the deal seems like a setup for a lot of discord to me personally. If it feels great to you then awesome. I'm just thinking, maybe you want something different. I'm thinking that the reason this all feels very wrong for you is because... it is. 

 

2 hours ago, Eternal said:

Do you see where I am coming from though, I find these teachings to be more absolute focused instead of trying to improve myself in the relative domain? 

There really aren't two domains. If you want to shower, dress nice and have a cool haircut, you go do those things. If you want to watch youtube videos on having better conversations, do that. No one is saying not to do those things. Focus on doing the things you want to do. When you are feeling discord, you are not focused, not moving towards what you want. When you are doing the things you don't want to be doing because someone said that's how you must do it, you're feeling discord. You want to improve yourself because of the way you think you'll feel (great) due to the absence of self critical thoughts. But by putting feeling first, and not believing the critical thought now, you drop all resistance holding you back from doing what you want. 

[Phil]

4 hours ago, Eternal said:

@Phil @Mandy

 

What you say makes sense but I do have an objection about the teachings being more focused in the absolute domain vs relative. I know I already am but at the same time 'relatively' speaking there are things you should do & shouldn't do. Like for example if you are a rapist and decided to rape a woman on date, that would not be acceptable. It goes from being an attractive man vs an unattractive man also. 

 

There are things that women do find attractive vs unattractive, like being well groomed and hygeinic for example. Having a good sense of humour, non neediness etc. 

 

Yes, thoughts do tend to cause suffering is everything is happening in the now, but socialisation and being more attractive is possible, like having a more attractive version of 'you'. 

I agree with grooming, hygiene, having a good sense of humor, not be needy, and not raping anyone - but I think more so that you ‘should’ say, think & do what you want to, what resonates with you. In that sense, what you think you should… not what I or anyone else thinks you should. 

 

Thoughts don’t cause suffering, some beliefs are felt as suffering. Namely beliefs about yourself which aren’t true. 

 

I think what you’re calling absolute teachings, I see as dispelling beliefs which are felt as suffering. Assuming you don’t favor suffering, I think you ‘should’ do that. 🙂

4 hours ago, Eternal said:

 

I find it really hard to resonate with just being 'me' because I act differently depending on my mood and also the people I am around. Is just being 'me' saying the first thing that comes to mind or what? I genuinely don't know who I am. Is it expressing myself without any limitation? 

You can’t resonate with just being you, because you are you… and it has nothing to do with what you know or don’t know.

Thoughts, interpretations, perspectives, behaviors, actions, etc feel discordant and or aligned. Being you is essentially alignment. For example, it sounds like you would agree with not harming. That can’t be, in the most literal sense, logically explained. Misc scenarios could come to mind, endless examples, scenarios & references… but ultimately it’s because of how it feels.

Trying to be as specific & non-nondual as possible here… The most specific pointing possible imo is… before you speak - in the most literal sense - before saying or typing even one single word… first… does it even feel good to you? If it’s a story about you, a past, a future, etc…  that doesn’t feel good to focus on, say or type - why do it? Why tell that story, which you don’t like, because of how it feels, to you? 

4 hours ago, Eternal said:

Leo said to try to have sex quickly as that is a womans ultimate form of investment and she will be more likely to stick around after which I was I try to have sex on the first date

How does that feel to you? 

Employing strategies involving using sex to get a woman to stick around sounds like compensation rather than inspection as to why women of past relationships didn’t stick around. It might be that kind of thinking & behavior.  I’d rather be with someone who wants to be with me, and I’d rather be with someone because I want to be with them. I wouldn’t want to be mentally / sexually manipulated with strategies. That way of thinking doesn’t resonate, and imo creates relationships from facades, which I wouldn’t expect to last. 

4 hours ago, Eternal said:

but when I am on the date, I get stifled, not sure how to express myself, bad emotions, don't know what to say. Basically not wanting to be there. 

It might be because of that kind of thinking. If I was on a date and thinking about the fastest way to have sex so that she’ll stick around, she’s not going to stick around. 

If I’m on a date and present instead, aware of & engaged in the conversation, having fun, and we click & have chemistry, we’re both going to want to stick around. If I feel that way about her, and she doesn’t feel that way about me, that’s ok too. There is no belief I was rejected. There is the recognition of preference & chemistry. Dating is fun & exciting, when (imo) not about sex, but just about the moment for what it is. That feels great, and sex might, and might not follow. To be less absolutist & as clear as possible… honestly I would think women by & large find such an intense focus on sex and not losing them, shallow & needy. 

4 hours ago, Eternal said:

 

Do you see where I am coming from though, I find these teachings to be more absolute focused instead of trying to improve myself in the relative domain? 

Yes, I think I do. It’s hard to hear that you’re perfect just as you are, and there is nothing which needs to be or could be improved about you. 

This doesn’t mean disregarding grooming, hygiene, how you dress, what you say, what you think, etc. Those are all experience(d). 

You’re what perfection is. Which is why all experience appears to be imperfection. It’s actually perfection. 

[Kevin]

4 hours ago, Phil said:

It might be because of that kind of thinking. If I was on a date and thinking about the fastest way to have sex so that she’ll stick around, she’s not going to stick around. 

If I’m on a date and present instead, aware of & engaged in the conversation, having fun, and we click & have chemistry, we’re both going to want to stick around. If I feel that way about her, and she doesn’t feel that way about me, that’s ok too. There is no belief I was rejected. There is the recognition of preference & chemistry. Dating is fun & exciting, when (imo) not about sex, but just about the moment for what it is. That feels great, and sex might, and might not follow. To be less absolutist & as clear as possible… honestly I would think women by & large find such an intense focus on sex and not losing them, shallow & needy. 

Hey just wanted to chime in and say this paragraph really struck me. Reading this I got a feel for how people could go on dates with multiple people in shorter periods of time. Because there’s no pressure and it’s just for the fun of going and having sushi or bowling or going on a hike. Or really anything like that with someone you think is attractive. Very low pressure. Not needing anything from them. But at the same time wanting them. Sounds way more fun than how I used to view it.