Ego hijacking the Dao, with a sprinkle of Truth

[Lotus]

@Phil

 

In this thread, you replied that Hedonistic Daoism sounds like "an ego hijacking the Dao, with a sprinkle of Truth".

This reminds me a lot of the same objections with the Dreamboard, LoA & manifesting desires.

Where's the difference between the two? Why is one related to the ego while the other is not?

[Phil]

What / which objections…? 

That might help clarify.

[Lotus]

54 minutes ago, Phil said:

What / which objections…? 

That might help clarify.

That manifesting and consciously attracting desires is not spirituality, but ego.

[Phil]

24 minutes ago, Lotus said:

That manifesting and consciously attracting desires is not spirituality, but ego.

(If done by ego) how would / how does one manifest & attract desire(s)?

[Orb]

17 minutes ago, Lotus said:

That manifesting and consciously attracting desires is not spirituality, but ego.

@Lotus The thing that makes it seem egoic is the belief that manifestation can be turned on or off. 

 

Attracting desires is your nature, you are Attraction, not just someone who can "do it" or not.

 

See the magic behind desire/manifestation, its not just the mundane appearance of whatever you want to manifest. 

 

We have this insatiable desire to create things and fully experience them. 

 

Can you see this same force in all of nature? The plants keep growing, animals keep eating, humans keep on wanting. You cannot stop the force that makes all of creation want to blossom/expand.

 

When we allow this force to come in and begin consciously creating, we are moved by inspiration and exciting thoughts that pop up. 

 

The thing with "Crazy Wisdom" or Hedonistic Daoism is that its rooted in suppression rather than expression, and it uses spiritual terminology to cover it up. 

 

I mean...would you ever write "Get blackout drunk and pass out" on your dreamboard? Does that sound like creating consciously or just putting yourself to sleep?

[Phil]

@Orb

Awesome. 

Wisdom as a separate self’s possession vs the ‘wind’, such a resonating example. It suddenly got crazy loud up in herr.

 

“Welcome to Nellyville, where all newborns get a half-a-mill, 
Sons, get sedan DeVilles, soon as they can reach the wheel,
And daughters get diamonds the size of their age - 
One year get one carat, two years get two carats,
Three years get three carats, and so on into marriage. 
Nobody livin average, everybody jang-a-lang,
Nobody livin savage, e'rybody got change -
Even the paperboy deliver out the back of a Range.
It's not a game! it's a beautiful thang! 
Imagine blocks and blocks of no cocaine, blocks with no gunplay! 
Ain't nobody shot, so ain't no news that day,
Ain't nobody snitchin, they refuse to say. 
Every month - we take a vote on what the weather should be! 
And if we vote it rains - know how wet we want it to be, 
And if we vote it snow - know how deep we want it to get - 
But the sun gon' shine 99 percent, in Nellyville.
There's no. Way. I. could explain, 
the way I feel right now.”

[Lotus]

3 minutes ago, Phil said:

(If done by ego) how would / how does one manifest & attract desire(s)?

I'd (idk whether that "I" is ego or source) simply focus on whatever I want to attract, line up with the desire (transmuting discordant emotions) and keep the focus on the good feeling perspectives, until the desire manifests physically. Vibrational -> psychological -> physical.

 

An ego would seek satisfaction in chasing external things. Source naturally feels good, and that's the source of satisfaction, not external things.

 

But I'm not sure whether that answers your question. The (if done by ego) part confuses me a little.

 

14 minutes ago, Orb said:

@Lotus The thing that makes it seem egoic is the belief that manifestation can be turned on or off. 

 

Attracting desires is your nature, you are Attraction, not just someone who can "do it" or not.

 

See the magic behind desire/manifestation, its not just the mundane appearance of whatever you want to manifest. 

 

We have this insatiable desire to create things and fully experience them. 

 

Can you see this same force in all of nature? The plants keep growing, animals keep eating, humans keep on wanting. You cannot stop the force that makes all of creation want to blossom/expand.

 

When we allow this force to come in and begin consciously creating, we are moved by inspiration and exciting thoughts that pop up. 

Yes, I'm totally with you there!

 

15 minutes ago, Orb said:

The thing with "Crazy Wisdom" or Hedonistic Daoism is that its rooted in suppression rather than expression, and it uses spiritual terminology to cover it up. 

That's the part where I can't really discern. Why would Hedonistic Daoism be rooted in suppresion rather than expression? For me, it basically sounded like Dreamboarding and doing whatever you want (which is fine, for me).

 

But to be fair, that's just my first impression of Hedonistic Daoism. I'm really not well versed with that branch of spirituality.

 

16 minutes ago, Orb said:

I mean...would you ever write "Get blackout drunk and pass out" on your dreamboard? Does that sound like creating consciously or just putting yourself to sleep?

I meaaann... if that's what I want, why not? 😁

I could consciously create to put myself into sleep.

[Phil]

14 minutes ago, Lotus said:

I'd (idk whether that "I" is ego or source) simply focus on whatever I want to attract, line up with the desire (transmuting discordant emotions) and keep the focus on the good feeling perspectives, until the desire manifests physically. Vibrational -> psychological -> physical.

Identity is transmuted. “Businessmen, teachers, lawyers, carpenters”. Known & knower, understood & understander, etc (ego)… levels, degrees of Self / infinite wakefulness (spiritual ego) vs… … Not Knowing / Truth / ineffable / cessation. 🤍 

14 minutes ago, Lotus said:

 

An ego would seek satisfaction in chasing external things. Source naturally feels good, and that's the source of satisfaction, not external things.

And in being a thing. Really resonates. 🙏🏻 

14 minutes ago, Lotus said:

But I'm not sure whether that answers your question. The (if done by ego) part confuses me a little.

Ego is as appears as well. 

“This and or that… for me”. 

[Lotus]

2 minutes ago, Phil said:

Identity is transmuted.

Oh, yeah. Right. 😁

 

3 minutes ago, Phil said:

“Businessmen, teachers, lawyers, carpenters”.

Hedonistic Daoists too, huh? And that's why an ego hijacks the dao? Because it creates an identity?

 

3 minutes ago, Phil said:

Known & knower, understood & understander, etc (ego)… levels, degrees of Self / infinite wakefulness (spiritual ego) vs… … Not Knowing / Truth. 🤍

😊🙏

 

7 minutes ago, Phil said:

Ego is as appears as well. 

How do you mean?

[Phil]

“The hook brings you back, I ain’t tellin you no lie. The hook brings you back, on that you can rely.”

🥹

[Lotus]

7 minutes ago, Phil said:

“The hook brings you back, I ain’t tellin you no lie. The hook brings you back, on that you can rely.”

🥹

I don‘t understand it, but I most certainly feel it. I’m receiving the same ‚message‘ since weeks now. Bout‘ to shed a tear, man.  

[Blessed2]

4 hours ago, Orb said:

Hedonistic Daoism is that its rooted in suppression rather than expression, and it uses spiritual terminology to cover it up. 

 

I mean...would you ever write "Get blackout drunk and pass out" on your dreamboard? Does that sound like creating consciously or just putting yourself to sleep?

 

The "hedonistic" and the drunk hobo - figure kind of steers off what IMO is the true meaning of "hedonistic daoism". In fact, let's throw the "hedonistic" and "-ism" out. "Dao" is enough, lol. Back to square one.

 

It's really simple. It means to flow along Dao. Dao is abundance, joy, happiness and goodness. Alignment. If the flow leads to getting drunk and partying with friends, fine. Nothing wrong with that. If it leads to not getting drunk, that's fine too.

 

Suppression, aversion, guilt, shame, unworthiness... This is paddling against Dao.

 

"Hedonistic" IMO simply points to putting how you feel first. Joy and wellbeing first.

[Phil]

@Blessed2

Might be a case of alignment with the addition of a connotation(s) slightly different than the definition(s).

Also might not be too. 🤷  

 

Hedonism (noun)

The doctrine that pleasure or happiness is the sole or chief good in life. 

 

Hedonistic (adjective)

Devoted to the pursuit of pleasure.

 

Pleasure (noun)

1: Desire, inclination. 

2: A state of gratification.

3a: Sensual gratification

   b: Frivolous amusement

4: A source of delight or joy. 

[Lotus]

1 hour ago, Phil said:

Might be a case of alignment with the addition of a connotation(s) slightly different than the definition(s).

Language can be really confusing in communication sometimes. The definitions given don‘t resonate as much as what I thought hedonistic daoism points to. I thought hedonistic daoism is basically about the same message as alignment and dreamboarding. In the light of the given definitions, the resonance is not the same. That‘s also the reason why I find intention to be more important/relevant than the symbols which try to explicate the intention. 🤔

[Blessed2]

4 hours ago, Phil said:

Might be a case of alignment with the addition of a connotation(s) slightly different than the definition(s).

 

Might be.

 

"Hedonistic Taoism" probably isn't even a thing in Taoist philosophy/culture itself. I read about it in a book from a western religious sciences doctor.

 

Maybe it's more like just some monks that were no longer seen in temples studying / practicing, but on the streets enjoying life.

[Phil]

@Blessed2

🙂 Really great thread / subject / topic though. Interesting to compare and contrast. Makes one get down to the brass tacks. 

[Blessed2]

47 minutes ago, Phil said:

@Blessed2

🙂 Really great thread / subject / topic though. Interesting to compare and contrast. Makes one get down to the brass tacks. 

 

Thanks! 🙂

 

I actually have something interesting that has been coming up lately. Loosely related to the subject: