Romantic Relationships are Unnatural

[Orb]

This may sound controversial but it seems to me that relationships are unnatural and are purely a man-made construct. Id like to have a nice discussion on this topic and id also like to mention that i dont think any sex is specifically to blame, i think its a complex issue. 

 

I was watching a video about how nowadays somewhere around 60% of men ages 18-29 are single and "lonely", and they are frustrated in todays dating market and giving up. It really got me thinking about this situation my generation is in. (In the USA)

 

More men are comitting suicide (4x more likely) and have less of a support network for some reason in our society now. 

 

Men are frustrated with this new system, the system where tools such as dating apps are completely uneven and ironically make it tougher to find a gf while women have more freedom than ever and more variety than ever on those apps. I dont use dating apps much as it isnt a priority for me anymore but i still have FB dating just for shits and giggles but honestly i dont even text the women i match with on those apps because the interactions are 9 times out of 10 short lived or we will be messaging for a little while only to never hear from her again lol. 

 

Ive also learned about how women having more freedoms means that more women are seeking to date older guys like in their 30s-40s.

 

So many people in the new generation seem to be suffering in this field. 

 

But then it became clear that this isnt a problem anymore. 

 

I think the reason why so many men are suffering in this time with relationships is because romantic relationships themselves are unnatural and were something we created just to enjoy getting what we want from the woman/man. 

 

As a woman you like the idea of having a male figure to consistently provide you with whatever it is that you want (emotional intimacy, resources, care, attention, etc.). The same goes for men as well. 

 

But we cant possess anyone, and in this new time where women have much more power (which i think is a good thing), this unnatural social construct is beginning to show its limitations. 

 

Another thing too that ive noticed is that the only way to have a monogomous culture where women are all "loyal" to their husbands and will marry younger guys is to oppress them. Basically to scare them with the idea that they are fucked if they dont have a husband. In this way then marrying a man asap is necessary for her survival and she will work hard to please him and be loyal or else shes screwed. 

 

So yeah fundamentally i dont see a problem with the current system at all. I want to question the necessity for a relationship with a woman or man. I think those 60% of men are upset because they were promised a system that ended up crumbling away by the time they were adults. 

 

Why would we have relationships for reasons other than survival and mutual benefits? 

Edited Monday at 01:07 AM by Orb

[Orb]

I dont think we need any relationships at all as crazy as it may sound. 

[A Tim]

42 minutes ago, Orb said:

I dont think we need any relationships at all as crazy as it may sound. 

I don't think it sounds crazy. What is a relationship, anyway? 

 

There's just an apparent biological drive to strive 'forward' through procreation and survival. There are various methods on display across the globe.

We appear to create concepts around the whole thing and muck it up pretty well. The ten commandments are guidelines to try and not muck it up so much, as far as I can tell. I realize your point is regarding power dynamics, but it seems like the effort was initially aimed at guiding human activity toward a more peaceful, "civil" existence. So that worked. 😆

[Isagi Yoichi]

Take a break bro , stop posting

[Phil]

1 hour ago, Orb said:

Why would we have relationships for reasons other than survival and mutual benefits? 

Because it’s awesome. All that’s surviving & benefited is ego anyway. 

[Orb]

35 minutes ago, A Tim said:

I don't think it sounds crazy. What is a relationship, anyway? 

 

There's just an apparent biological drive to strive 'forward' through procreation and survival. There are various methods on display across the globe.

We appear to create concepts around the whole thing and muck it up pretty well. The ten commandments are guidelines to try and not muck it up so much, as far as I can tell. I realize your point is regarding power dynamics, but it seems like the effort was initially aimed at guiding human activity toward a more peaceful, "civil" existence. So that worked. 😆

My fundamental point is that we (the matrix) made all the rules. We wanted to have control over people so we could use them to make us feel pleasure (whether its sexual or emotional or all the lovey dovey sounding stuff its all the same fundamentally) consistently. So women were uneducated and made powerless so they can rely on men, the fear of being banished, shamed, killed, etc. is what created the monogomous society. 

 

Therefore, the assumption that the traditional monogomous relationship with 2 kids and a dog seems to be unnatural and created by the Identity or...Matrix (matrix sounds cooler ngl)

[Orb]

2 minutes ago, Phil said:

Because it’s awesome. All that’s surviving & benefited is ego anyway. 

Im sure its probably nice. 

 

Men and women have beef with each other bc they can have every single thing they want, but unfortunately when it comes to the want for intimacy and sex, that want is contingent on another living being, which means that you have to play games to get what you want which is tiring after a while. 

 

So then the resentment builds up. 

 

"All men just want to fuck and thats all they care about!" 

 

"Women are so complicated and dont make sense!" 

[Phil]

10 minutes ago, Orb said:

Im sure it’s probably nice. 

It’s AWESOME. 

 

10 minutes ago, Orb said:

 

Men and women have beef with each other bc they can have every single thing they want, but unfortunately when it comes to the want for intimacy and sex, that want is contingent on another living being,

No it isn’t. 

 

10 minutes ago, Orb said:

which means that you have to play games to get what you want which is tiring after a while. 

No you don’t. The mindset is egocentric & entirely ineffective and that’s tiring. 

 

10 minutes ago, Orb said:

So then the resentment builds up. 

Come on now. That’s hypothetical resentment. 

 

10 minutes ago, Orb said:

"All men just want to fuck and thats all they care about!" 

That’s cause you got the just want to fuck goggles on so that’s all you care about. I could be speakin in Chinese right now. 

 

10 minutes ago, Orb said:

"Women are so complicated and dont make sense!" 

Women are simple & make perfect sense. Perfect fit in every way. 

[Orb]

 

 

18 minutes ago, Phil said:

No it isn’t. 

How so? If a man wants sex and intimacy from a woman and a woman wants emotional intimacy and sex from a man, isnt there a conflict here because we want something that we cant have easily, therefore we feel like theres a power struggle? 

 

18 minutes ago, Phil said:

No you don’t. The mindset is egocentric & entirely ineffective and that’s tiring. 

The whole dating thing is just games in my experience. I have a burning desire to have sex with a girl im talking to and at the same time pretend that im not interested in sex which is insanity lol. I have to convince her in someway that i have something she wants (could be money, confidence, "love", a certain skill, status, etc ), otherwise why would she want to be with me, there must be something in it for her. 

 

18 minutes ago, Phil said:

Come on now. That’s hypothetical resentment. 

Its everywhere lol. My little cousin was complaining about how dumb guys are because they give mixed signals 😂. 

 

18 minutes ago, Phil said:

That’s cause you got the just want to fuck goggles on so that’s all you care about. I could be speakin in Chinese right now. 

Sex is definitely a priority, but i dont just want to fuck not at all. Ive desired a woman to share my life with and have a family before. But it seems everythings gone to shit in the dating world. Maybe once im done puking things will be easier in that field. 

 

23 minutes ago, Phil said:

Women are simple & make perfect sense. Perfect fit in every way. 

They dont make any sense to me tbh lol

[Enlightened Cat]

It's all psychosomatic and self-created from beliefs about love and emotions. The personal relationship with love and emotions is being projected onto people and things. It is limiting and thus "unnatural" to want emotions from people and things, and those limits are the rules which govern the "game". Personally never played that game, by the way. Beefing with women? Nope, never. Not inherent at all. Neither is feeling lonely. Nothing about gender. Just beliefs about gender.

[Phil]

53 minutes ago, Orb said:

How so? If a man wants sex and intimacy from a woman and a woman wants emotional intimacy and sex from a man, isnt there a conflict here because we want something that we cant have easily, therefore we feel like theres a power struggle? 

No, there’s no conflict there. Men & women desire emotional intimacy and can communicate. Some might hold subjective beliefs they can’t have what’s desired easily and some might not. Each would experience statistics appearing in accordance with what is or isn’t in the lens. Power struggle’s really a table for one situation, but communication’s ongoing and can encompass all of these topics or aspects. It’s deeply beautiful in that way.  🫠 🫠 

 

53 minutes ago, Orb said:

The whole dating thing is just games in my experience. I have a burning desire to have sex with a girl im talking to and at the same time pretend that im not interested in sex which is insanity lol. I have to convince her in someway that i have something she wants (could be money, confidence, "love", a certain skill, status, etc ), otherwise why would she want to be with me, there must be something in it for her. 

Yes, pretending is insanity. Self-worth is inherent and self-evident in being. Sex is a self-conceptualization of love. An illusion. “The games” are reflection, ‘stuff’ yet to be barfed. 🤷 Oh well.

 

Having expectations met seems extra important when an aspect of your being is believed to be coming from an outside source. But wholeness is already whole and just having fun. Classic nothing happening, overlooking the feeling desired is actually coming from inside the house.

 

Mostly simply though she would want to be with you because you’re awesome exactly as you are & aren’t lacking in any way. She most likely is not experiencing the insanity of overemphasis on sex, and therefore is not thinking in terms of what’s in it for her. You would be, what’s in it for her - exactly the same and as simple as - she would be what’s in it for you. As you said, ‘Duh’. 

 

53 minutes ago, Orb said:

Its everywhere lol. My little cousin was complaining about how dumb guys are because they give mixed signals 😂. 

It always starts off everywhere, doesn’t it… then it starts dawning on ya. 😂 😅 

 

53 minutes ago, Orb said:

Sex is definitely a priority, but i dont just want to fuck not at all.

You “trying to hear The Message” while the goggles are on, pretending the “the phone” isn’t ringing:

 

53 minutes ago, Orb said:

Ive desired a woman to share my life with and have a family before. But it seems everythings gone to shit in the dating world. Maybe once im done puking things will be easier in that field. 

One worth emptying some conditioning out for? What if she’s out there doin the same. That’d be nice. Trust me when I say - that would be nice. 😂 😅 

 

53 minutes ago, Orb said:

They dont make any sense to me tbh lol

Yeah, truly fascinating. 

[Blessed2]

3 hours ago, Orb said:

Why would we have relationships for reasons other than survival and mutual benefits? 

 

Maybe we just want relationships and that's it. 🤷

 

 

If there was one good use for nuclear weapons, it would be to nuke the beliefs about survival in connection to intimate/romantic relationships.

 

[Orb]

@Phil honestly im just barfing. Im being honest about all the shit i got going on lol. I totally see the insanity of over emphasis on sex. I just have nowhere to go bc even if i tried to stop overemphasizing sex id only be going in a different non existent direction to try getting what i want (seeking). So im just barfing. 

 

24 minutes ago, Phil said:

 🫠 🫠 

 

 🤷 It always starts off everywhere, doesn’t it… then it starts dawning on ya. 😂 😅 

🤫😶‍🌫️

 

100 percent one worth emptyingnout conditioning for. Today was barf day (barf sounds better than puke), just imagining beating up bullies and crying lol. Yesterday was clear skies and i actually started conversation by asking these girls working at a smokeshop how they did during the hurricane one of them flat out didnt respond and she was right in front of me lol, but i truly didnt care and i felt smoooth 😎. 

 

22 minutes ago, Blessed2 said:

 

Maybe we just want relationships and that's it. 🤷

 

If there was one good use for nuclear weapons, it would be to nuke the beliefs about survival in connection to intimate/romantic relationships.

Seems to me like we cover up all the nasty things with lovely fluff. 

 

I dont know if we are using people but covering it up with all the lovey language. Or if its love. 

[Blessed2]

43 minutes ago, Orb said:

Seems to me like we cover up all the nasty things with lovely fluff. 

 

What does that thought feel like?

 

[A Tim]

9 hours ago, Orb said:

So women were uneducated and made powerless so they can rely on men, the fear of being banished, shamed, killed, etc. is what created the monogomous society. 

This is still a constructed narrative from a point of view

[Jane]

@Orb Maybe it's a sign of the times. The modern woman of today doesn't actually need a man anymore.  And vice versa. Times have changed since back in the olden days when women were soley reliant upon a man mainly for her financial security and the security of the children that the pair bond may or may not have had together.

 

In today's modern technological society, it seems everyone can live a life of financial security, and be wholly independent and totally self-sufficient. Every modern adult today in most, not all parts of the world, basically have all their needs, wants and desires met, they literally have everything they could ever wish or want for in life via a simple click on their iphone or any other computer device.

 

Women today make just as much money as men, if not more. Women and Men both can achieve and do extremely well academically and can excel in very high value jobs,  and even be their own CEO's.  Even education is better, and more readily available,  because of ample government funding for places at university. 

Women today can even go to a sperm bank if she so desired to have children alone, she can choose to raise the children by herself, which she can do quite well and effectively.  Men can adopt children or organise a surrogate to get a baby, men can even just go to a prostitute if he so had a desire for sex without ever having to think about commitment to another....etc etc.

Women and men can have one-night, mutually consenting, no strings attached, sexual flings, if they both agreed to do that.

 

Marriage has become an outdated contract today, that back in the day  was once thought to be designed specifically to serve the children and have their best interest at heart, ensuring their emotional and mental well being and security.  And yet, it doesn't need or have to be like that today.

 Children can often be more emotionally and mentally stable, and happier anyway, with just one loyal, mature, consistent, committed loving parent than they could with two parents who are always at war and being  immature in the way they treat each other.

 

I could go on about the pros and cons of what it means to form human romantic love relationships with each other,  but I'll leave it there, I think I've provided the general gist on the matter.

 

Edited Monday at 12:12 PM by Jane

[Phil]

9 hours ago, Orb said:

its love

 

[Mandy]

The "power and my needs" lens is going to obscure what's really wanted. Alignment with what's really wanted attracts someone who wants the same thing. Then there's synergy, cocreation.

 

Really it's just attraction, attraction, attraction, which isn't what we believe it is. There's no one that is attractive, just attraction. 

 

 

 

[Orb]

I dont understand, you guys all talk as if you dont have an insatiable desire for sex which seems dishonest to me. As if you arent also horny af all the time and could postpone this desire until you "attract" the girl wholl like you. I can postpone it too, but i will experience intense resentment and frustration in the meantime and will be preoccupied with satisfying this desire through masturbation, porn, trying to meetup with a girl. 

 

Im sorry if this is crude but i think this kind of conversation is important to have, i wanna talk human to human and not like some robot. Im coming from the very core of a frustrated man right now, you can point fingers at me and say how weird i am and whatnot but whatever, i know other guys feel this way too im not alone! 

[Orb]

I have a hangup about sex ans dating as is displayed in my previous post. Its frustrating. 

 

I dont want to be a part of this nonsense, i dont want to want sex...but i do! Arg.