Blessed2 Posted June 4 Share Posted June 4 Today some really discordant thoughts arose and then what seemed like a very aligned 'insight'. This is again one of those things that seems to at least right now be really hard to clearly explain but I'll still try, maybe some of you can 'catch' what I'm trying to say. It feels like a HUGE relief. I was reading a Napoleon Hill book (about positive mental attitude) and it gave a list of a number of 'keys' which make about success or happiness. The two first keys were 1. Positive Mental Attitude and 2. A Clear Goal The number two triggered the discordant thoughts. It's kind of the same thing that has felt really off about LOA. See, the thing is that I don't really seem to have any big goals. Like for example, I've tried the creator-creating-creation contemplation a few times and it has felt very discordant, because even if I imagine having, being, doing literally anything I could ever want, there is still this feeling that it's all meaningless and empty. Subtly this feels like pessimism. Not so subtly it feels like despair and fear. So when LOA or such kind of connects alignment (good feeling) with the goal (things and stuff you want), and no things or stuff that would feel good and meaningful comes to mind, then it seems like there just isn't anything to align with. That there just isn't anything to for example, feel eager to experience about. So the intepretation is that first there has to be a desire for something, and then there is alignment, or good feeling. Something must be desired, something must be meaningful first, and only then can there be good feeling. Yet I didn't seem to find any goal that I really really would want, or feel aligned about. So then it seemed like all that good feeling and alignment others talk about just isn't possible for me, because for whatever reason it's as if god or something just had not given me a great burning desire for a hugely meaningful goal, and therefore I just cannot experience alignment and good feeling. That thought felt so discordant that basically the next thing that came to mind was that what I want above all else is that there could be happiness which is not dependent on there being a desire for something, or meaningful things to set as a goal. And that felt like the greatest relief. That there would be no need to have a desire or a goal to experience perfectly good feeling. The 'old' discordant story was: "For there to be good feeling, there must first be a desire and a huge meaningful goal. I don't seem to have that, and therefore good feeling is impossible and life and existence is basically just endless despair and an existential hell." The new, aligned story is something like: "My greatest desire & goal is happiness which does not require that there is desired objects and goals, or meaningful things. Then I might throw some fun little things like friends and some fun times with friends and stuff in there." Does this make any sense to you? With that insight came also a seeing that meaning and meaninglessness are just thoughts that come and go. I have no idea how to explain what that was about specifically. It was like this weird new idea of possibility that meaning is not needed for there to be happiness. That maybe there is a greater happiness that I didn't previously even consider would be possible, and that maybe it is possible, and maybe just this happiness itself can be my goal & desire. Not some objects and things. Now all the 'little things' like friends, hanging out in a park, even going to work make more sense. They are lighthearted and fun. Quote Mention I am the playful and ever-present Source, joyfully embracing every thought and emotion as part of my perfect, unfolding co-creative dream. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Posted June 4 Share Posted June 4 10 hours ago, Blessed2 said: Does this make any sense to you? Yes! Very much so. Quote Mention YouTube Website Sessions Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mandy Posted June 4 Share Posted June 4 Yes. Goals of and for a person are like dementors that suck the fun out of it. It's sort of like planting seeds for recognition later. A couple years ago my neighbor put a bluebird mailbox cover on their mailbox and I thought about how I'd never seen a bluebird in real life and didn't even know if we had them in the area or ever did. It was something I gave little attention to. Later I saw a bluebird on a telephone pole just yards from that mailbox, and when I looked, the mailbox cover had been removed. What sucks is the illusion of control or the one that it's up to to make things happen. That's enough to make anyone tired. 😂 Quote Mention Youtube Channel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mandy Posted June 4 Share Posted June 4 Separate self is not a cause. Quote Mention Youtube Channel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joseph Maynor Posted June 4 Share Posted June 4 38 minutes ago, Mandy said: Yes. Goals of and for a person are like dementors that suck the fun out of it. It's sort of like planting seeds for recognition later. A couple years ago my neighbor put a bluebird mailbox cover on their mailbox and I thought about how I'd never seen a bluebird in real life and didn't even know if we had them in the area or ever did. It was something I gave little attention to. Later I saw a bluebird on a telephone pole just yards from that mailbox, and when I looked, the mailbox cover had been removed. What sucks is the illusion of control or the one that it's up to to make things happen. That's enough to make anyone tired. 😂 I agree with this to an extent. In my experience it's good to have goals even if you don't accomplish them. But yeah, what a terrible life to have goals like a monkey on your back. Goals are one of those things that have to be kinda loosely maintained because they can kill motivation and fun. But then again, without having goals, you may not be focused enough on things that do need to get done. Quote Mention 💬 🗯️🤍 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mandy Posted June 4 Share Posted June 4 @Joseph Maynor Etymology of goal is quite interesting. https://www.etymonline.com/word/goal "limit", boundary. I think what's really wanted from a goal is focus. Quote Mention Youtube Channel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Isagi Yoichi Posted July 4 Share Posted July 4 On 6/4/2024 at 3:37 AM, Blessed2 said: So the intepretation is that first there has to be a desire for something, and then there is alignment, or good feeling. Something must be desired, something must be meaningful first, and only then can there be good feeling. Yet I didn't seem to find any goal that I really really would want, or feel aligned about. So then it seemed like all that good feeling and alignment others talk about just isn't possible for me, because for whatever reason it's as if god or something just had not given me a great burning desire for a hugely meaningful goal, and therefore I just cannot experience alignment and good feeling. yep I feel the same too, but I just meditate and all the positive feelings just come naturally, but there is also this sense of responsibility that u have to have a career and all that stuff society and family enforce u to have ( this likely a belief ) but that's always annoying me u cant just meditate all-day no real desire for anything but that I believe come at the cost of letting external forces dictate your life, I am still struggling with this and it's fucking annoying Quote Mention Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Posted July 4 Share Posted July 4 @Isagi Yoichi Was society before you, direct experience wise? As in, in accordance with direct experience was there a world and then you were born? Apparently happiness can be desire, goals, etc. So maybe there’s no external force really. Cart before the horse situation. Quote Mention YouTube Website Sessions Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Isagi Yoichi Posted July 4 Share Posted July 4 20 minutes ago, Phil said: Apparently happiness can be desire, goals, etc. So maybe there’s no external force really. Cart before the horse situation. I do not have any goals, desires are already preset like those are the 8 desires Human beings are biologically programmed with the following eight desires: 1. Survival, enjoyment of life, life extension. 2. Enjoyment of food and beverages. 3. Freedom from fear, pain, and danger. 4. Sexual companionship. 5. Comfortable living conditions. 6. To be superior, winning, keeping up with the Joneses. 7. Care and protection of loved ones. 8. Social approval. I don't really understand what u mean by desire , happiness cant be a desire Quote Mention Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Posted July 4 Share Posted July 4 @Isagi Yoichi Why can’t happiness appear as desire? Quote Mention YouTube Website Sessions Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Isagi Yoichi Posted July 4 Share Posted July 4 2 minutes ago, Phil said: Why can’t happiness appear as desire? Bec its based on external cricumstance Quote Mention Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Posted July 4 Share Posted July 4 @Isagi Yoichi How so? Quote Mention YouTube Website Sessions Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Isagi Yoichi Posted July 4 Share Posted July 4 (edited) 4 minutes ago, Phil said: @Isagi Yoichi How so? u can just meditate and be happy while a desire u are depending on external condition to be happy Edited July 4 by Isagi Yoichi Quote Mention Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Posted July 4 Share Posted July 4 @Isagi Yoichi Why? Quote Mention YouTube Website Sessions Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Isagi Yoichi Posted July 4 Share Posted July 4 1 minute ago, Phil said: @Isagi Yoichi Why? Bec its a desire lol Quote Mention Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Posted July 4 Share Posted July 4 @Isagi Yoichi Why the framing though? Because that’s what you’ve heard? Because you believe it? Isn’t external condition, a condition? Quote Mention YouTube Website Sessions Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Isagi Yoichi Posted July 4 Share Posted July 4 @Phil So what is a Desire? I was going to create a thread about this question anyways lol Quote Mention Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThePoint Posted July 4 Share Posted July 4 (edited) 7 minutes ago, Isagi Yoichi said: @Phil So what is a Desire? I was going to create a thread about this question anyways lol Opposite side of the same coin, sharing it with aversion Edited July 4 by ThePoint Quote Mention Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Posted July 4 Share Posted July 4 10 minutes ago, Isagi Yoichi said: @Phil So what is a Desire? Clarify it by being specific to direct experience. Quote Mention YouTube Website Sessions Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Isagi Yoichi Posted July 4 Share Posted July 4 11 minutes ago, Phil said: Clarify it by being specific to direct experience. Idk Quote Mention Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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