Does anyone else find it weird that there is no self?

[Joseph Maynor]

15 minutes ago, James123 said:

Self is just a temporary reflection. 

 

 

😂

[Jane]

23 minutes ago, James123 said:

Self is just a temporary reflection. 

 

Omg I love that 👍😎

[Joseph Maynor]

5 minutes ago, Jane said:

Omg I love that 👍😎

I feel the opposite.  😝

[Joseph Maynor]

No Self people are strange because it's an incomprehensible philosophical position.  They deny any sense of an I.  I'm not talking about no self people, I'm talking about people who don't even acknowledge some sense of I.  There is nothing more hilarious than "I don't exist." 
 

Don't throw the baby (The Self) out with the bathwater (the self).  You can't chop the Masculine (Yang), the I, off so easily and just pretend there is no I entirely.  That goes too far in the Feminine (Yin) direction -- ideologically rejecting the I, The Individual.  This is the Divine Feminine, which is also Masculine (because the Divine is Masculine), which states: The individual doesn't exist, only the Whole (The We) exists.  The relation/link is thereby taking hierarchy over the thing, the substance, the particular in a kind of reversal of prior hierarchy.  Yin and Yang, the Feminine and the Masculine are in a relation.  To kill that relation and to side with one side over and against the other will never work.  They're both here and "working together" (Derrida: Interplay, Me: Working With, Nietzsche/Barthes: "Interplaying") to create the drama of the Dream/Maya/Movie/Etc.

New video by Emerald I wanted to share on the issue of the complex interplay between Yin vs./and Yang, and this might point some of us into a different space which might /could get me/us beyond unconscious -- "I win, you lose" mentality.
 

I love this video  too.  This might be one of my very favorite of Emerald's video, but that's a hard choice!
 

 

Edited June 23 by Joseph Maynor

[James123]

3 hours ago, Joseph Maynor said:

No Self people are strange because it's an incomprehensible philosophical position.  They deny any sense of an I.  I'm not talking about no self people, I'm talking about people who don't even acknowledge some sense of I.  There is nothing more hilarious than "I don't exist."  Don't throw the baby (The Self) out with the bathwater (the self).  You can't chop the Masculine (Yang), the I, off so easily and just pretend there is no I entirely.  That goes too far in the Feminine (Yin) direction -- ideologically rejecting the I, The Individual.  This is the Divine Feminine, which is also Masculine (because the Divine is Masculine), which states: The individual doesn't exist, only the Whole (The We) exists.  The relation/link is thereby taking hierarchy over the thing, the substance, the particular in a kind of reversal of prior hierarchy.  Yin and Yang, the Feminine and the Masculine are in a relation.  To kill that relation and to side with one side over and against the other will never work.  They're both here and "working together" (Derrida: Interplay, Me: Working With, Nietzsche/Barthes: "Interplaying") to create the drama of the Dream/Maya/Movie/Etc.

New video by Emerald I wanted to share on the issue of the complex interplay between Yin vs./and Yang, and this might point some of us into a different space which might /could get me/us beyond unconscious -- "I win, you lose" mentality.
 

 

I love this video  too.  This might be one of my very favorite of Emerald's video, but that's a hard choice!
 

 

What is the ego or self for you? 

[Joseph Maynor]

2 hours ago, James123 said:

What is the ego or self for you? 

 

The ego (the self/the other) is the mind overlaying/sublating the Self with attachment to the illusory world (Maya).  The Self is Pure Nondual Consciousness (Atman/Chit), which is the only True Underlying Existence (Brahman/Sat).  Ananda is the unchanging Peace of being the Pure Nondual Self, being True Underlying Existence.  => Sat, Chit, Ananda.  Now, keep in mind that this language is just one giant finger pointing to the moon!  Self-realization, the moon, has to be realized through direct experience.  This is important to note -- because otherwise it can appear to be intellectual theorizing and is often written off that way.  No, the words are just a pointer.  Self-realization is not a belief in any philosophy.  The philosophy is used (1) for fun* (I can't deny it) and (2) to try to help another attain Self-realization which is what Love is.  *Theory is fun for me as I was a philosophy major in college and have studied world philosophy, and this is something I have to keep in mind when sharing spiritual enlightenment is to make sure I communicate that the theory is just a pointer and a kind of "scaffolding" that can fall away for Self-realization which comes only through direct experience.  Don't confuse direct experience for sense experience.  It's discovering I Am.  Some say I Am God, but I think the God part is unnecessary and only causes confusion.  Just I Am.  Those 2 words are the most succinct pointer: I Am.  

Edited June 23 by Joseph Maynor

[James123]

1 hour ago, Joseph Maynor said:

 

The ego (the self/the other) is the mind overlaying/sublating the Self with attachment to the illusory world (Maya).  The Self is Pure Nondual Consciousness (Atman/Chit), which is the only True Underlying Existence (Brahman/Sat).  Ananda is the unchanging Peace of being the Pure Nondual Self, being True Underlying Existence.  => Sat, Chit, Ananda.  Now, keep in mind that this language is just one giant finger pointing to the moon!  Self-realization, the moon, has to be realized through direct experience.  This is important to note -- because otherwise it can appear to be intellectual theorizing and is often written off that way.  No, the words are just a pointer.  Self-realization is not a belief in any philosophy.  The philosophy is used (1) for fun* (I can't deny it) and (2) to try to help another attain Self-realization which is what Love is.  *Theory is fun for me as I was a philosophy major in college and have studied world philosophy, and this is something I have to keep in mind when sharing spiritual enlightenment is to make sure I communicate that the theory is just a pointer and a kind of "scaffolding" that can fall away for Self-realization which comes only through direct experience.  Don't confuse direct experience for sense experience.  It's discovering I Am.  Some say I Am God, but I think the God part is unnecessary and only causes confusion.  Just I Am.  Those 2 words are the most succinct pointer: I Am.  

Maya, self, universe etc... Anything you have learned including these sentences are ego. Drop them, let go them. Than sky is clear. Empty your cup.

[Joseph Maynor]

3 hours ago, James123 said:

Maya, self, universe etc... Anything you have learned including these sentences are ego. Drop them, let go them. Than sky is clear. Empty your cup.

Great article below that is right in line with your view -- I read this article and commented on it 5 years ago.

"The Birth and Death of Fundamentalism in Nonduality and Advaita Teachings" -- by Jeff Foster
https://www.lifewithoutacentre.com/writings/the-birth-and-death-of-fundamentalism-in-nonduality-and-advaita-teachings/

 

[Spiritual Kung Fu Template]: You got more to go/grow friend.  You always try to diminish me (and others) which shows that you're engaged in spiritual kung fu.  You need to win, just like every human in the dream ( including myself).  You have to see how this works at a more meta level, instead of trying to ignore that elephant in the room.  This is not you alone, this is almost everyone (except for Me)!  It's called Samsara/Maya/The Dream.  Everyone wants to Be Right, not just be -- but Be Right!  Being Good (check) + Intellect Good (check) = I'm Good (double check).  Checkmate!!

Edited June 24 by Joseph Maynor

[James123]

27 minutes ago, Joseph Maynor said:

Great article below that is right in line with your view -- I read this article and commented on it 5 years ago.

"The Birth and Death of Fundamentalism in Nonduality and Advaita Teachings" -- by Jeff Foster
https://www.lifewithoutacentre.com/writings/the-birth-and-death-of-fundamentalism-in-nonduality-and-advaita-teachings/

 

[Spiritual Kung Fu Template]: You got more to go/grow friend.  You always try to diminish me (and others) which shows that you're engaged in spiritual kung fu.  You need to win, just like every human in the dream ( including myself).  You have to see how this works at a more meta level, instead of trying to ignore that elephant in the room.  This is not you alone, this is almost everyone!  It's called Samsara/Maya/The Dream.  Everyone wants to Be Right, not just be -- but Be Right!  Being Good (check) + Intellect Good (check) = I'm Good (double check).  Checkmate!

Lol. İ am just telling to truth. Why should I win? Lol. No worries brother. All is good.

 

Peace!

[Joseph Maynor]

3 minutes ago, James123 said:

Lol. İ am just telling to truth. Why should I win? Lol. No worries brother. All is good.

 

Peace!

 

What is Love?  

[James123]

17 minutes ago, Joseph Maynor said:

 

What is Love?  

Look at the mirror. You will see. 

[Jane]

18 hours ago, Joseph Maynor said:

I feel the opposite.  😝

I liked it, it resonates with me, it’s true that nothing lasts forever because everything is indeed temporary, here today gone tomorrow. 
 

The dream is all there is. And there is nothing in a dream or reflection, nothing is happening. 🤫

[Mandy]

10 hours ago, Joseph Maynor said:

Great article below that is right in line with your view -- I read this article and commented on it 5 years ago.

"The Birth and Death of Fundamentalism in Nonduality and Advaita Teachings" -- by Jeff Foster
https://www.lifewithoutacentre.com/writings/the-birth-and-death-of-fundamentalism-in-nonduality-and-advaita-teachings/

 

[Spiritual Kung Fu Template]: You got more to go/grow friend.  You always try to diminish me (and others) which shows that you're engaged in spiritual kung fu.  You need to win, just like every human in the dream ( including myself).  You have to see how this works at a more meta level, instead of trying to ignore that elephant in the room.  This is not you alone, this is almost everyone (except for Me)!  It's called Samsara/Maya/The Dream.  Everyone wants to Be Right, not just be -- but Be Right!  Being Good (check) + Intellect Good (check) = I'm Good (double check).  Checkmate!!

No one is putting up a fight. It's like the cat fighting its reflection in the mirror. 

[Joseph Maynor]

The Self != the self.  This is Knowledge (The Self is the chief object of knowledge).  And something that slips the mind of everyone, including Joseph Maynor.  What is being said is so radical that the mind is not going to accept it.  Of course!  This is entirely predictable.  The Self != Joseph Maynor.  The Self is Pure Unchanging Awareness -- the Watcher.  The Self is like the sun the light that illuminates everything changing, it's standing back and Observing all the change.  And notice that this Self never changes. It's always there.  The Witness is always there, and what exists no matter what changing forms present in experience.  That Unchanging Witness is the Underlying Reality.  Actually it's not a reality because it's You.  It's That which is Witnessing reality.  It's the Changeless observing the change.

[Phil]

On 6/23/2024 at 12:00 PM, Joseph Maynor said:

No Self people are strange because it's an incomprehensible philosophical position.  They deny any sense of an I.  I'm not talking about no self people, I'm talking about people who don't even acknowledge some sense of I. 

‘No self people’ has a few assumptions baked into it. That one is a person, that there are people / other people, and that other people experience beliefs such as that there is no self. Each of these assumptions is a position.

 

That the separate self of thoughts is thoughts and is not a self, and that there are not selves or people, is not a position or positions. It’s reality as is. The notion that there are ‘no self people’ is akin to there being ‘no unicorn people’ or ‘no self unicorns’. 

 

As there are no selves believing in accordance with direct experience, any denial experienced is actually directly experienced and is not of selves. That denial is the sense of I. The narrative of there being people who do or don’t acknowledge a sense of I - is separation, which again is directly experienced as thoughts and not perception (of selves). 

 

On 6/23/2024 at 12:00 PM, Joseph Maynor said:

There is nothing more hilarious than "I don't exist." 

The I which is ‘a sense’ is presumed to be ‘a sense’. In direct experience the I which would be presumed to be a sense is, thoughts… and perhaps, feelings, as a conceptualization of feeling on behalf of the illusory second self. 

 

15 minutes ago, Joseph Maynor said:

 

The Self != the self. This is Knowledge (The Self is the chief object of knowledge). And something that slips the mind of everyone, including Joseph Maynor. What is being said is so radical that the mind is not going to accept it. Of course! This is entirely predictable.

The Self as in infinite does not equal the self as in finite. Infinite could not know of finite nor of an equal. The Self as in infinite would not know what knowledge or an object of knowledge is, as infinite is self-aware. None of this slips the mind of anyone, as again these beliefs are directly experienced if experienced at all. Therein as well, there is actually no one to accept or not accept any thing at all. 🤷 

[Phil]

On 6/2/2024 at 9:08 AM, Reena said:

I don't know if I'm the only one. But I can't function normally mentally if I think there is no self. 

‘Does anyone else find it weird that there is no self?‘

 

Anyone else who finds it weird that there is no self, would be an other. If there is an other, awareness aware of these thoughts would be identifying by thoughts, believing it is a separate (of others) self. 

 

Direct experience can be questioned in regard to where the alleged self presently is, and on whom’s behalf there are (discordant) feelings. Therein via inspecting direct experience, lies liberation from suffering.

[Jane]

On 6/23/2024 at 5:00 PM, Joseph Maynor said:

Don't throw the baby (The Self) out with the bathwater (the self). 

Who would be doing such an action though?  The Self or the self?

 

Is it not known that the the little ('s') is an illusory character known only to the big ('S')

And that it is also known to the big ('S') that the little ('s') can't do or know anything, because the little ('s') is  just an illusory character, it's not real.

So that leaves only the big ('S') left to do the action of throwing out the baby with the bathwater...is that right, or wrong, what do you say? Thanks Joseph. 🙂

 

 

[Jane]

@Joseph Maynor Thanks for your response which I read with much resonance and totally understood and agreed with what you’ve said.

 

I loved the way you explain these important facts about not taking the nondual message to literal extremes.

 

I guess for me personally, I am understanding the “throwing the baby out with the bath water” analogy to a similar analogy to the metaphor “ before enlightenment chop wood carry water, after enlightenment chop wood carry water”
 

 

It’s always wise not to take nonduality the wrong way, and to realise it’s not intending to debase the “human being” in any way, rather it’s pointing to something that lifts it’s spirit into a better understanding of it’s real and true nature, which has to be a good positive thing…or which I’m guessing if taken literally it could well lead to all sorts of problematic mental problems for those who are not ready to hear it, if it’s not heard properly, then it’s true meaning is missed, or overlooked.

 

btw, what happened to your response? Did you delete it, I love it.

Edited June 25 by Jane

[Joseph Maynor]

@Jane Here’s what I wrote.  I deleted it because I’m not sure I’m helping or hurting I’m trying to explain something that really can’t be put into words — although I’m trying my best.

 

Everything changing is an illusion, including things taking action.  I think what separates Advaita Vedanta from other forms of nonduality is in Advaita Vedanta the point is to transcend from the changing world, whereas in other forms of nonduality the duality/division between Self and not-Self is seen to be an error.  But that's only because not-Self is taken to be real.  It's really just Self and illusion.  This form of nonduality is not for people who want to attach to the world, that's what makes it so extreme.  Nobody wants it, of course, because it's devastating to worldly life.  So people create forms of nonduality that save the world and everything the ego wants.  The Self is Pure Undifferentiated Consciousness that is Me.  The Self does not take actions.  Joseph Maynor is part of the illusion.  This is not nonduality lite.  That should be said.  Naturally, the ego is going to hate this spirituality.  It's not appreciated until Self-realization occurs -- where the I gets transferred like a baton from the self to the Self.  I can say this is probably exceedingly rare amongst the population of spiritual seekers because it requires a change in identity so extreme that most are not going to have the experience of it.

 

And of course, one can go back into the illusion as well by identifying with the I-Thought pointed outward, you (the mind) just realizes the error when this is occurring.  (The mind knows that it's full of it because You know who You are.)  Joseph Maynor in the movie will continue, but that ain't Me.  So Joseph Maynor will continue to develop and live his human life as if nothing has changed from outward appearances.  What has changed is how Joseph Maynor sees Himself inside.  But I think an error people make is to think this somehow changes Joseph Maynor as a person, but that's like a mirror thinking it needs to control what appears in its lens.  This is what I mean by the Self has no interest in controlling the self, and it couldn't do so anyway.  The self is an illusion.  The Mirror (Self) doesn't care what appears in its lens (self and other).  But what appears in the mirror's lens is still Witnessed, including all the emotions of Joseph Maynor's life.  So it's not like anything changes in that way.  I'm still going to be identified with Joseph Maynor as the Self in the sense that a Witness is attached to what it's witnessing.

 

It's not like the Self has emotions, but the Self Witnesses emotions, thoughts, things in the world, bodies, etc.  But those will be Known to be not-Self and an illusory identification.  People make the mistake of thinking the Self is totally cut off from Witnessing the self, as if the self has to be this kind of enlightened pure being.  That is exactly what I mean when I say the Self != the self and that the Self doesn't control the self.  It's a huge trap.  People are trying to "embody" spiritual enlightenment.  That is ego.  And that is fine.  There are forms of nonduality that preserve the ego in this way.  I'm not saying everybody needs to do what I do.  I'm just expressing and sharing what's resonating with me right now in terms of spirituality.  There's probably a tiny percentage of people that would ever find Advaita Vedanta something they would wish upon themselves.  Most people will remain in Samsara, naturally, and be identified with the mind, body, emotions, ego, the human, the other, worldly concerns, etc.  And that's ok.  I'm just presenting a different perspective.  And not unexpectedly, this perspective will never be popular.  It's made popular when it's combined with ego in "spiritual enlightenment lite" like the Neo-Adaitans do almost as a kind of alternative to psychological therapy.

Edited June 25 by Joseph Maynor

[Jane]

@Joseph Maynor Honestly Joseph you are doing a fantastic job. 
 

Im so pleased you’ve reinstated your nondual expressions. Thanks, they are of great value to those who genuinely want to hear this message.

 

And yes, I agree that our usage of words can often be clumsy in our attempts to say what exactly we mean. But as they say, those with eyes and ears will understand anyway. 
 

🙏❤️