Phil Posted June 2 Share Posted June 2 2 minutes ago, Joseph Maynor said: Are you suggesting your spirituality is not egocentric? That’d still be egocentric. Unicorncentrism. Quote Mention YouTube Website Sessions Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joseph Maynor Posted June 2 Share Posted June 2 (edited) 3 minutes ago, Phil said: That’d still be egocentric. Unicorncentrism. Yes. So Phil's spirituality is egocentric too, no? You're stating truisms here and I agree. But so what? Is there something wrong? This is a trick question: Who's spirituality would not be egocentric? Edited June 2 by Joseph Maynor Quote Mention 💬 🗯️🤍 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Posted June 2 Share Posted June 2 Just now, Joseph Maynor said: Yes. So Phil's spirituality is egocentric too, no? Spirituality is framed as an object on behalf of a subject of subjects. Quote Mention YouTube Website Sessions Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joseph Maynor Posted June 2 Share Posted June 2 (edited) 5 minutes ago, Phil said: Spirituality is framed as an object on behalf of a subject of subjects. Of course. That's language for ya. That's why it's all egocentric spirituality. The question is how does one attain non-egocentric spirituality? And then what would that be or look like. But of course, that could not be stated in language but for being pointed to. This reminds me of the dilemma of two egos pointing at each other calling each other the ego. That's not how it's resolved. There needs to be a Transcendence somehow, but that Transcendence isn't going to change what's happening with the language and so on for anyone. If language is being used to discuss spirituality, that's egocentric spirituality. Edited June 2 by Joseph Maynor Quote Mention 💬 🗯️🤍 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Posted June 2 Share Posted June 2 3 minutes ago, Joseph Maynor said: Of course. That's language for ya. That's why it's all egocentric spirituality. The question is how does one attain non-egocentric spirituality? And then what would that be or look like. But of course, that could not be stated in language but for being pointed to. This reminds me of the dilemma of two egos pointing at each other calling each other the ego. On 5/28/2024 at 9:30 AM, Phil said: “The word gullible is not in the dictionary”. Can this claim be verified? Yes. Check a dictionary and sure enough, there it is. ”There are crocodiles”. In so far as the thought points to appearance (‘an appearance’), can it be verified? Yes. Go to Florida or a zoo. ”There are egos, which are / are like crocodiles” In so far as the thought points to appearance (‘an appearance’), can it be verified? No. Why? Quote Mention YouTube Website Sessions Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orb Posted June 2 Share Posted June 2 6 minutes ago, Joseph Maynor said: Of course. That's language for ya. That's why it's all egocentric spirituality. The question is how does one attain non-egocentric spirituality? And then what would that be or look like. But of course, that could not be stated in language but for being pointed to. This reminds me of the dilemma of two egos pointing at each other calling each other the ego. That's not how it's resolved. There needs to be a Transcendence somehow, but that Transcendence isn't going to change what's happening with the language and so on for anyone. If language is being used to discuss spirituality, that's egocentric spirituality. Too much over analyzing and conceptualizing. Quote Mention "Mediocrity is gone. Mind is clear of limitation. I seek no state of enlightenment. Neither do I remain where no enlightenment exists. Since I linger in neither condition, eyes cannot see me. If hundreds of birds strew my path with flowers, such praise would be meaningless." - A Comment on the 8th Ox Herding Picture Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joseph Maynor Posted June 2 Share Posted June 2 Just now, Orb said: Too much over analyzing and conceptualizing. Okay that's the issue then. Does Phil overanalyze and over conceptualize ? It sems as though his posts would fit this too. Right? Quote Mention 💬 🗯️🤍 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orb Posted June 2 Share Posted June 2 5 minutes ago, Joseph Maynor said: Okay that's the issue then. Does Phil overanalyze and over conceptualize ? It sems as though his posts would fit this too. Right? From what I've read, no. No offense but the way you communicate gives me the impression that these are just theories for you. I think letting go of knowledge will help immensely. Quote Mention "Mediocrity is gone. Mind is clear of limitation. I seek no state of enlightenment. Neither do I remain where no enlightenment exists. Since I linger in neither condition, eyes cannot see me. If hundreds of birds strew my path with flowers, such praise would be meaningless." - A Comment on the 8th Ox Herding Picture Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joseph Maynor Posted June 2 Share Posted June 2 Just now, Orb said: No offense but the way you communicate gives me the impression that these are just theories for you. I think letting go of knowledge will help immensely. They're pointers to the Self not just theories. Quote Mention 💬 🗯️🤍 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mandy Posted June 2 Share Posted June 2 24 minutes ago, Joseph Maynor said: Are you suggesting your spirituality is not egocentric? I don't see how spirituality which is stated in language could avoid being egocentric, since it is in the realm of ego. I'm not taking this negatively if that's what you're suggesting. Of course it's egocentric. Joseph Maynor is an ego. Phil is an ego. It's like saying Harry Potter is an ego, Dumbledore is an ego, and Voldemort is an ego. They aren't. That's as far as it goes, they aren't. Quote Mention Youtube Channel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joseph Maynor Posted June 2 Share Posted June 2 Just now, Mandy said: It's like saying Harry Potter is an ego, Dumbledore is an ego, and Voldemort is an ego. They aren't. That's as far as it goes, they aren't. Can you explain to me what I'm not getting Mandy? I'm open. Quote Mention 💬 🗯️🤍 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orb Posted June 2 Share Posted June 2 3 minutes ago, Joseph Maynor said: They're pointers to the Self not just theories. Has this realization truly revealed itself in your experience? If not then it's just theories. It's like if someone never actually self realized yet they learned all the concepts and taught it under the guise of "these are just pointers". Which I suspect is happening right now. Quote Mention "Mediocrity is gone. Mind is clear of limitation. I seek no state of enlightenment. Neither do I remain where no enlightenment exists. Since I linger in neither condition, eyes cannot see me. If hundreds of birds strew my path with flowers, such praise would be meaningless." - A Comment on the 8th Ox Herding Picture Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joseph Maynor Posted June 2 Share Posted June 2 Just now, Orb said: Has this realization truly revealed itself in your experience? If not then it's just theories. It's like if someone never actually self realized yet they learned all the concepts and taught it under the guise of "these are just pointers". Which I suspect is happening right now. I want to hear what Mandy has to say. Quote Mention 💬 🗯️🤍 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mandy Posted June 2 Share Posted June 2 @Joseph Maynor Why can't we say that the cookie monster is an ego? I mean we can, we can say that he is taken over by the ego the unconsciousness of addiction and gluttony, etc, but why is it funny? Quote Mention Youtube Channel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orb Posted June 2 Share Posted June 2 3 minutes ago, Joseph Maynor said: I want to hear what Mandy has to say. Sure. Because of the flimsiness of language I'll add this. No one self realizes and self realization doesn't actually happen. Quote Mention "Mediocrity is gone. Mind is clear of limitation. I seek no state of enlightenment. Neither do I remain where no enlightenment exists. Since I linger in neither condition, eyes cannot see me. If hundreds of birds strew my path with flowers, such praise would be meaningless." - A Comment on the 8th Ox Herding Picture Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joseph Maynor Posted June 2 Share Posted June 2 1 minute ago, Mandy said: @Joseph Maynor Why can't we say that the cookie monster is an ego? I mean we can, we can say that he is taken over by the ego the unconsciousness of addiction and gluttony, etc, but why is it funny? Here's what I don't understand Mandy. Why is what I say egocentric spirituality and what Phil says presumably not? I'm happy to listen here. I'm not agitated, I hope none of you are. I genuinely want to understand what the issue is here so it can be corrected. Quote Mention 💬 🗯️🤍 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orb Posted June 2 Share Posted June 2 4 minutes ago, Joseph Maynor said: Here's what I don't understand Mandy. Why is what I say egocentric spirituality and what Phil says presumably not? I'm happy to listen here. I'm not agitated, I hope none of you are. I genuinely want to understand what the issue is here so it can be corrected. You're not enlightened. Quote Mention "Mediocrity is gone. Mind is clear of limitation. I seek no state of enlightenment. Neither do I remain where no enlightenment exists. Since I linger in neither condition, eyes cannot see me. If hundreds of birds strew my path with flowers, such praise would be meaningless." - A Comment on the 8th Ox Herding Picture Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joseph Maynor Posted June 2 Share Posted June 2 1 minute ago, Orb said: You're not enlightened. Joseph Maynor is not enlightened, correct. We agree. Quote Mention 💬 🗯️🤍 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orb Posted June 2 Share Posted June 2 2 minutes ago, Joseph Maynor said: Joseph Maynor is not enlightened, correct. We agree. Lol true. I just wanted to see how you'd react. 😌 Quote Mention "Mediocrity is gone. Mind is clear of limitation. I seek no state of enlightenment. Neither do I remain where no enlightenment exists. Since I linger in neither condition, eyes cannot see me. If hundreds of birds strew my path with flowers, such praise would be meaningless." - A Comment on the 8th Ox Herding Picture Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mandy Posted June 2 Share Posted June 2 @Joseph Maynor It's not, it's immediate, the focus on the separate self. The words aren't owned and aren't coming from anyone. That's what channeling is. Quote Mention Youtube Channel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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