When you miss a step, walking down a stairway

[Phil]

@Someone here

Would you like the truth or something more conversational?

[Someone here]

7 minutes ago, Phil said:

@Someone here

Would you like the truth or something more conversational?

Just the truth of course brother .

Because for your information you are not the only one teaching this ..neither these days nor from thousands of years ago.  it was teached in the Sutras of Buddhism and the Vedas of Hinduism. 

And today you have people like Jim Newman, Tony Parsons, Anna Brown etc saying exactly the same thing (there is no you ..only being..there is no right or wrong ..its all love etc) 

So I ask .. these people (including you )..did you derive this Insight from experience or from reading modern or ancient nonduality?  

[WhiteOwl]

9 minutes ago, Someone here said:

So I ask .. these people (including you )..did you derive this Insight from experience or from reading modern or ancient nonduality?  

Of course they derived it from experience, there is nothing else to be done, otherwise you just believe in a fairytale. The question to return to is, do YOU find any seperate selves in your experience? Dont make it about any teachers, who cares what anyone says if you can't verify it. Its just people like you and me (and not even), before you gloryfying and pedestalling them into teachers.

Look yourself

Edited May 21 by WhiteOwl

[Phil]

24 minutes ago, Someone here said:

@Phil from where did you get the insight that there is no separate selves or no separation at all? 

The one who gets insights would of course be one separate of insights, the separate self of thoughts. Insights are just thoughts. Like memories. All present-apparent-experience as it were. 

 

That there aren’t unicorns isn’t an insight a unicorn gets. This is just reality. 

 

24 minutes ago, Someone here said:

Did you experience it first hand in maybe a psychedelic trip or deep meditation or is it just hearsay from nonduality books and spiritual teachers who are the trend now Ib the west teaching Yoga and Meditation and nonduality?  Basically watering down eastern philosophy for western audiences? 

Same with ‘the one which experiences an it’. These are good titles for Friends episodes, but this isn’t realistic. 

 

Story of a self & a past wise, no.

 

There was no experience whatsoever of nonduality books or teachers, neither in person nor via videos.

 

Just daily meditation, exercise, cleaning up the diet and a sincere interest in what’s actually true. Put another way, no concepts, no conceptualizing, no listening to anyone’s concepts / conceptualizing. 

[Phil]

24 minutes ago, Someone here said:

Just the truth of course brother .

Because for your information you are not the only one teaching this

It’s clearly stated in the guidelines as well as nearly every monthly zoom call that there is no teacher here / I am not a teacher.  

 

24 minutes ago, Someone here said:

..neither these days nor from thousands of years ago. 

Verify that stuff in direct experience presently. 

 

24 minutes ago, Someone here said:

it was teached in the Sutras of Buddhism and the Vedas of Hinduism. 

And today you have people like Jim Newman, Tony Parsons, Anna Brown etc saying exactly the same thing (there is no you ..only being..there is no right or wrong ..its all love etc) 

So I ask .. these people (including you )..did you derive this Insight from experience or from reading modern or ancient nonduality?  

You have is a projection of discordant beliefs. I’ve none of that. Zilch. Zero. Nada. 

 

Jim Newman, as it were, is sincerity. The genuine article. Truthful. Non-manipulation, non-deception, non-Jim Newman.

 

That there isn’t experience is not derived of experience. 

 

Meditation might be best thought of as allowing everything you’re wanting to manifest. 

[Someone here]

14 minutes ago, WhiteOwl said:

Of course they derived it from experience, there is nothing else to be done, otherwise you just believe in a fairytale. The question to return to is, do YOU find any seperate selves in your experience? Dont make it about any teachers, who cares what anyone says if you can't verify it. Its just people like you and me (and not even), before you gloryfying and pedestalling them into teachers.

Look yourself

You would have to first define what exactly do you mean by "separate self ".

Notice that you asked me using the word "you ".

13 minutes ago, Phil said:

The one who gets insights would of course be one separate of insights, the separate self of thoughts. Insights are just thoughts. Like memories. All present-apparent-experience as it were. 

 

That there aren’t unicorns isn’t an insight a unicorn gets. This is just reality. 

 

Same with ‘the one which experiences an it’. These are good titles for Friends episodes, but this isn’t realistic. 

 

Story of a self & a past wise, no.

 

There was no experience whatsoever of nonduality books or teachers, neither in person nor via videos.

 

Just daily meditation, exercise, cleaning up the diet and a sincere interest in what’s actually true. Put another way, no concepts, no conceptualizing, no listening to anyone’s concepts / conceptualizing. 

OK thanks . It seems like you are totally engrossed in this whole philosophy. And as long as that is the case ..conversation with you will always be a pain in the ass . I yesterday asked you if you can rape your own child and you didn't tell me gtfo here ..instead you doubled down on this nondual woo..

So when a galaxy disappears..or when a dog rapes another dog its all unconditional love doing what it does . It's interesting and it works temporarily In relieving the hardships of  life .but imo its delusion and not sustainable. Yon need to awaken FROM that . I hope that's no offence. Its just my opinion. 

[Phil]

23 minutes ago, Someone here said:

You would have to first define what exactly do you mean by "separate self ".

No, actually I don’t. 🙂

 

23 minutes ago, Someone here said:

Notice that you asked me using the word "you ".

Also a belief. A presumption. 

 

Meditation is great for slowing thought activity down and noticing beliefs & presumptions as well. 

 

23 minutes ago, Someone here said:

OK thanks . It seems like you are totally engrossed in this whole philosophy.

This isn’t a philosophy. Philosophy is the thought philosophy. That’s the conceptualizing of This referred to earlier. 

 

23 minutes ago, Someone here said:

And as long as that is the case ..conversation with you will always be a pain in the ass .

No, a discordant belief. 

 

23 minutes ago, Someone here said:

I yesterday asked you if you can rape your own child and you didn't tell me gtfo here ..instead you doubled down on this nondual woo..

Apparently the finite mind refers to the reality of nonduality and the law of attraction as woo. Keep listening to teachers & that manipulation & deception, or change the channel so to speak, meditate, clean up the diet, exercise and self-realize. Makes no difference to me. 

 

23 minutes ago, Someone here said:

So when a galaxy disappears..or when a dog rapes another dog it’s all unconditional love doing what it does . It's interesting and it works temporarily In relieving the hardships of  life .but imo its delusion and not sustainable. Yon need to awaken FROM that . I hope that's no offence. It’s just my opinion. 

Perhaps the key aspect of manipulation & deception is that there is separation, things such as galaxies, dogs, etc… and then a reinforcing the separate self of thought, as if the separate self which there isn’t is going accept, love etc it’s way to self-realization. Might make for a nice movie but again, it’s not realistic. 

 

Unconditional love is appearance, not a separate self, a doer doing. 

 

‘The hardships of life’ is a thought like philosophy. Personal ideology too. Beliefs which uphold the separate self of thoughts. The one for whom there is separation, something other than self; life. This opens the door to deeper psychological manipulation & deception as it were; purpose, meaning, value and worth. The manipulation & deception is that these aren’t just thoughts. Concepts. Beliefs. Thought attachment. 

 

”The relief”, is yourself, and is experientially bodily relief from the contraction & discord of ‘holding’ all of this nonsense as true.

 

”You need” is a projection and is the evidence of the discord. 

 

One which needs to awaken from any thing at all is again, the sep self of thoughts, the one which has awakenings. 

 

 

[Someone here]

@Phil you are so loveable and hilarious do you know that ? 😂 🙏

[Phil]

@Someone here

That’s Self. ♥️ 

[Someone here]

@Phil ❤️

You've been telling me this stuff for close to 5 years now(I joined actualized in 2020)...and it is still falling on deaf ears ..yet you repeat it to me as if it's the first time . 

In your opinion why is it not clicking in my mind so to speak ?

[Mandy]

@Someone here Maybe because you've been brainwashed into believing a narrative that will never tolerate, nor recognize, nor confirm, nor appreciate what it is to be awake. 

 

[Phil]

@Someone here

The belief about a separate self, which is the inverse belief with there being teachers, meaning, purpose, value, worth, philosophy, ideologies about consciousness, awakenings, etc, etc, etc seems to have been reinforced deeply. 

 

Meditation is great for slowing down thought activity, which is all that is (seems) veiling of truth. 

Creating a dreamboard is consciously creating.

Emotion is guidance for thoughts therein.

Clean diet & exercise is fundamental. 

[Someone here]

8 minutes ago, Mandy said:

@Someone here Maybe because you've been brainwashed into believing a narrative that will never tolerate, nor recognize, nor confirm, nor appreciate what it is to be awake. 

 

All that (you know who ) did or does is sharing his insights ..he always  says that you should not believe everything he says as gospel but to verify it in your direct experience.  He does not  gaslight you into falling into brainwashing of his teachings.  You  can find plenty of other forums  where the exact same thing is being said .. just pointing the finger in the opposite direction.

 

 I've always tried to find truth... and seek real answers.. but how do I know that I'm not the one who's been brainwashed? How do you know what's true when seemingly everything and everyone has an agenda?

[Someone here]

11 minutes ago, Phil said:

@Someone here

The belief about a separate self, which is the inverse belief with there being teachers, meaning, purpose, value, worth, philosophy, ideologies about consciousness, awakenings, etc, etc, etc seems to have been reinforced deeply. 

 

Meditation is great for slowing down thought activity, which is all that is (seems) veiling of truth. 

Creating a dreamboard is consciously creating.

Emotion is guidance for thoughts therein.

Clean diet & exercise is fundamental. 

Thanks .I'm going to make some changes into my lifestyle. 

[Mandy]

14 minutes ago, Someone here said:

All that (you know who ) did or does is sharing his insights .

Just have the courage to say it, Voldemort.

 

14 minutes ago, Someone here said:

he always  says that you should not believe everything he says as gospel but to verify it in your direct experience.  He does not  gaslight you into falling into brainwashing of his teachings. 

Just because someone says those things doesn't mean that the culture and the expectation isn't saying something vastly different. "His teachings" speaks volumes about expectations to grasp something already.

 

14 minutes ago, Someone here said:

How do you know what's true when seemingly everything and everyone has an agenda?

 

I don't claim to know what's true. I don't claim to not know what's true. When you don't claim to know or claim to not know what's true then agendas are far more obvious and impossible to fall for.

[Mandy]

If I claim that I know that I don't know what's true, and I claim to know who does know what's true, then I create a teacher. But really I'm the one who is invested in knowing that I don't know, and in order for my teacher to maintain their role, they must continue to know that I don't know and that they do know. They are invested in that. 

 

But what if selves and knowing were just thoughts?  And what if every thought was just "known" here and now as Awareness? 

 

 

[Someone here]

@Mandy  You can rest assured  im not brainwashed by leo . I Question everything. If you take a look at actualized forum ..things have changed a lot ..People are critical of his teachings. 

I will be honest ..In the age of  information.. misinformation and disinformation how do you separate the facts from the fiction?

But even more so..

..adopting the same ideas of your teacher  doesn't mean you're brainwashed..otherwise I could say everyone here are brainwashed by Phil's philosophy. 

 

[Phil]

@Someone here

It’s still going over your head brother. 

[Mandy]

26 minutes ago, Someone here said:

@Mandy  You can rest assured  im not brainwashed by leo . I Question everything. I

"Total confidence that I'm not brainwashed because I question everything. Identify as a open-minded person, I refuse to entertain that I'm anything but. "

 

26 minutes ago, Someone here said:

 

I will be honest ..In the age of  information.. misinformation and disinformation how do you separate the facts from the fiction?

I don't.

26 minutes ago, Someone here said:

 

..adopting the same ideas of your teacher  doesn't mean you're brainwashed..otherwise I could say everyone here are brainwashed by Phil's philosophy. 

 

Friends have influence and are a huge inspiration to other friends. We're all friends, we're all here to inspire and be inspired by one another. What would be more fun, or a more ideal scenario? The difference is when fear or unworthiness are used as tools to force someone to believe or take on something that they find no inspiration in, something that feels horrible to them, in the name of some truth, some acceptance, some belonging, or some quest in which reward lies in the future. Reward lies. 

[Someone here]

I believe in nothing .