Is suicide a normal human activity?

[Jane]

5 hours ago, Reena said:

Technically there should be no hierarchy in love. Love should be unconditional. 

Unconditional love simply implies the unconditional immediate acceptance of everything, unfiltered, as it is, was, and ever will be.

 

And that is already the case. There is no room for any “ought” or “should”

 

There is only the Beloved.  This - Unconditional love.

 

 

[Jane]

9 hours ago, Blessed2 said:

One of the few thoughts about death that are not totally insane is that there is nothing in death that cannot be in life.

 

Like for example, happiness, peace, freedom, release, rest, innocence, forgiveness, atonement, redemption. All of these are fully available in life. There is nothing in death that cannot be in life.

 

Death is never life’s experience anyway. Life is the only experience that can be known.
 

So that might be what Jesus meant by “eternal life”

 

In finite being entities are only a temporal appearances, of what is always and ever the experiencing of this infinite one for eternity.

 

This is simply realised; because you are this. You are the knowing that cannot be known.

 

What thought believes death to be , is not what death is, because death is never an experience, so nothing can be said about it, or known.

 

Death is simply a human concept, and if that means anything at all, it means the cessation of the separate self, the ( I ) or ( me )  thought. 
 

When there is no “thought” of “me” there’s simply just life living itself, all alone, all one, neither alive or dead, and yet seemingly both simultaneously.

[Blessed2]

13 hours ago, Someone here said:

This assumes you know what death is ..which is superfluous because you haven't die yet .

 

What if I know what life is? 🙂

 

What you're saying BTW is that there is something in death that cannot be in life, that is: knowing, certainty, truth.

 

Death-worship.

 

It really is one hell of a pickle.

 

What does the concept of fear of death bring to mind? Is it something you must overcome perhaps? Is it some kind of an ultimate existential pickle? Terror, even? Keeping you awake at night?

 

Edited May 8 by Blessed2

[Blessed2]

5 hours ago, Jane said:

What thought believes death to be , is not what death is, because death is never an experience, so nothing can be said about it, or known.

 

Maybe. It may also be that there just is no such thing as death, and so there isn't really thoughts about death either. But that death is a thought.

 

5 hours ago, Jane said:

Death is simply a human concept, and if that means anything at all, it means the cessation of the separate self, the ( I ) or ( me )  thought. 

 

Not a human concept IMO. Death is a dualistic concept. And human is also a dualistic concept.

 

It might not be a cessation of the I-though either. For example, "when I'll be dead...", "I will die" etc. I think that death is actually a continuation of the separate self of thought.

 

This is what the pointing/teaching/message of reincarnation might point to.

 

Kind of how there might be a glimpse to the true nature of reality / "no-self", but that glimpse is swiftly claimed by the activity of ego and then it seems like the glimpse is something that happened to me, in time. "I woke up".

 

The "me" is not going anywhere in "my death".

 

If death is actually just a thought, does that thought go anywhere even if death seems to happen? How could death make the belief in death disappear?

 

[Phil]

6 hours ago, Jane said:

Has to…

 

Why?

Being is self-aware & infinite. 

[Blessed2]

What makes sense to me is that birth and death really is just a dream, and death has no function in terms of ending or concluding the dream in any way. It's just "more" of the same birth-death dream.

 

In terms of ending the dream / uncovering Truth, the only function death could have is IMO to look at what role it plays in the dream, and contemplating what it might be designed to veil. Sort of like: "If a life of birth and death was the opposite of true life, what would looking at the role of birth & death in this life tell me about true life?"

 

That's a fun contemplative trick that can really open the mind. It can be also be done with money for example. If money was actually the opposite of true abundance, and it's function was actually to perfectly veil truth of infinite abundance, what would looking at money tell you about true abundance?

 

[Jane]

54 minutes ago, Phil said:

Being is self-aware & infinite. 

And is why…as you said; “The ultimate love has to sacrifice/veil itself. “
 

Yes, agreed. I really understand that. Thanks for putting it like that, nicely said. 🙏 ❤️

[Jane]

1 hour ago, Blessed2 said:

What makes sense to me is that birth and death really is just a dream, and death has no function in terms of ending or concluding the dream in any way. It's just "more" of the same birth-death dream.

 

In terms of ending the dream / uncovering Truth, the only function death could have is IMO to look at what role it plays in the dream, and contemplating what it might be designed to veil. Sort of like: "If a life of birth and death was the opposite of true life, what would looking at the role of birth & death in this life tell me about true life?"

 

That's a fun contemplative trick that can really open the mind. It can be also be done with money for example. If money was actually the opposite of true abundance, and it's function was actually to perfectly veil truth of infinite abundance, what would looking at money tell you about true abundance?

 

Thank you. I enjoyed reading that.  Well put. 👍

 

 

—————-

 

True truth is neither subjective or objective;  it is Absolute.

 

As Aristotle's most well-known definition of truth is in the Metaphysics.

 

“To say of what is that it is not, or of what is not that it is, is false, while to say of what is that it is, and of what is not that it is not, is true”.

Edited May 8 by Jane

[Jane]

1 hour ago, Blessed2 said:

Not a human concept IMO. Death is a dualistic concept. And human is also a dualistic concept.

 

It might not be a cessation of the I-though either. For example, "when I'll be dead...", "I will die" etc. I think that death is actually a continuation of the separate self of thought.

 

This is what the pointing/teaching/message of reincarnation might point to.

 

Kind of how there might be a glimpse to the true nature of reality / "no-self", but that glimpse is swiftly claimed by the activity of ego and then it seems like the glimpse is something that happened to me, in time. "I woke up".

 

The "me" is not going anywhere in "my death".

 

If death is actually just a thought, does that thought go anywhere even if death seems to happen? How could death make the belief in death disappear?

 

Human is a concept known, which implies a knower, and this knower /  known expression is dualistic, so yes I agree no concept known is known by the concept known as “human” 

 

I understand that my delivery can be a bit clumsy when attempting to put what I want to say into words.

 

I agree with the rest of your post as well, nicely put. 👍Thanks for your feedback. 

[Phil]

2 hours ago, Jane said:

“To say of what is that it is not, or of what is not that it is, is false, while to say of what is that it is, and of what is not that it is not, is true”.

Absolutely dispels the relative, like Kids In The Hall crushing heads. 🙏🏼

Interpretationless perspective. ♥️

[Someone here]

5 hours ago, Blessed2 said:

What if I know what life is? 🙂

Nobody knows . Don't fool yourself. Appreciate the mystery. 

5 hours ago, Blessed2 said:

What does the concept of fear of death bring to mind? Is it something you must overcome perhaps? Is it some kind of an ultimate existential pickle? Terror, even? Keeping you awake at night?

 

Of course I fear death . Its natural 

[Jane]

56 minutes ago, Someone here said:

Nobody knows . Don't fool yourself. 

You are the nobody knows.

 

 

[Jane]

@Phil “interpretationless”

 

L🤣L

 

 

[Blessed2]

3 hours ago, Someone here said:

Nobody knows . Don't fool yourself. Appreciate the mystery.

 

What I was trying to point out was that if life was known to be unconditional and unlimited as it is, now, already, (all conditions and limits being only ever implied by thought), why would experiencing death be required to know that there is nothing in death that cannot be in life. What can't there be in life? What if life is unlimited?

 

3 hours ago, Someone here said:

Of course I fear death . Its natural 

 

Maybe. Maybe "natural" in the sense that even trees and plants are actually in a constant war with each other. "Natural" in a sense that all bodies eventually become sick and dies. "Natural" as if war and sickness and death were somehow a great creation of love.

 

Or maybe "natural" in a sense that everyone would experience the same emotional response (fear) to the same thoughts about death that you're believing.

 

But "natural" as in that it's reasonable and justified and it's too much to ask to simply be happy? No.

 

Don't settle.

 

 

Fear of death is not "natural".

 

Is it too much to ask to feel good?

 

You think that God wills you to live in fear?

 

God wills you to suffer?

 

Is simple decency too much to ask?

 

 

To this carefully prepared arena, where angry animals seek for prey and mercy cannot enter, the ego comes to save you. ²God made you a body. ³Very well. ⁴Let us accept this and be glad. ⁵As a body, do not let yourself be deprived of what the body offers. ⁶Take the little you can get. ⁷God gave you nothing. ⁸The body is your only savior. ⁹It is the death of God and your salvation. (ACIM, W-72.6:1-9)

 

[Phil]

On 5/8/2024 at 12:33 PM, Someone here said:

Of course I fear death . Its natural 

You love, and reality is. “Fear” & the belief in death tell you so. 

[Someone here]

On 5/8/2024 at 11:45 PM, Blessed2 said:

What I was trying to point out was that if life was known to be unconditional and unlimited as it is, now, already, (all conditions and limits being only ever implied by thought), why would experiencing death be required to know that there is nothing in death that cannot be life 

Simply because death is unknown.  Completely. The body seems to die . What goes on after that ? Nobody knows . Whereas life is literally exactly what it appears as . It is known .Work on your argumentation capacity. 

On 5/8/2024 at 11:45 PM, Blessed2 said:

Fear of death is not "natural".

 

Is it too much to ask to feel good?

 

You think that God wills you to live in fear?

 

God wills you to suffer?

It has nothing to do with god . Fuck God.  All this "Naming " will fly out of the window when I point a gun towards your head .

Edited May 10 by Someone here

[Someone here]

@Phil idk what you are saying. 

[Phil]

16 minutes ago, Someone here said:

@Phil idk what you are saying. 

Idk either. It’s straightforward & self evident feeling wise and is only obscured by thought, thinking, concepts, conceptualizations. Weird as it may sound, without the obscuring what was said is blatantly obvious & there is no other possibility. 

 

If you have any specific questions fire away brother. 

 

I totally agree that fear and the belief in death are not natural at all. It’s conditioning. Fear & death are not actual (as in things, places, etc). 

[Someone here]

@Phil explain it then.  It makes no logical or grammatical sense. 

"You love ,and reality is" ?!

Edited May 10 by Someone here

[Phil]

Just now, Someone here said:

@Phil explain it then.  It makes no logical or grammatical sense. 

"You love ,and reality is" ?!

Help me out. How does that statement not make logical or grammatical sense? In what way, or what doesn’t it jive with?