Jane Posted March 2 Share Posted March 2 (edited) A random thought appeared to me today, about myself, and who this self is exactly. As I continued to think about myself as being a 'something', namely, a human self. I then continued to think more about how this human self never chose to be born. Although I cannot deny my existence, I never actually chose to be the someone I identify with as being this human separate entity. And yet, it appears I who did not choose to be born, was then able to choose to give birth to another being, who will be born having the exact same realisation that I did that it never chose to be born. It seems every human being who never chose to be born seems to be under the illusion that they can then choose to birth another being into existence. So who exactly is choosing to be born when the being who did not choose to be born, somehow was then able to choose to give birth to another being who itself is not choosing to be born just like the mother did not choose to be born either. This shows to me, that any choosing or choice to be born is just an illusion, it's the absolute proof the illusion of choice is a fact that can be known upon reflection, or contemplation into the inquiry of who I am, or who is actually being born. Upon this self realisation it is recognised that there simply is no chooser choosing to be born. And yet, birth does happen, but there is no one who is actually being born because there is never any awareness of one's self being born, nor is there any awareness of there being a choice to be made to be born for the born being, and every one who is born has been born this way. So the idea that we choose to bring more life into the world can't be real. This realisation to me could be what enlightenment means. Sorry if this has been clumsily explained. What are your thoughts about this ? Edited March 2 by Jane Quote Mention Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James123 Posted March 2 Share Posted March 2 3 hours ago, Jane said: A random thought appeared to me today, about myself, and who this self is exactly. As I continued to think about myself as being a 'something', namely, a human self. I then continued to think more about how this human self never chose to be born. Although I cannot deny my existence, I never actually chose to be the someone I identify with as being this human separate entity. And yet, it appears I who did not choose to be born, was then able to choose to give birth to another being, who will be born having the exact same realisation that I did that it never chose to be born. It seems every human being who never chose to be born seems to be under the illusion that they can then choose to birth another being into existence. So who exactly is choosing to be born when the being who did not choose to be born, somehow was then able to choose to give birth to another being who itself is not choosing to be born just like the mother did not choose to be born either. This shows to me, that any choosing or choice to be born is just an illusion, it's the absolute proof the illusion of choice is a fact that can be known upon reflection, or contemplation into the inquiry of who I am, or who is actually being born. Upon this self realisation it is recognised that there simply is no chooser choosing to be born. And yet, birth does happen, but there is no one who is actually being born because there is never any awareness of one's self being born, nor is there any awareness of there being a choice to be made to be born for the born being, and every one who is born has been born this way. So the idea that we choose to bring more life into the world can't be real. This realisation to me could be what enlightenment means. Sorry if this has been clumsily explained. What are your thoughts about this ? Chooser is an illusion as birth. The idea of world is not even real. How do you know you are in the world or breathing? Because you learn from so called human beings? Quote Mention "It is impossible for a man to learn what he thinks he already knows." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jane Posted March 3 Author Share Posted March 3 17 hours ago, James123 said: Chooser is an illusion as birth. The idea of world is not even real. How do you know you are in the world or breathing? Because you learn from so called human beings? Yes , thank you. Does being have to learn to be in order to be? No. It's blindingly obvious that no baby ever learnt to breathe, nor did a baby learn to walk or talk. These functions just happen automatically within the organic process that is this unknowing aliveness. It's the obvious absolute proof that nonduality is the true nature of reality. Quote Mention Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alexander Posted March 3 Share Posted March 3 40 minutes ago, Jane said: It's the obvious absolute proof that nonduality is the true nature of reality. Oh, really?I think that you are delusional. Quote Mention Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jane Posted March 3 Author Share Posted March 3 21 minutes ago, Alexander said: Oh, really?I think that you are delusional. Yes really! Quote Mention Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James123 Posted March 3 Share Posted March 3 1 hour ago, Jane said: No. It's blindingly obvious that no baby ever learnt to breathe, nor did a baby learn to walk or talk. These functions just happen automatically within the organic process that is this unknowing aliveness. So called body does what it needs to, it doesn't need us function properly. İt is already perfect. Quote Mention "It is impossible for a man to learn what he thinks he already knows." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jane Posted March 3 Author Share Posted March 3 5 minutes ago, James123 said: So called body does what it needs to, it doesn't need us function properly. İt is already perfect. Yes indeed, this is already always perfect. Another thought just popped aware: On the human level, it matters not whether one is dying or one is being born, one is always HOME Coming and Going, Appearing and Disappearing are Identical. So even when one is dying, one is not losing anything, or going anywhere, one is always at home. Same goes for when one is living, one is not gaining anything by coming into existence, one is always at home. As both living and dying HERE are the exact same place HOME Quote Mention Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James123 Posted March 3 Share Posted March 3 47 minutes ago, Jane said: Yes indeed, this is already always perfect. Another thought just popped aware: On the human level, it matters not whether one is dying or one is being born, one is always HOME Coming and Going, Appearing and Disappearing are Identical. So even when one is dying, one is not losing anything, or going anywhere, one is always at home. Same goes for when one is living, one is not gaining anything by coming into existence, one is always at home. As both living and dying HERE are the exact same place HOME What is birth or death? Quote Mention "It is impossible for a man to learn what he thinks he already knows." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jane Posted March 3 Author Share Posted March 3 3 minutes ago, James123 said: What is birth or death? An idea? What is an idea, I've no idea. 😉 Quote Mention Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James123 Posted March 3 Share Posted March 3 1 minute ago, Jane said: An idea? What is an idea, I've no idea. 😉 Lol 😂 Quote Mention "It is impossible for a man to learn what he thinks he already knows." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jane Posted March 3 Author Share Posted March 3 @James123 🤣 Quote Mention Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blessed2 Posted March 3 Share Posted March 3 (edited) Something really interesting came to mind. Sometimes I've had thoughts like "I didn't choose to be here. I didn't choose to be born." Also it seems like I don't know why I'm here, or why I chose to be here. So maybe what I mean by that "I" isn't really... I. Obviously that which thinks "I didn't choose to be here & I don't know why I'm here" isn't the one who made it. The knower doesn't seem to know why it's here. That's suspicious. It kind of points to that the knower isn't created by the knower, but is simply just apparent. The knower doesn't know why it exists. The chooser didn't choose to exists. Curious. Edited March 3 by Blessed2 Quote Mention There must be an effortless way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Posted March 3 Share Posted March 3 It doesn’t. The understander can’t understand. Quote Mention YouTube Website Sessions Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jane Posted March 10 Author Share Posted March 10 @Blessed2 The truth can be spoken, but for many or most, it cannot be heard. Quote Mention Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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