How to be free from duality?

[Links]

13 minutes ago, Phil said:

As a first step… I’m just asking if you’re aware of the thoughts which arose and have been shared. This is meant simply, plainly, straightforward. 

 

Thoughts are powerful and take over my cognitive mind, but they just seem to arise out of emptiness or unconsciousness, so I struggle to observe the actual creation of a thought, and its creator. 

 

Also, my thoughts appear in sequence, one by one. "I am" is a thought, but it only occurs by itself, therefore I only exist when having that particular thought. If I'm thinking "this is a nice cup of tea", then "I am" is absent.  The thought "I am thinking about my cup of tea" is misleading because it uses the memory of the thought, not the original thought. 

[Phil]

1 minute ago, Someone here said:

But when you say it's not even a "being"..then what's left ? Them God =nothing at all ?

Let’s not get ahead of ourselves. 🙏🏼 

 

2 minutes ago, Someone here said:

Yes it's not a human Or animal or finite entity/creature ...

I’m glad we can agree on that. Would you also agree that infinite means, implies or simply points to - that which is without limitation, such as a beginning or end?

[Links]

14 minutes ago, Phil said:

What can you share about the awareness which is aware of experience?

 

I can't find a gap between "awareness" and "experience". Or, "awareness" and "objects of awareness". 

 

In that sense I agree with those who say that everything is consciousness. But the opposite is also true. 

[Phil]

7 minutes ago, Links said:

 

Thoughts are powerful and take over my cognitive mind, but they just seem to arise out of emptiness or unconsciousness, so I struggle to observe the actual creation of a thought, and its creator. 

 

Also, my thoughts appear in sequence, one by one. "I am" is a thought, but it only occurs by itself, therefore I only exist when having that particular thought. If I'm thinking "this is a nice cup of tea", then "I am" is absent.  The thought "I am thinking about my cup of tea" is misleading because it uses the memory of the thought, not the original thought. 

Would you agree that experience can be ‘broken down’ most simply as that of thoughts, perception (seeing & hearing etc), and sensation?

[Orb]

4 minutes ago, Links said:

 

I can't find a gap between "awareness" and "experience". Or, "awareness" and "objects of awareness". 

That's because there isn't one. Awareness is Feeling

[Someone here]

12 minutes ago, Phil said:

I’m glad we can agree on that. Would you also agree that infinite means, implies or simply points to - that which is without limitation, such as a beginning or end?

Yeah sure ..

[Links]

11 minutes ago, Phil said:

Would you agree that experience can be ‘broken down’ most simply as that of thoughts, perception (seeing & hearing etc), and sensation?

 

Yes, I wouldn't have an issue with saying these are all specialised forms of sensations either. 

Edited October 26, 2023 by Links

[Phil]

6 minutes ago, Someone here said:

Yeah sure ..

The word God pointing to that which is infinite, and infinite having no beginning and no end - where then would or does infinite end… and you begin? 

 

23 minutes ago, Links said:

 

Thoughts are powerful and take over my cognitive mind, but they just seem to arise out of emptiness or unconsciousness, so I struggle to observe the actual creation of a thought, and its creator. 

 

Also, my thoughts appear in sequence, one by one. "I am" is a thought, but it only occurs by itself, therefore I only exist when having that particular thought. If I'm thinking "this is a nice cup of tea", then "I am" is absent.  The thought "I am thinking about my cup of tea" is misleading because it uses the memory of the thought, not the original thought. 

17 minutes ago, Links said:

 

I can't find a gap between "awareness" and "experience". Or, "awareness" and "objects of awareness". 

 

In that sense I agree with those who say that everything is consciousness. But the opposite is also true. 

In direct experience, are… powerful, my cognitive mind, unconsciousness, an observer, a creation, a creator, ‘my thoughts’, a thinker, an absence of awareness, memory of a thought, an original thought, and a gap found to be: thought, perception, or sensation?

[Isagi Yoichi]

29 minutes ago, Phil said:

What else can you share about awareness? 

idk exactly but when I am aware I am not so reactive, I don't get triggered easily , calmness.

 

I noticed that after I meditated for sometime 

 

 

[Phil]

2 minutes ago, Omar Osama said:

idk exactly but when I am aware I am not so reactive, I don't get triggered easily , calmness.

 

I noticed that after I meditated for sometime 

For sure. Very relatable. 

 

What is found when you try now to go to a past and be aware, or go to a future and be aware? 

[Isagi Yoichi]

1 minute ago, Phil said:

What is found when you try now to go to a past and be aware, or go to a future and be aware? 

 

thoughts i think 

 

 

 

[Phil]

@Omar Osama

Do you find that it is not possible to go to a past or future (and be aware in a past or future)? 

[Alexander]

Just now, Phil said:

@Omar Osama

Do you find that it is not possible to go to a past or future (and be aware in a past or future)? 

Yeah I do so what's the point?

[Isagi Yoichi]

Just now, Phil said:

Do you find that it is not possible to go to a past or future (and be aware in a past or future)? 

 

sure , idk anything more that i can share about awareness now 

[Someone here]

8 minutes ago, Phil said:

The word God pointing to that which is infinite, and infinite having no beginning and no end - where then would or does infinite end… and you begin? 

Brilliant! 

Of course it doesn't. It's a  Simple  mathematical  thought experiment. 100%clear.

I"m God 😀.

But..notice that God is Cosplaying as a human ..I appear  limited..I have a finite body..finite abilities (can't fly etc). And so on ..so I'm God in essence because God is just the very substratum of existence....however through the sphere of the lens I appear as a finite separate person separate from the universe and its creator .

[Alexander]

Just now, Someone here said:

Brilliant! 

Of course it doesn't. It's a  Simple  mathematical  thought experiment. 100%clear.

I"m God 😀.

But..notice that God is Cosplaying as a human ..I appear  limited..I have a finite body..finite abilities (can't fly etc). And so on ..so I'm God in essence because God is just the very substratum of existence....however through the sphere of the lens I appear as a finite separate person separate from the universe and its creator .

Does it lens sphere sound exactly as solipsism?

[Someone here]

9 minutes ago, Alexander said:

Does it lens sphere sound exactly as solipsism?

No .I recall Phil  saying that there is no limits as to how many finite minds are there .each pov is a lens of its own.

Idk really ...let him answer that for you .

[Links]

12 minutes ago, Phil said:

In direct experience, are… powerful, my cognitive mind, unconsciousness, an observer, a creation, a creator, ‘my thoughts’, a thinker, an absence of awareness, memory of a thought, an original thought, and a gap found to be: thought, perception, or sensation?

 

Powerful is a adjective to describe the quality of a thought. 

Some of these are individual thoughts, like 'the original thought'. 

Some are thoughts about thoughts, like 'my cognitive mind' or 'my thoughts' ie modelling a collection of thoughts and their interactions. 

'Observer' and 'thinker' are thoughts about an imaginary point of reference, so also a thought about thought. 

 

In short,all are thoughts. But some thoughts are associated with an "inwards" pointing attention, like the Thinker, the Observer, Me, I am. 

Thoughts about sense perceptions eg sights have an "outwards" pointing attention, like "that's a  tree over there". 

[Phil]

1 hour ago, Alexander said:

what's the point?

1 hour ago, Omar Osama said:

sure

4 hours ago, Omar Osama said:

 

How can someone overcome the duality perspective?

how to stop believing that there is a god and there is also me?

Is it clearer that there is tension, contraction and or pressure felt when those thoughts ^ arise…

And relief is felt when direct experience is acknowledged - when that these are thoughts is acknowledged?

 

In ‘listening’ to that feeling of relief, and in acknowledging the actuality of direct experience, including that you can not actually be in or go to a future… 

Is it now ‘seen’ that there is no need whatsoever to overcome duality, or to stop believing (in anything at all)?

That there is only to notice that there is only the thought that this is needed or the way…?

 

Do you also see that the recognition of thoughts, the acknowledgment of the experience of thoughts… is from the perspective of awareness… which is aware of, the thoughts? 

 

 Awareness (relief 🙂) sought, is in fact already present, and therein can not be found in a future. Yes?

 

1 hour ago, Omar Osama said:

idk exactly but when I am aware I am not so reactive, I don't get triggered easily , calmness.

I noticed that after I meditated for sometime 

Allow self-love; self-empathy & self-compassion. It is ok if there is a reactive experience! It’s ok! It’s indicative of the ‘situation’, it’s not anyone’s fault! 

 

Something else which can rightfully be said about awareness is that awareness is synonymous with happiness. Awareness, happiness, is like the sun. As we explore the nature of self, and question thoughts… it is as if clouds which have been obscuring the sun are parted, cleared, dispelled… and a little bit of the sunshine (relief, happiness) shines through. Then it seems as if there are more & more patches of clear blue sky, and inevitably it is realized the clouds are coming & going, while the sun is not, and never did, and never could and thus never will. 

 

1 hour ago, Someone here said:

Brilliant! 

Of course it doesn't. It's a  Simple  mathematical  thought experiment. 100%clear.

I"m God 😀.

But..notice that God is Cosplaying as a human ..I appear  limited..I have a finite body..finite abilities (can't fly etc). And so on ..so I'm God in essence because God is just the very substratum of existence....however through the sphere of the lens I appear as a finite separate person separate from the universe and its creator .

Awesome, truly, but also, slow down brother… infinite can not know finite. 

 

59 minutes ago, Alexander said:

Does it lens sphere sound exactly as solipsism?

49 minutes ago, Someone here said:

No .I recall Phil  saying that there is no limits as to how many finite minds are there .each pov is a lens of its own.

Idk really ...let him answer that for you .

Solipsism is an ism. Feel the relief in acknowledging this is the activity of thinking in accordance with direct experience. Notice, in accordance with direct experience, ‘knowing’ is the thought, ‘knowing’. ‘Knowing’ is not found in perception or sensation. Mistaking this is what delusion is. The knowing is on behalf of a separate self of thoughts, the knower, or, subject of “subjective experience”. Rather than believe thoughts or conjecture and attempt to make delusion fit, acknowledge the actuality of direct experience and ‘listen to feeling’ therein. 

 

Truth is (and this is a major concession) felt - not thunk. Feeling - would be slightly less of a concession. The claim that solipsism is true, truth, or absolute, is nothing more than an egocentric separate-self-aggrandizing purporting. As solipsism is the activity of thought, believing and claiming it’s true, the truth, or absolute, is exactly the same as claiming any religion or cult doctrine is true, the truth, or absolute. 

 

40 minutes ago, Links said:

 

Powerful is a adjective to describe the quality of a thought. 

Some of these are individual thoughts, like 'the original thought'. 

Some are thoughts about thoughts, like 'my cognitive mind' or 'my thoughts' ie modelling a collection of thoughts and their interactions. 

'Observer' and 'thinker' are thoughts about an imaginary point of reference, so also a thought about thought. 

 

In short,all are thoughts. But some thoughts are associated with an "inwards" pointing attention, like the Thinker, the Observer, Me, I am. 

Thoughts about sense perceptions eg sights have an "outwards" pointing attention, like "that's a  tree over there". 

Are inside & outside experienced as thoughts about perception and or sensation, or found in perception and or sensation? 

 

[Isagi Yoichi]

34 minutes ago, Phil said:

 Awareness (relief 🙂) sought, is in fact already present, and therein can not be found in a future. Yes?

 

yes 

 

so what is nonduality?