Are you full of BS?

[Alexander]

I am and I think everyone is.Spirituality for me is full of it.I think 2 spheres model is utter nonsense.It feels to me as solipsism re-invented.

[Joseph Maynor]

There are people who are full of shit but don't realize it.  Then they're people who are full of shit and realize it.  I'm more worried about the latter group of people.  That's mental illness, but it's also fixable to an extent.  What I've found is it takes much less energy to just be honest with enough social persona to not unreasonably goose others with your own personal conduct.  80% authenticity, 20% reasonable social persona.

Edited October 21, 2023 by Joseph Maynor

[James123]

1 hour ago, Alexander said:

I am and I think everyone is.Spirituality for me is full of it.I think 2 spheres model is utter nonsense.It feels to me as solipsism re-invented.

Yes I am. But I am nonsense too as spirituality. 

[Phil]

@Alexander

Check for yourself. 🤍

If you have any questions feel free. Let’s create a discussion, really get down to it.

 

Be open minded, curious & humble. Question what a thinker & an everyone is in accordance with direct experience.

Spirituality’s about what’s absolutely true in spite of any beliefs. Question the most fundamental assumptions.

Empty the cup. Let isms go.

If a tree falls in the woods. 

 

If you like, for the fun of it, I can write a 4 digit number down on a newspaper and take a picture. Tell me the number today. I’ll show you the photo tomorrow.

 

[MetaSage]

Pretty much, yeah.

[Orb]

On 10/21/2023 at 1:43 PM, Alexander said:

I am and I think everyone is.Spirituality for me is full of it.I think 2 spheres model is utter nonsense.It feels to me as solipsism re-invented.

Cynical/pessimistic thoughts are very deceptive because they're like the "controlled opposition" of thought attachment. 

 

Thoughts about the spheres being nonsense or about how the stuff shared on this forum is nonsense are also just thoughts too, completely groundless. 

 

It really seems like the supposed cynic is right because he's a rebel and doesn't fall for the spiritual airy fairy nonsense, until it's seen that the cynical thoughts are also...thoughts. 

 

It's like if the matrix created an anti-matrix within it. 

[Mandy]

Insights are a bunch of bullshit. Symbolism is a bunch of bullshit. Teaching/Learning is a bunch of bullshit. Synchronicity is a bunch of bullshit. 

 

Why not? You infer in the use of the word bullshit that it's a waste, that it has no value. Like there's something else outside that IS worth your time and attention. 🙂That's a bunch of bullshit.

[Phil]

@Orb

Like the Reality lying just behind the illusory nature of the one who’s disillusioned?  Like Cypher in The Matrix? 

[Orb]

1 hour ago, Phil said:

@Orb

Like the Reality lying just behind the illusory nature of the one who’s disillusioned?  Like Cypher in The Matrix? 

Like a reverse Cypher, where instead he was like this it's all the matrix none of its real! Screw this! Not recognizing that those thoughts are also the matrix too. 

 

Cynicism, doubting, this kinda attitude feels good compared to blindly believing something so there's relief in that sense, but it still doesn't feel good. It's kinda like right before putting the self story down, I get the sense that if one more step was taken forward there would be relief just by acknowledging that no specific view of things is actually true when it comes to self realization. But some thoughts do resonate!

 

I've gone through it here too, where I'm like screw everyone screw abraham hicks, and I would dig my feet further into believing I had the right view on things not realizing the "it's all bullshit" mindset is also the matrix. 

Edited October 24, 2023 by Orb

[Orb]

@Phil another analogy came: its like instead of taking the redpill, i just got walked around the streets saying how this is all bullshit its all the matrix! 

[Alexander]

[Orb]

2 minutes ago, Alexander said:

We're talking about the movie

[Phil]

@Orb

I wonder if we’re saying the same thing. 

 

If there is / was awakening… it is not a separate self which awakens. Awakening is precisely that there is no separation and are no separate selves. 

(As far as what one is not / what there isn’t / what is not actual, not per say as far as what one is / the true nature ‘ essence of being).

 

Nonetheless, in accordance with thoughts and not per se direct experience, it could seem as if there is - a separate self which awakened or is awake. 

Such as ‘a teacher’, or ‘leader’ of a cult / religion. Someone who has, knows or understands awakening… which ‘others’ need to hear, know or understand so they can awaken too. 

 

As this is overlooked the discord is felt, and there could be an experinece of bitterness, animosity, resentment, etc…

and it would not be noticed that activity of thoughts is not actually a separate self, who awakened.

 

The ‘separate self’ that ‘is awake’ would ‘be resentful, bitter, etc’.

But what would be overlooked, again, is that that self doesn’t exist already. 

There would really only be a perpetuation of bitterness, resentment, etc.

Like ‘I’m angry’ vs ‘anger is experienced’. 

 

Such a ‘teacher’ which ‘is awake’ / ‘awakened’ / ‘has awakenings’ could mislead ‘themself’ (as “everyone else”) in this way, ‘leading’ ‘them’ to the very same dissapointment, bitterness, animosity, anger, jealousy, dissapointment, etc. 

 

And this would all be aversion, not awakening, and the ‘teacher’ would actually be ‘teaching’ - aversion… out of pure ignorance. 

 

In short the bitterness would be believing ‘I woke up’ / ‘I’m awake’… seemingly reinforced by ‘a teacher’ claiming ‘I woke up’ / ‘I’m awake’ / ‘my awakenings’. 

 

The Truth would simply be that isn’t awakening, and that is why there is the bitterness etc. 

 

The ‘one who is bitter’ is the separate self of thoughts. Which are felt - and this is overlooked, via believing, the thoughts, about one being, a separate & ‘awakened’ self. 

 

A ‘teacher’ as it were, having such an experience, would be overlooking delusion, via having suppressed emotion, and suppressing & ignoring the suffering felt.

 

A conceptual awakening or awakenings on behalf of a separate self is not awakening at all, and the purporting therein amounts to no more than misleading yourself so to speak, and yourself as others too if you will.

 

This would be communicated by ‘the teacher’ as, solipsism.

 

The purported awakening is the activity fo thought, and is based on a “separate self which knows and understands” (thoughts)… overlooking the duality of a self which knows and understands (infinite can not know finite), is the activity of thought (appearance)… the same as any other illusory duality.

 

Such a ‘teacher’ might seemingly be appalled and outraged (experiencing suppressed emotion from aversion) by the notion there aren’t separate selves, such as ‘the teacher’, and the truth is as always, unconditional love. 

 

Isolating measures would have to be taken in terms of who’s toxic, who’s experiencing self-deception, who’s deluded, who’s not ‘fully awake’ / has a ‘half baked enlightenment’, etc, etc, etc, etc, etc… all manors of justifications & rationalizations… for the separate self, ‘the teacher’. 

 

The underlying would be along the lines of a defensive & protective vanity of mind (what the separate self knows & understands) & the suppressed emotion would be fear ( of ‘losing my mind’). The separate self which ‘has a mind’, would conceptualize the fear - vs fully feeling it and therein dissolving it, and therein dissolving the ‘separate self’. 

 

 

@Alexander

What might one ‘do’ in such a situation? (To resolve the bitterness, cycisim, animosity, etc)

 

What might ‘a student’ of such ‘a teacher’ do? 

[Orb]

@Phil It resonates, its defensiveness masked as cynicism or doubt.

[Phil]

On 10/21/2023 at 1:43 PM, Alexander said:

I am and I think everyone is.Spirituality for me is full of it.I think 2 spheres model is utter nonsense.It feels to me as solipsism re-invented.

In regard to the ever so subtle misnomer of solipsism... and maybe even vanity of mind and the relationship between fear, the separate self of thought, and knowing. 🙏🏼♥️

[Joseph Maynor]

This is just something I wrote, please don't get triggered by it.  I felt like I needed to answer OP's question directly if I can.  

I find paradoxically the best way to remain spiritual is to stay away from spirituality.  It's very paradoxical this way.  I think it has to do with formation of spiritual ego which undermines happiness.  This is no good for you or for others really.  It can become addicting but it's a form of Hell.  It turns into a form of Hell or war just like any other system of egos jockeying for survival of their identities.  This is very advanced though -- leaving spirituality as a concept and form of social glue (a reason to relate with others) to have it grow stronger inside you.  This can only happen when spirituality is in your very bones.  It's there.  It's like your hand, it's there whether you forget about it or not.  When you're still learning, you have to engage with spirituality because you can't learn it all by yourself.  You have to inspect others and outside to come back around to finding your true inside.  But just putting this into words ain't quite it.  And if I clung to this as the answer that I endorse and shove down other people's throats, that's where spiritual ego starts to take hold.  There's no need for me to do that.  And in fact doing that takes me away from my spirituality.  Ego takes you away from spirituality unless you have a marriage between healthy ego and spirituality.  Heaven is when you're aligned with spirituality.  Hell is when ego has corrupted reality so that happiness left the scene.  And life is a working with between Heaven and Hell too.  You gotta be conformable with both.  But learning how to have more Heaven and less Hell is also a worthy goal for anyone especially someone who knows exactly what they should be doing that would benefit themselves and others tangibly.  I try to work towards something in everything I do.  I see time and energy as scarce.  On top of that I have to safeguard my inner ambiance to make sure I got my mind right so I can perform my life well.  I have to be at peace and happy most of the time.  And if I'm not happy I need to be trying to get happy, because nobody performs well when they're mentally or emotionally disturbed or distracted.

Edited November 1, 2023 by Joseph Maynor