Difficulty Letting go of Thoughts

[Orb]

11 minutes ago, Phil said:

Without expectations meditation’s deeply peaceful and relaxing. 

I keep expecting to feel happiness without sadness, pleasure without pain. 

 

It's unrealistic and unhelpful. 

 

Impermanence is truth, I have never experienced any emotion/texture of sensation that lasts forever. 

 

That's why I don't resonate with the idea of pure positive thought all the time, it's unnatural. I've never seen any natural process in reality that lasts forever, eventually the textures of sensation shift and express themselves in a new way, this is beautiful, this is truth. 

 

Imagine every day expecting that the sun will come up and stay there forever and then when the sun begins to set there's so much discord and resistance because the expectation is being shattered. But then there's a belief that if I try hard enough eventually the sun will come up tomorrow and stay there.

Edited September 12, 2023 by Orb

[Mandy]

 

It's so easy to do anything, paint a house, build a business, learn any skill, get in shape, whatever, it's a cinch. Seems hard, you stay focused. There's steps to take. It hit me at some point that it was so comparatively easy and satisfying to do well at anything except for parenting, because I could instantly tell from the suffering that it wasn't really a job that could be done like I was doing the rest of the jobs. Seemed like all I got was overwhelm, frustration, isolation and doubt and disappointment  in my abilities and the "task" set before me. But when I just observed my kids, just loved them, just appreciated them? Pure magic. 

 

You're never gonna be somebody someday. You can be whatever you want to be, but you're never gonna be a somebody who is enlightened. No one is. 

 

Why would you want to hear this news? I'd give up too. Go pursue whatever you want. It ain't like that. 

[Orb]

@Mandy I'm not concerned with being an enlightened self, im just concerned with the "problem" of suffering to go away once and for all. 

 

The fetter is unrealistic expectations. Like what I said in response to Phil, the sun comes up and comes down, and I've been wanting the sun to come up and stay there forever, which is silly. 

 

Impermanence is something we hear but never seriously accept, we push it under the rug. 

 

I'm not jumping with joy or anything like that, I'm just a human, an ordinary dude who's tired and has a full belly, why can't I be happy with that right now? Why do I need to do some practice or absorb more knowledge so I can be satisfied in the future?

 

This is the "bind" I am in, the bind we all are in. It's an impulse to resist this moment, absorb knowledge, and use that knowledge as a "ground" for the ego to rest on.

 

Imo, enlightenment is worth more than any material in the whole world. It means more to me than following my passion or purpose or creating stuff.

Edited September 12, 2023 by Orb

[Mandy]

@Orb "Once and for all" is not nonresistance to the moment. No one is saying not to enjoy the sunsets and sunrises and not to appreciate the dark for rest. No one is saying you have to do anything. Yes, be happy now. Who is we? 

 

 

[Orb]

14 minutes ago, Mandy said:

@Orb "Once and for all" is not nonresistance to the moment. No one is saying not to enjoy the sunsets and sunrises and not to appreciate the dark for rest. No one is saying you have to do anything. Yes, be happy now. Who is we? 

 

 

You know, I read everything shared here on this forum, and then I sit on my cushion and all that's there is Sensation and random thoughts arising like a radio switching onto different stations. 

 

I hear stuff like "surrender to the moment, there's nothing other than this, I am the great feeling I'm searching for." 

 

Then I sit on my cushion and there's thought and sensation. 

Edited September 12, 2023 by Orb

[Phil]

25 minutes ago, Orb said:

I keep expecting to feel happiness without sadness, pleasure without pain. 

That’s already the case. The one or the otherness is the activity of thinking or not. That’s the veiling. Subjects & objects. Happiness is already present and is uncovered. Not a result of anything. Not a subject or object. 

25 minutes ago, Orb said:

 

It's unrealistic and unhelpful. 

Seemed insightful actually. Noticing duality. Expecting what already is is sort of unhelpful as far as the expectation being meetable. 

 

25 minutes ago, Orb said:

 

Impermanence is truth, I have never experienced any emotion/texture of sensation that lasts forever. 

 

That's why I don't resonate with the idea of pure positive thought all the time,

Yeah. I don’t either. I keep saying now and you keep saying all the time. Inspect time. What is it without thoughts about time?

 

25 minutes ago, Orb said:

it's unnatural.

Assuming happiness isn’t already the case and looking for it without considering it isn’t a thing, object, findable, obtainable, achievable, create-able… of course feels unnatural to happiness. It’s like looking for yourself and actually expecting to find something, overlooking you’re looking. 

 

25 minutes ago, Orb said:

I've never seen any natural process in reality that lasts forever, eventually the textures of sensation shift and express themselves in a new way, this is beautiful, this is truth. 

Apparently. 🤍

 

25 minutes ago, Orb said:

 

Imagine every day expecting that the sun will come up and stay there forever and then when the sun begins to set there's so much discord and resistance because the expectation is being shattered. But then there's a belief that if I try hard enough eventually the sun will come up tomorrow and stay there.

Yeah. Meanwhile the sun isn’t coming up, the earth is orbiting. It just seems like it. Similar to thoughts obscuring happiness. Thoughts about someone else not trying hard enough. 

[Orb]

@Phil I've been aware that time doesn't exist since I was 16. Ever since my first lsd trips and listening to the hippie youtubers saying time is an illusion. Ah I fell for it again! 

 

Although it's a tough thought/belief to let go of completely. I wouldn't know what to inspect. It's an interesting thing to look into.

 

Notions of space, distance, an observer or aware witness have fallen away. 

 

It seems notions of time are the other side of the coin of perception beliefs.

Edited September 12, 2023 by Orb

[Mandy]

50 minutes ago, Orb said:

You know, I read everything shared here on this forum, and then I sit on my cushion and all that's there is Sensation and random thoughts arising like a radio switching onto different stations. 

 

I hear stuff like "surrender to the moment, there's nothing other than this, I am the great feeling I'm searching for." 

 

Then I sit on my cushion and there's thought and sensation. 

Is there the guidance of impatience? 

 

It's like waiting for dust particles to settle in a sunbeam after having dusted and danced around the room. 

 

First thought, " oh, heard a squirrel" This thought is just a dust particle. 

 

Second thought "GODDAMN it, that was a thought! I can't meditate!" This thought is getting up and flailing around your feather duster.

 

Let the first thoughts be inconsequential as squirrels or dust particles. And let the second thoughts be squirrels and dust particles as well. Then you actually allow momentum to let thought slow down because you aren't getting back up and smashing the dust in the air with the feather duster cause you're mad at yourself and trying to beat the dust into submission. 

 

This is really all very funny. 

 

33 minutes ago, Orb said:

@Phil I've been aware that time doesn't exist since I was 16. Ever since my first lsd trips and listening to the hippie youtubers saying time is an illusion. Ah I fell for it again! 

This is really very funny. You caught it though! Do you see how hysterical it is?! THAT is catching yourself ready to get up to go beat dust particles into submission. That is noticing how futile that is.  "I've been aware that time doesn't exist since I was 16" is just a dust particle and nothing need be done about it, and instantly it's hilarious. "I"- dust, "I already know that"-dust, dust, dust. 

[Orb]

@Mandy @Phil

 

I sat down to inquire into the nature of time and meditate. Thoughts start off saying "okay does sensation move into a past or future?" "What is Now?".

 

Then without even noticing it the thought shifts into a thought about whey protein and how I can buy some on Friday when I get paid at gnc and how the prices have gone up so it might cost 60 bucks but still it's exciting, and how I can increase my protein intake everyday and allow my muscles to grow as I workout every morning. 

 

Then it turns into a music melody or orchestra.

 

You see?! Thats the kind of shit I'm talking about, it pisses me off! 

 

That is meditation in a nutshell every f-ing morning! 😡

Edited September 13, 2023 by Orb

[Mandy]

25 minutes ago, Orb said:

Then without even noticing it the thought shifts into a thought about whey protein and how I can buy some on Friday when I get paid at gnc and how the prices have gone up so it might cost 60 bucks but still it's exciting, and how I can increase my protein intake everyday and allow my muscles to grow as I workout every morning. 

Dust

 

Dust settling in a beautiful beam of sunlight

 

Nothing needs be done

 

Deep relaxing belly breath

 

25 minutes ago, Orb said:

You see?! Thats the kind of shit I'm talking about, it pisses me off! 

 

That is meditation in a nutshell every f-ing morning! 😡

FUCK THIS DUST!!! GONNA BEAT THE MOTHERFUCKING DUST INTO SUBMISSION WITH MY GAS POWERED FEATHER DUSTER! STAND BACK MOTHER FUCKERS! 

 

 

[Loop]

You know you feel it in your heart, it isn’t as it seems.

 

[Orb]

@Mandy you make cleaning dust sound bad ass.

 

@Loop I certainly feel it 🙂

[Loop]

@Orb

 

That’s all you need brother. The curiosity of an open heart.

It is all the Meditation, wether the deepest sorrow is felt, or the deepest joy.

 

[Mandy]

12 minutes ago, Orb said:

@Mandy you make cleaning dust sound bad ass.

 

🤦‍♀️😂

You don't need to clean the dust. Just allow it to settle. 

[Phil]

12 hours ago, Orb said:

@Mandy @Phil

 

I sat down to inquire into the nature of time and meditate. Thoughts start off saying "okay does sensation move into a past or future?" "What is Now?".

 

Then without even noticing it the thought shifts into a thought about whey protein and how I can buy some on Friday when I get paid at gnc and how the prices have gone up so it might cost 60 bucks but still it's exciting, and how I can increase my protein intake everyday and allow my muscles to grow as I workout every morning. 

 

Then it turns into a music melody or orchestra.

 

You see?! Thats the kind of shit I'm talking about, it pisses me off! 

 

That is meditation in a nutshell every f-ing morning! 😡

Go about it however you like of course, but as far as what’s being suggested, with respect to quieting the mind that is not what’s being suggested. That sounds like a mix of meditation and contemplating (time).

 

https://www.actualityofbeing.com/basic-meditation-posture-balance-relaxation-body-scan

 

With meditation, when those thoughts arise, there is no problem - there is an experience of thoughts, even if the thoughts are about how there’s a problem, attention is just gently returned to feeling breathing in the stomach. When thoughts arise about wether meditation is being done right or not, wether meditation works or not, wether there is time or not, wether this will result in the end of suffering and or enlightenment etc arise… it’s noticed attention is on thoughts and attention is gently returned to feeling breathing in the stomach. 

 

Questioning time is different in that it’s not returning attention to feeling breathing in the stomach. It’s quite opposite really in that it’s the activity of thought. An important distinction might be that there is nothing wrong with either. When judgmental thoughts arise with respect to meditation, attention is returned to feeling breathing in the stomach. If it’s difficult or uncomfortable at all, expressing what’s arising via a journal is suggested. Using the emotional scale alongside journaling is also suggested. None of what is suggested here is suggested at the exclusion of anything else conducive to well being such as changes in diet, exercise, therapy, etc, etc. 

 

Maybe above all else, I would be aware of attitude. Similar or even the same as being aware of the discord & alignment of thoughts.  Not just towards these topics but generally, across the board. 

 

"The longer I live, the more I realize the impact of attitude on life.  Attitude, to me, is more important than facts.  It is more important than the past, than education, than money, than circumstances, than failures, than successes, than what other people think, say or do.  It is more important than appearance, giftedness or skill.  It will make or break a company... a church... a home.  The remarkable thing is we have a choice every day regarding the attitude we embrace for that day.  We cannot change our past... we cannot change the fact that people will act in a certain way.  We cannot change the inevitable.  The only thing we can do is play the one string we have, and that is our attitude... I am convinced that life is 10% what happens to me and 90% how I react to it.

And so it is with you... we are in charge of our Attitudes”

- Charles Swindoll

 

[Orb]

@Loop ♾️🙏 yessir!

 

@Phil Meditation is essentially just feeling! Feelings the boss. Sometimes it's forgotten lol

[Orb]

@Phil at work I'm always daydreaming. It's hard to stay in feeling at work, random thoughts are arising all the time. Do you have no thoughts when you're out and about during the day?

[Devin]

[Phil]

1 hour ago, Orb said:

@Phil at work I'm always daydreaming. It's hard to stay in feeling at work, random thoughts are arising all the time. Do you have no thoughts when you're out and about during the day?

No, I just questioned thoughts curiously. Like who is this thought actually about? Is ‘always’ true or not / is there any experience of not now? WHat is time actually?

Never made any attempts whatsoever in any way to “stop thoughts” or “stay in feeling”.

Simply returned attention to feeling breathing in the stomach. 

[Orb]

@Phil okay, I like that approach better.