Orb Posted September 8, 2023 Share Posted September 8, 2023 Ive been meditating in the morning for a while and honestly it isn't always pleasant, in fact it only shows how much thought identification is still there. If there's a dialogue thought and I let that go, then it morphs into a song thought, if that's let go it morphs into some kind of thought about recognizing that its a thought and to let it go, then it morphs into a thought about focusing on breathing, then it morphs into a thought about focusing on I am or feeling, then it morphs into a song, and so on. It is annoying as hell! This doesn't sound like an easy feat, sounds like this would take years to master, I mean how can this be resolved quickly? Impossible. I dont think you have to be thoughtless, this seems like a misunderstanding or something. How can thoughts be let go if no ones even thinking them? If thoughts arise on their own and leave on their own, how can a thought let go of another thought? Quote Mention "Mediocrity is gone. Mind is clear of limitation. I seek no state of enlightenment. Neither do I remain where no enlightenment exists. Since I linger in neither condition, eyes cannot see me. If hundreds of birds strew my path with flowers, such praise would be meaningless." - A Comment on the 8th Ox Herding Picture Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loop Posted September 8, 2023 Share Posted September 8, 2023 (edited) 36 minutes ago, Orb said: how can a thought let go of another thought? That would be the content of thought, not the thought. 36 minutes ago, Orb said: I dont think you have to be thoughtless You don’t have to be thoughtless, you can’t be, but there is a compulsion to think because there is thought that we will get something out of thought, as there is the thought of a self doing something in a world, which is also, thought. Unwinding that compulsion by dispelling self-referential mind-body connections is what actually allows the compulsion to chronically think all the time to wane away. Kinda looks like this: Meditation creates the space for what is not true to fall away, & contemplation allows the arising of what is. Meditation, intuition, & feeling leads, but contemplation can follow in such a way that uncovers the compulsions & allows the expression of the stuck energy. Which is really what the compulsion was about. Edited September 8, 2023 by Loop Quote Mention Ten thousand tears, One Belly Laugh. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Posted September 8, 2023 Share Posted September 8, 2023 3 hours ago, Orb said: Ive been meditating in the morning for a while and honestly it isn't always pleasant, in fact it only shows how much thought identification is still there. Acknowledge frustration (vs believing a sep self ref thought). 3 hours ago, Orb said: If there's a dialogue thought and I let that go, then it morphs into a song thought, if that's let go it morphs into some kind of thought about recognizing that its a thought and to let it go, then it morphs into a thought about focusing on breathing, then it morphs into a thought about focusing on I am or feeling, then it morphs into a song, and so on. Acknowledge pessimism (vs believing a sep self ref thought). Labelling thoughts is the “wrong” direction in regard to quieting the mind / awakening / allowing the true nature. It’s a reinforcing of believing thoughts & the separate self (outward orientation) vs feeling breathing in the stomach (inward orientation). 3 hours ago, Orb said: It is annoying as hell! Acknowledge irritation (vs believing a sep self ref thought). 3 hours ago, Orb said: This doesn't sound like an easy feat, sounds like this would take years to master, I mean how can this be resolved quickly? Impossible. Acknowledge impatience (vs believing a sep self ref thought). There’s no sep self which masters anything. 3 hours ago, Orb said: I dont think you have to be thoughtless, this seems like a misunderstanding or something. How can thoughts be let go if no ones even thinking them? If thoughts arise on their own and leave on their own, how can a thought let go of another thought? The misunderstanding is that there is a you, a sep self, a “thinker”. This is the yin to the yang of not acknowledging emotions. What’s important to sep self of thought is getting some thing (understanding). Doesn’t work that way though. When emotion is disregarded or unacknowledged, the mind so to speak ruminates, trying to figure out and solve... to feel better. The entirety of experience is then through that lens. All relationships, endeavors, etc, all sep self serving. But when it’s allowed to be simple & easy… returning attention to feeling breathing in the stomach & acknowledging emotions / expressing - it is. Experience is already an expression of you (alignment with / as What Is). It’s not a doing or an accomplishment or achievement, it’s just ‘getting out of your own way’. 🤍 Quote Mention YouTube Website Sessions Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orb Posted September 9, 2023 Author Share Posted September 9, 2023 @Loop I like what you said about the compulsion to think because we think we'll get something out of thought. Great insight! A couple days ago the unknowingness really hit me and I was like 🥹🥹🥹. @Phil wow that really clicked, so when emotion isn't acknowledged, thought goes into screen saver mode. That inspires a new thread coming up! Quote Mention "Mediocrity is gone. Mind is clear of limitation. I seek no state of enlightenment. Neither do I remain where no enlightenment exists. Since I linger in neither condition, eyes cannot see me. If hundreds of birds strew my path with flowers, such praise would be meaningless." - A Comment on the 8th Ox Herding Picture Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James123 Posted September 9, 2023 Share Posted September 9, 2023 16 hours ago, Orb said: @Loop I like what you said about the compulsion to think because we think we'll get something out of thought. Great insight! A couple days ago the unknowingness really hit me and I was like 🥹🥹🥹. @Phil wow that really clicked, so when emotion isn't acknowledged, thought goes into screen saver mode. That inspires a new thread coming up! When you realize thoughts specially negative thoughts are your enemy/evil, and let them go but really hard core let them go, they won't come back. Believe me. Quote Mention "It is impossible for a man to learn what he thinks he already knows." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loop Posted September 10, 2023 Share Posted September 10, 2023 On 9/8/2023 at 10:39 PM, Orb said: I like what you said about the compulsion to think because we think we'll get something out of thought. Great insight! A couple days ago the unknowingness really hit me and I was like 🥹🥹🥹. Awesome! 🥹 Right now I’m teary eyed all day. Quote Mention Ten thousand tears, One Belly Laugh. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orb Posted September 11, 2023 Author Share Posted September 11, 2023 Just meditated for nearly 40 minutes. It's difficult to focus on anything other than thoughts unless there's people or visual stimuli. For example I heard my moms footsteps during meditation and there was complete alertness and full attention on that. But then when I'm by myself the thought stories are so loud and entertaining. Feels like daydreaming more than meditating. Maybe boredom is experienced and that leads to thought activity? Quote Mention "Mediocrity is gone. Mind is clear of limitation. I seek no state of enlightenment. Neither do I remain where no enlightenment exists. Since I linger in neither condition, eyes cannot see me. If hundreds of birds strew my path with flowers, such praise would be meaningless." - A Comment on the 8th Ox Herding Picture Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James123 Posted September 11, 2023 Share Posted September 11, 2023 1 hour ago, Orb said: Just meditated for nearly 40 minutes. It's difficult to focus on anything other than thoughts unless there's people or visual stimuli. For example I heard my moms footsteps during meditation and there was complete alertness and full attention on that. But then when I'm by myself the thought stories are so loud and entertaining. Feels like daydreaming more than meditating. Maybe boredom is experienced and that leads to thought activity? Thoughts are always active, the important thing is that you are aware of the thoughts are not you and nothing to do with you, it is the way that they are. Thoughts are not YOU. Doesn't come from you. Quote Mention "It is impossible for a man to learn what he thinks he already knows." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orb Posted September 11, 2023 Author Share Posted September 11, 2023 @James123 huh yea, when I'm in alignment thoughts still arise but they just aren't a big deal, I think I'm not acknowledging boredom so I'm overly invested in thoughts. Quote Mention "Mediocrity is gone. Mind is clear of limitation. I seek no state of enlightenment. Neither do I remain where no enlightenment exists. Since I linger in neither condition, eyes cannot see me. If hundreds of birds strew my path with flowers, such praise would be meaningless." - A Comment on the 8th Ox Herding Picture Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loop Posted September 11, 2023 Share Posted September 11, 2023 @Orb Is there fear arising with moms footsteps? Hyper alertness. Might be insightful to notice. Quote Mention Ten thousand tears, One Belly Laugh. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orb Posted September 11, 2023 Author Share Posted September 11, 2023 Just now, Loop said: @Orb Is there fear arising with moms footsteps? Hyper alertness. Might be insightful to notice. More like just care and caution. Like there's another "sentient" being in the vicinity I will be alert in case something happens to her or something. Quote Mention "Mediocrity is gone. Mind is clear of limitation. I seek no state of enlightenment. Neither do I remain where no enlightenment exists. Since I linger in neither condition, eyes cannot see me. If hundreds of birds strew my path with flowers, such praise would be meaningless." - A Comment on the 8th Ox Herding Picture Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loop Posted September 11, 2023 Share Posted September 11, 2023 1 minute ago, Orb said: More like just care and caution. Like there's another "sentient" being in the vicinity I will be alert in case something happens to her or something. What comes up when you ask the body, “I can be relaxed around her.” Or “I can be vulnerable with her”. Sit with this for a sec, let the body respond. Quote Mention Ten thousand tears, One Belly Laugh. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James123 Posted September 11, 2023 Share Posted September 11, 2023 3 hours ago, Orb said: @James123 huh yea, when I'm in alignment thoughts still arise but they just aren't a big deal, I think I'm not acknowledging boredom so I'm overly invested in thoughts. Mind talks. It is it's purpose. You are the one, who is aware of the thoughts and neither mind nor thoughts. When you realize this booom enlightenment. Quote Mention "It is impossible for a man to learn what he thinks he already knows." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daniel Posted September 11, 2023 Share Posted September 11, 2023 Keep in mind that thoughts and emotions are two sides of the same coin, and then notice what sorts of emotions are driving the mental activity. Be as aware in your body as you are in your mind, people often approach meditation as a purely mental activity which seems like a rather misguided, limited way of going about it, given that thought is only one half of the equation. Quote Mention Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Posted September 11, 2023 Share Posted September 11, 2023 On 9/8/2023 at 9:39 PM, Orb said: wow that really clicked, so when emotion isn't acknowledged, thought goes into screen saver mode. That inspires a new thread coming up! 6 hours ago, Orb said: More like just care and caution. Like there's another "sentient" being in the vicinity I will be alert in case something happens to her or something. Screen saver mode in the sense that a cover story of thoughts & beliefs pop up covering up the truth, the screen, yeah that sounds spot on. Emotion, or how those thoughts feel, in terms of guidance for thoughts… is flawless & perfect without exception. But are the thoughts and why certain emotions are felt actually questioned / listened to? Do you really believe you care about others? Do you really believe you are one of some number of sentient beings? Do you really believe you’re protecting anybody? The Good news, the truth, is the dropping of the mental weight, the back story… that there is something other than This. Quote Mention YouTube Website Sessions Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orb Posted September 11, 2023 Author Share Posted September 11, 2023 (edited) 10 hours ago, Loop said: What comes up when you ask the body, “I can be relaxed around her.” Or “I can be vulnerable with her”. Sit with this for a sec, let the body respond. Tomorrow morning during meditation if the footsteps come back ill give it a shot. 7 hours ago, James123 said: Mind talks. It is it's purpose. You are the one, who is aware of the thoughts and neither mind nor thoughts. When you realize this booom enlightenment. Gotcha, thoughts are okay! 5 hours ago, Daniel said: Keep in mind that thoughts and emotions are two sides of the same coin, and then notice what sorts of emotions are driving the mental activity. Be as aware in your body as you are in your mind, people often approach meditation as a purely mental activity which seems like a rather misguided, limited way of going about it, given that thought is only one half of the equation. Yea that's a great insight, the thoughts arising are not the only part of the equation, maybe if the emotion was different the thought space would be different. 3 hours ago, Phil said: Screen saver mode in the sense that a cover story of thoughts & beliefs pop up covering up the truth, the screen, yeah that sounds spot on. Emotion, or how those thoughts feel, in terms of guidance for thoughts… is flawless & perfect without exception. But are the thoughts and why certain emotions are felt actually questioned / listened to? Do you really believe you care about others? Do you really believe you are one of some number of sentient beings? Do you really believe you’re protecting anybody? The Good news, the truth, is the dropping of the mental weight, the back story… that there is something other than This. Ive heard you mention emotional guidance and pointless rumination arising due to not listening many times and now it just clicked, it's so simple and I overcomplicated it. So thoughts never stop arising, they just align with feeling. My only question is, who is listening to the guidance? Edited September 11, 2023 by Orb Quote Mention "Mediocrity is gone. Mind is clear of limitation. I seek no state of enlightenment. Neither do I remain where no enlightenment exists. Since I linger in neither condition, eyes cannot see me. If hundreds of birds strew my path with flowers, such praise would be meaningless." - A Comment on the 8th Ox Herding Picture Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Posted September 11, 2023 Share Posted September 11, 2023 56 minutes ago, Orb said: Ive heard you mention emotional guidance and pointless rumination arising due to not listening many times and now it just clicked, it's so simple and I overcomplicated it. So thoughts never stop arising, they just align with feeling. That thoughts never stop arising is not known because time is not known but is believed and believed to be known. Thoughts can definitely stop arising. This is measurable & provable with an EKG headset. Thinking about thoughts not arising of course doesn’t result in thoughts not arising. Meditation does however. If there is a desire for thoughts to stop arising, then the thoughts are at the least unpleasant, discordant, and the guidance is felt. Wanting thoughts to stop is not listening to the guidance. Listening to the guidance dispels beliefs, interpretations change, and there’s less discord and less rumination. Thought is not inherently discordant. It is entirely possible to experience pure positive aligned thoughts. It’s a profound joy actually. 56 minutes ago, Orb said: My only question is, who is listening to the guidance? Guidance as in communion. Not as in words from people / lies. Quote Mention YouTube Website Sessions Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orb Posted September 11, 2023 Author Share Posted September 11, 2023 @Phil ah 💡 Quote Mention "Mediocrity is gone. Mind is clear of limitation. I seek no state of enlightenment. Neither do I remain where no enlightenment exists. Since I linger in neither condition, eyes cannot see me. If hundreds of birds strew my path with flowers, such praise would be meaningless." - A Comment on the 8th Ox Herding Picture Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orb Posted September 11, 2023 Author Share Posted September 11, 2023 (edited) @Phil would you say the first step is to love thoughts and let thoughts be transmuted and over time things quiet down? Edited September 12, 2023 by Orb Quote Mention "Mediocrity is gone. Mind is clear of limitation. I seek no state of enlightenment. Neither do I remain where no enlightenment exists. Since I linger in neither condition, eyes cannot see me. If hundreds of birds strew my path with flowers, such praise would be meaningless." - A Comment on the 8th Ox Herding Picture Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Posted September 12, 2023 Share Posted September 12, 2023 37 minutes ago, Orb said: @Phil would you say the first step is to love thoughts and let thoughts be transmuted and over time things quiet down? For a separate self in time or now? Quote Mention YouTube Website Sessions Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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