Suffering is Addicting

[Phil]

@Orb

“This stuff” is 

the emotions felt __________

the thought is ____________

 

The confusion might come from everything that’s unnecessarily being added. 

[Orb]

@Phil I find pivoting feels great too! 

 

I got overwhelmed when I read your initial post because it reminded me othe usual enlightenment story I often believe. 

 

I just want to feel good, it doesn't matter to me if the thoughts are self referential, as long as they feel good then it's fine.

[Orb]

@Phil at the same time the motivation for LoA comes from seeking which you said comes to an end when the separate self is recognized to be a thought. 

 

conceptually that makes sense, but seeking is still going on so somethings up 

[Mandy]

59 minutes ago, Orb said:

All of this shit just sounds like being an ordinary person, like everyones like this already. 

BOOM. That's the way you wanted it. 

 

1 hour ago, Orb said:

 Like yay there was never a problem in the first place, it's like ive been pickpocketed and the thief sold me my own watch. 

That's the way you wanted it, you're the thief and you get 100% of the proceeds. 

[Orb]

@Mandy im so tired of the ups and downs. 

 

 

My porn addiction is getting worse. My brain is rotting.

[Devin]

56 minutes ago, Orb said:

@Mandy im so tired of the ups and downs. 

 

 

My porn addiction is getting worse. My brain is rotting.

Substitute it with a healthier addiction; running, working out, cooking, studying, yoga, .... you need something to focus on like those, use that porn energy up on something positive and just keep chipping away at positioning yourself better in life and slowly processing your trauma.

[Phil]

39 minutes ago, Orb said:

@Phil I find pivoting feels great too! 

 

I got overwhelmed when I read your initial post because it reminded me othe usual enlightenment story I often believe. 

 

I just want to feel good, it doesn't matter to me if the thoughts are self referential, as long as they feel good then it's fine.

Yes, totally. Pivoting is alignment / allowing a more resonating thought - vs hanging onto a discordant thought, belief or mental position.

Pivoting / alignment isn’t that of a doer doing, it’s an allowing of the Goodness this Is Actual. Efforting vs effortlessness.

 

Expressing emotions (all spirituality) is about emptying. All spirituality is letting go of all which is discordant. (Thoughts, beliefs, emotions, interpretations.) It’s all an uncovering of Self. 🤍 

 

‘What you resist persists’. When the emotion (already felt) is acknowledged, honored even, appreciated & allowed to be fully felt - there’s no more resistance… and the discordant interpretations change in aligning with the very source they’re arising of / as / that which is appearing. ‘Pure positive thought’ as Abe says. ☺️Goodness. 

 

’I get overwhelmed’ (separate self) is aligned in that it’s expression vs resisting / ignoring.

Yet is ever so slightly subtly discordant as compared to overwhelment. (No implication of two / separation). 

 

Self referential thoughts that resonate are aligned. You’re awesome. Any thought in that ballpark resonates because, you’re awesome. The thoughts “themselves” aren’t true… but feel differently… and that’s the ‘guidance’ aspect. It’s You, ever-present, never left, never moved, everything’s actually fine, great, better than great, perfection. Like memories as one example, how awesome and perfect is it that memories which arise now can make it seem like there’s this whole life, time, etc. The richness & perfection of The Present is ineffably astounding isn’t it!? 

 

41 minutes ago, Orb said:

@Phil at the same time the motivation for LoA comes from seeking which you said comes to an end when the separate self is recognized to be a thought. 

 

conceptually that makes sense, but seeking is still going on so somethings up 

It’s like there are two camps of thought & interpretation (nothing wrong with either / any):

 

1. The ego (believed & based on separation): me, mine, my, getting, taking, achieving, obtaining, becoming. Never ending struggle & strife. Discord. Suffering. 

2. The Present (actual, no beliefs required): receiving, attracting, allowing, enjoying, appreciating, gratitude, synchronicity, communion. 

 

Expressing emotions felt is all about emptying out the ego interpretations / beliefs - vs continuing to experience the same discordant interpretations. 

 

Motive, motivation goes in the ego camp (imo). 

In-spirit, inspired, inspiring, inspiration is the nature of the unfettered cork, The Present. 🤍

Therein loa can be misinterpreted as seeking, by adding motivation.

What is is perfection, what’s unfolding is perfection.

And here we are.

Apparently.  

[Phil]

1 hour ago, Mandy said:

BOOM. That's the way you wanted it. 

Yes. A thousand times, yes. 🤍

 

@Devin

Great advice. 🙏🏻 

[Joseph Maynor]

On 7/25/2023 at 5:54 AM, Phil said:

The instant the separate self of thought, all knowing & understanding are recognized as thoughts… beliefs… liberation is recognized to already be the case. The recognition is always available and is not attained, obtained nor is there anyone which becomes any thing. The seeking ends when the seeking for knowing & understanding ends. There’s no difference. This is ‘where’ actually feeling (Feeling) is, ‘where’ the game / charade / facade ends. Here, now, already. Seeking is knowing & understanding / which is avoidance of that all is (so to speak) being does for you. The Present. 🤍

 

Wiggle the fingers and notice how ridiculous it is to claim there is another, a second self, the doer, which is doing this. It’s the same for every single arising thought / narrative of what the doer, knower, understander is or isn’t doing, does or doesn’t know, or does or doesn’t understand.

 

The only exception is the ego, the separate self, the one which knows & understands. “Yeah but for me”.

 

As if somehow, in some way, knowing & understanding are going to result in feeling. That is what suffering is. Innocence appears as arrogance. It’s all avoidance of feeling, of love. You’re infinite and you don’t know a God damn single finite thing thing because you’re infinite & unconditional and all these things & conditions like knowing & understanding are beliefs ‘of’ the ‘separate self’ / the activity of thought. When one goes so does the other because there is already not two and it’s just thoughts. 

 

In short, it’s all to avoid feeling emotions / feeling, because when so to speak you do - none of the believed interpretations, which all involve “you” -  hold any water. Thus enlightenment is simply, ordinary and already the actuality. 

 

But you know & understand so much and therein must defend your self. 

Otherwise you’d be happiness which being infinite of course doesn’t know or understand anything as ‘it’ has no thing to claim and is already the case.

 

Happened to me… happened… isn’t happening… nothing’s happening. 

 

 

Amazing as the message is, this forum can be used to ramble on for decades without ever actually stoping to question if a thought is true. 

@Phil My question is why aren’t emotions seen as being on the same level as thoughts when it comes to attaching to ego?  I can pull the I-thought out of emotions and even say “these emotions are not mine”.   Good or bad, concordant or discordant, the emotions are not mine.

Edited Thursday at 11:01 PM by Joseph Maynor

[Phil]

@Joseph Maynor

Because emotions aren’t seen, level is a thought, there is no ego there is attachment to, emotions aren’t things which thoughts could be pulled out of, nor are emotions someone’s or not someone’s. 

[Joseph Maynor]

12 hours ago, Phil said:

@Joseph Maynor

Because emotions aren’t seen, level is a thought, there is no ego there is attachment to, emotions aren’t things which thoughts could be pulled out of, nor are emotions someone’s or not someone’s. 

Given what you said here, I'm confused about the focus on emotions as some kind of guidance mechanism.

[Phil]

Just now, Joseph Maynor said:

Given what you said here, I'm confused about the focus on emotions as some kind of guidance mechanism.

How so?

[Joseph Maynor]

34 minutes ago, Phil said:

How so?

 

I'm somewhat suspect of emotions just as I am of thoughts.  If I were restricting myself to the human, I would say of course any sane person would prefer to have constructive thoughts and harmonious and positive emotions.  But I also see too, alternatively, that attachment to anything positive can lead to suffering because things aren't always going to go that way, and it's not clear how much control we have over basically being happy all the time.  There's gotta be a way to be Happy that goes beyond happiness.  This means no matter what the thoughts and emotions are doing, or what the body is doing, what the mind is doing, what the ego is doing -- I'm Happy regardless.  My Happiness goes beyond happiness in other words.  You can pull the I-thought out of emotions as you can thoughts.  This is a complex issue, I'm not trying to overly challenge your view.  I agree with it.  I'm huge on emotions for guidance as I've said on here.  But I also realize too the trap of attaching to positive and harmonious emotions.  It can lead to unnecessary suffering because emotions are a mixed-bag and not always the singular or best thing to be focused on because often they're passions that come from ego.  Of course ego wants to be happy, young, beautiful, strong, rich, pain free, etc.  But that is a thought and an attachment.  

Edited yesterday at 03:01 PM by Joseph Maynor

[Phil]

@Joseph Maynor

There’s an experience of this being said…

13 hours ago, Phil said:

emotions aren’t seen, level is a thought, there is no ego there is attachment to, emotions aren’t things which thoughts could be pulled out of, nor are emotions someone’s or not someone’s. 

 

And an experience of it seeming like this was said…

25 minutes ago, Joseph Maynor said:

the focus on emotions as some kind of guidance mechanism.

 

And then there is an experience of confusion… of what’s said, not jiving with what it seems like was said… 

 

… and so then this arises…

12 minutes ago, Joseph Maynor said:

 

I'm somewhat suspect of emotions just as I am of thoughts.  If I were restricting myself to the human, I would say of course any sane person would prefer to have constructive thoughts and harmonious and positive emotions.  But I also see too, alternatively, that attachment to anything positive can lead to suffering because things aren't always going to go that way, and it's not clear how much control we have over basically being happy all the time.  There's gotta be a way to be Happy that goes beyond happiness.  This means no matter what the thoughts and emotions are doing, or what the body is doing, what the mind is doing, what the ego is doing -- I'm Happy regardless.  My Happiness goes beyond happiness in other words.  You can pull the I-thought out of emotions as you can thoughts.  This is a complex issue, I'm not trying to overly challenge your view.  I agree with it.  I'm huge on emotions for guidance as I've said on here.  But I also realize too the trap of attaching to positive and harmonious emotions.  It can lead to unnecessary suffering because emotions are a mixed bag and not always the singular or best thing to be focused on because often they're passions that come from ego.  Of course ego(s) wants to be happy, young, beautiful, strong, rich, pain free, etc.  But that is a thought and an attachment.  

So, what is… this ⬆️ experientially, most fundamentally?  What is the actuality, the direct experience of this ⬆️?