Kevin Posted September 9 Author Share Posted September 9 14 hours ago, Phil said: It’s not a different / better experience, it’s un-obscurred being. Un-obscured of experience. I guess this is where I reach an impasse. I don’t like how I feel. Waking up seems like a solution. I guess I can’t understand what waking up would be like though. The only thing I can picture it as is a better experience. Maybe I don’t need to think about it though. It's kind of a tough situation because the desire for enlightenment is also a desire to feel better which maybe is also a desire to escape. 5 hours ago, Phil said: What’s the difference between “I’m feeling hopeful”, and I’m feeling hopefulness? Well I’m feeling hopeful is the same old me stuff and I’m feeling hopefulness isn’t personal. Quote Mention Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mandy Posted September 10 Share Posted September 10 The age old question... How are you? Which feels heaviest? "I'm an impatient person." "I won't be happy until this situation changes." "I'm feeling the guidance of impatience." Quote Mention Youtube Channel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orb Posted September 10 Share Posted September 10 @Phil just curious, if the exploration you went through ended in cessation / no thought. Then how come you mention aligning thought with feeling? Is this like a stepping stone towards eventual No Mind? im assuming thoughts arise in your experience only for communication? Quote Mention "Mediocrity is gone. Mind is clear of limitation. I seek no state of enlightenment. Neither do I remain where no enlightenment exists. Since I linger in neither condition, eyes cannot see me. If hundreds of birds strew my path with flowers, such praise would be meaningless." - A Comment on the 8th Ox Herding Picture Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Posted September 10 Share Posted September 10 @Orb What is the one that went through something? That mentions or is mentioning? What is a your experience? Quote Mention YouTube Website Sessions Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orb Posted September 10 Share Posted September 10 23 minutes ago, Phil said: @Orb What is the one that went through something? That mentions or is mentioning? What is a your experience? When you say you don't experience thoughts do you mean that thoughts arise but there's no thinker? Yes these are thoughts arising. Quote Mention "Mediocrity is gone. Mind is clear of limitation. I seek no state of enlightenment. Neither do I remain where no enlightenment exists. Since I linger in neither condition, eyes cannot see me. If hundreds of birds strew my path with flowers, such praise would be meaningless." - A Comment on the 8th Ox Herding Picture Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Posted September 10 Share Posted September 10 34 minutes ago, Orb said: When you say you don't experience thoughts do you mean that thoughts arise but there's no thinker? Yes these are thoughts arising. No, I mean there is very plainly, simply & literally no experience of thoughts. Quote Mention YouTube Website Sessions Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Posted September 10 Share Posted September 10 @Kevin Grasp your right hand with your right hand, and share how it feels. Quote Mention YouTube Website Sessions Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orb Posted September 10 Share Posted September 10 1 hour ago, Phil said: No, I mean there is very plainly, simply & literally no experience of thoughts. So what happens when you communicate? Isn't that inspired by thoughts? What about attracting? Do you allow inspiring thoughts to arise? Quote Mention "Mediocrity is gone. Mind is clear of limitation. I seek no state of enlightenment. Neither do I remain where no enlightenment exists. Since I linger in neither condition, eyes cannot see me. If hundreds of birds strew my path with flowers, such praise would be meaningless." - A Comment on the 8th Ox Herding Picture Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Posted September 10 Share Posted September 10 1 hour ago, Orb said: So what happens when you communicate? An apparent experience of communication happens without there being anyone communicating. 1 hour ago, Orb said: Isn't that inspired by thoughts? No. 1 hour ago, Orb said: What about attracting? Do you allow inspiring thoughts to arise? Literally - there is no experience of thoughts. Quote Mention YouTube Website Sessions Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Posted September 10 Share Posted September 10 @Kevin Then grasp anything else with your right hand. Cell phone. A towel. Anything. And share how that feels. Quote Mention YouTube Website Sessions Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orb Posted September 10 Share Posted September 10 13 minutes ago, Phil said: An apparent experience of communication happens without there being anyone communicating. No. Literally - there is no experience of thoughts. Damn That's crazy 🙂 Quote Mention "Mediocrity is gone. Mind is clear of limitation. I seek no state of enlightenment. Neither do I remain where no enlightenment exists. Since I linger in neither condition, eyes cannot see me. If hundreds of birds strew my path with flowers, such praise would be meaningless." - A Comment on the 8th Ox Herding Picture Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Posted September 10 Share Posted September 10 @Orb *Sanity. Quote Mention YouTube Website Sessions Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kevin Posted September 10 Author Share Posted September 10 16 hours ago, Mandy said: The age old question... How are you? Which feels heaviest? "I'm an impatient person." "I won't be happy until this situation changes." "I'm feeling the guidance of impatience." I’m an impatient person feels the heaviest Quote Mention Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kevin Posted September 10 Author Share Posted September 10 (edited) 43 minutes ago, Phil said: @Kevin Then grasp anything else with your right hand. Cell phone. A towel. Anything. And share how that feels. I can’t grasp my right hand with my right hand. I can pick up my phone with my right hand and I can type this response. Edited September 10 by Kevin Spelling Quote Mention Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orb Posted September 10 Share Posted September 10 41 minutes ago, Phil said: @Orb *Sanity. I saw that coming! Quote Mention "Mediocrity is gone. Mind is clear of limitation. I seek no state of enlightenment. Neither do I remain where no enlightenment exists. Since I linger in neither condition, eyes cannot see me. If hundreds of birds strew my path with flowers, such praise would be meaningless." - A Comment on the 8th Ox Herding Picture Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Posted September 10 Share Posted September 10 1 hour ago, Kevin said: I can’t grasp my right hand with my right hand. I can pick up my phone with my right hand and I can type this response. Right, exactly. Profoundly simple & straightforward. That’s simply how it is. Self-evident. The right hand can’t grasp the right hand, because the right hand already is the right hand. If I said, “I am grasping my right hand with my right hand”, you might discern that I’m being honest, yet you’d nonetheless be aware that I’m not actually grasping my right hand with my right hand. I might be experiencing the thought or belief that I am, but I’m not actually. Do you agree? Quote Mention YouTube Website Sessions Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kevin Posted September 10 Author Share Posted September 10 21 minutes ago, Phil said: Right, exactly. Profoundly simple & straightforward. That’s simply how it is. Self-evident. The right hand can’t grasp the right hand, because the right hand already is the right hand. If I said, “I am grasping my right hand with my right hand”, you might discern that I’m being honest, yet you’d nonetheless be aware that I’m not actually grasping my right hand with my right hand. I might be experiencing the thought or belief that I am, but I’m not actually. Do you agree? Yes that makes sense. Quote Mention Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Posted September 10 Share Posted September 10 @Kevin If the right hand held a rubber ball, then sandpaper and then hot wax, the right hand (analogy wise) could describe its experience & how it feels. Make sense? Quote Mention YouTube Website Sessions Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kevin Posted September 10 Author Share Posted September 10 28 minutes ago, Phil said: @Kevin If the right hand held a rubber ball, then sandpaper and then hot wax, the right hand (analogy wise) could describe its experience & how it feels. Make sense? Ok here’s is where I get tripped up. Analogy wise the hand would be happiness and bliss. So it would make sense that I could orient to the hand and feel better. What I experience is that there isn’t a hand I can orient to in order to experience more happiness and wellbeing. Quote Mention Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Posted September 10 Share Posted September 10 2 hours ago, Kevin said: Ok here’s is where I get tripped up. Analogy wise the hand would be happiness and bliss. So it would make sense that I could orient to the hand and feel better. What I experience is that there isn’t a hand I can orient to in order to experience more happiness and wellbeing. You’re not tripped up. You got it. There is not a hand you can orient to in order to experience more happiness and wellbeing. The right hand can’t orient to the right hand for happiness and well-being, because the right hand already is, the right hand (happiness & well-being). If the right hand were seeking happiness & well-being outside of itself, it would be overlooking that it already is, happiness and well-being. It would be obscured by the activity of itself, that is the seeking of its own true nature, outside of or beyond itself. One way the hand might overlook itself, is mistaking how experience(s) feels, like holding a rubber ball, sandpaper or hot wax, for how it (the hand) itself feels. One way Being might overlook itself, is mistaking how experience(s) feels, like thoughts, emotions and sensation, for it’s own true nature. Quote Mention YouTube Website Sessions Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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