Thought-feeling? Feel-thinking? None?

[ivankiss]

Is thought always accompanied by feeling? Is feeling always accompanied by thought? 

Is thinking and feeling sort of, kind of just two ends of the same rope? Is thought and feeling one and the same?

 

Can there be complete absence of thought? Complete absence of feeling?

 

If there is thought only, there is no motion. The picture is frozen.

If there is feeling only, there is no self-reflection. Infinite motion that no one knows about.

 

Does this sound true?

 

How is it all just consciousness? Where and how exactly does consciousness bleed into thoughts and feelings?

 

Magic? Or is there an actual process of some sort?

Is there even thought or feeling? Because trying to find a thought or a feeling is always a failure.

 

Is it just a distortion? Like static on a radio station? Is it just noise?

Frequency offset...?!

 

I NEED TO KNOW!!! 😄

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Phil]

5 hours ago, ivankiss said:

Is thought always accompanied by feeling? Is feeling always accompanied by thought? 

Is thinking and feeling sort of, kind of just two ends of the same rope? Is thought and feeling one and the same?

 

Can there be complete absence of thought? Complete absence of feeling?

For who?

 

5 hours ago, ivankiss said:

 

If there is thought only, there is no motion. The picture is frozen.

If there is feeling only, there is no self-reflection. Infinite motion that no one knows about.

 

Does this sound true?

Believe it or not motion & reflection are thoughts.

 

5 hours ago, ivankiss said:

How is it all just consciousness? Where and how exactly does consciousness bleed into thoughts and feelings?

Not two.

🤍

[ivankiss]

47 minutes ago, Phil said:

For who?

For that which is aware of a thought or a feeling. Awareness.

48 minutes ago, Phil said:

Believe it not motion & reflection are thoughts.

So there is no motion and no reflection? Reflection implies duality, ok... but why can there be no motion?

51 minutes ago, Phil said:

Not two.

🤍

So it's consciousness masquerading as a thought or a feeling? How?! Where?! Why?! 😄

[Phil]

3 minutes ago, ivankiss said:

For that which is aware of a thought or a feeling. Awareness.

That would be finite awareness, which would actually be a thought (about awareness). 

 

3 minutes ago, ivankiss said:

So there is no motion and no reflection? Reflection implies duality, ok... but why can there be no motion?

I’m not saying there can’t be, only that motion is as is directly experienced. 

 

3 minutes ago, ivankiss said:

So it's consciousness masquerading as a thought or a feeling? How?! Where?! Why?! 😄

That would be finite consciousness, which would actually be a thought (about consciousness). 

[ivankiss]

@Phil Are there thoughts and feelings or not?!😄

[Phil]

@ivankiss

For who? 

[ivankiss]

@Phil Why does that matter? 

[Phil]

@ivankiss

Nothing matters. 

[ivankiss]

@Phil Why is there a perceived difference between thinking and feeling? Is that what trinity is? Thought, feeling, perception?

Just give me something 😅

Edited August 4, 2023 by ivankiss

[ivankiss]

Conscious of something (a thought or a feeling) is duality, right? And Oneness is just pure, uninterrupted, undisturbed consciousness. Beingness. Right?

Why the heck do thoughts and feelings arise then? Where do they come from and where do they go?! 

Edited August 4, 2023 by ivankiss

[Mandy]

All depends on a belief in time. If you truly listen you don't know what came before or what comes after, the same with feeling. Imagine if thoughts were beats or notes.

[James123]

7 hours ago, ivankiss said:

Is thought always accompanied by feeling? Is feeling always accompanied by thought? 

Is thinking and feeling sort of, kind of just two ends of the same rope? Is thought and feeling one and the same?

 

Can there be complete absence of thought? Complete absence of feeling?

 

If there is thought only, there is no motion. The picture is frozen.

If there is feeling only, there is no self-reflection. Infinite motion that no one knows about.

 

Does this sound true?

 

How is it all just consciousness? Where and how exactly does consciousness bleed into thoughts and feelings?

 

Magic? Or is there an actual process of some sort?

Is there even thought or feeling? Because trying to find a thought or a feeling is always a failure.

 

Is it just a distortion? Like static on a radio station? Is it just noise?

Frequency offset...?!

 

I NEED TO KNOW!!! 😄

 

 

 

 

 

 

Investigate the thought and feeling, where are they? It seems to be empty, isn't it?

[Phil]

1 hour ago, ivankiss said:

@Phil Why is there a perceived difference between thinking and feeling?

In so far as perception refers to seeing & hearing (etc) there isn’t. 

 

1 hour ago, ivankiss said:

Is that what trinity is? Thought, feeling, perception?

No.

 

1 hour ago, ivankiss said:

Just give me something 😅

If I knew what something was I gladly would. I bet you’d love the monthly Zoom calls. Type is so limited. 

 

[ivankiss]

8 hours ago, Mandy said:

All depends on a belief in time. If you truly listen you don't know what came before or what comes after, the same with feeling. Imagine if thoughts were beats or notes.

Does it have to do anything with the breath? Are thoughts and feelings just breath doing weird stuff? 

Not sure if I understand the musical notes analogy, if you care to elaborate 🙂

8 hours ago, James123 said:

Investigate the thought and feeling, where are they? It seems to be empty, isn't it?

I can never find any. It's like it only seems as if it's there... but if you really go looking for it, it disappears.

8 hours ago, Phil said:

 

I bet you’d love the monthly Zoom calls. Type is so limited. 

 

 For sure. Looking forward to that.

[James123]

21 minutes ago, ivankiss said:

9 hours ago, James123 said:

they? It seems to be empty, isn't it?

I can never find any. It's like it only seems as if it's there... but if you really go looking for it, it disappears.

Definitely. Word of thought or feeling is just used to point of so called other words expression. But in, truth there is no such thing as thought, feeling, word etc... Nothing has never happened, now is before so called birth, knowing is the biggest illusion.

[Phil]

17 hours ago, ivankiss said:

Is thought always accompanied by feeling?

Basic meditation is gently withdrawing attention from thought & returning attention again & again to feeling breathing in the stomach. The activity of thought slows, and inevitably thoughts stop appearing. Feeling is more pronounced and prevalent - less obscured. 

 

Feeling is not this way. Try as one might feeling doesn’t ‘turn off’. As one attempts to be without feeling there’s despondence, and with momentum of this there is inevitably anxiety & a sense of isolation, loneliness and the like. 

 

Conversely, as one welcomes feeling, acknowledges emotion as guidance for thoughts, feels fully & embraces feeling & emotions, there is very much the opposite. There’s calmness, relaxation, connection, inclusion, wholeness, satisfaction, fullness, true happiness and guidance for one’s life & creating. There’s also better health respectively, and all matters of life, relationships and things just working out for you in general are bettered. With momentum, inevitably much clarity, insights, wisdom  and epiphanies are experienced. With more momentum revelation occurs and it’s oddly, interestingly  & humorously curious how what seems to have become obvious wasn’t before. 

 

17 hours ago, ivankiss said:

Is feeling always accompanied by thought? 

These words are really just more thoughts in that regard. Meditate daily and see. Acknowledge & receive emotion as guidance and see. Allow the body & mind to fill up with what it’s made of, and see. Careful not to turn these suggestions in to expectations… just relax, allow & receive as an open vessel. 

 

Use the emotional scale and bring thoughts to mind and feel the emotions. See that emotions are how thoughts feel, and that there is infinite intelligence ‘behind’ the emotions, guidance for creating. Analogously think of us like satellites which can go rogue in terms of feeling / connectivity, or we can reconnect & stay connected. Communion. Think of feeling as readily available, most loving, comforting, supportive, filling of the heart & humbling to the mind. 

 

17 hours ago, ivankiss said:

Is thinking and feeling sort of, kind of just two ends of the same rope? Is thought and feeling one and the same?

Nonduality… not two. 🙂

 

17 hours ago, ivankiss said:

Can there be complete absence of thought? Complete absence of feeling?

The last thing I would want is anyone to take my word for anything. There’s no catch with daily meditation. It’s life enhancing and enlightening. It’s an allowing of the Non into the mind & into experience. Non-reaction, non-anger, non-worry, non-concern of what people think etc. 

 

17 hours ago, ivankiss said:

If there is thought only, there is no motion. The picture is frozen.

If there is feeling only, there is no self-reflection. Infinite motion that no one knows about.

Meditation could be said to be letting ifs go and allowing What Is into your life. 

One amazingly otherwise unbelievable aspect is without the activity of thought everything still carries on exactly the same, just minus the narration, concerns & resistance. It’s an ultimate ‘getting out of one’s way’ - a mysterious ineffable flow of wonderful resistance-free-joy previously overlooked & unsuspected becomes the fundamental first order of every moment and interaction. Life moves from struggle and uncertainty to blessed and grounded. 

 

17 hours ago, ivankiss said:

Does this sound true?

Meditatively, thoughts are no longer regarded as possibly being true. Liberation. 

One way to think of thoughts… thoughts are creation, you are creator-creating-creation. 

Preferences arise, emotion guides, creator creates. Truly effortless perfection.

 

17 hours ago, ivankiss said:

How is it all just consciousness? Where and how exactly does consciousness bleed into thoughts and feelings?

“Just” consciousness!? I’d say the thought “consciousness” is “just the thought consciousness”. The thought is not very fulfilling. 

Meditatively, with a clear mind, seeing reality as it is.. consciousness is such that you can sit for days starring at a wall amazed by the mystery of your being. That anything at all seems to be happening is truly icing on the cake of consciousness. 

 

17 hours ago, ivankiss said:

Magic? Or is there an actual process of some sort?

Is there even thought or feeling? Because trying to find a thought or a feeling is always a failure.

 

Is it just a distortion? Like static on a radio station? Is it just noise?

Frequency offset...?!

 

I NEED TO KNOW!!! 😄

It’s a bit like water appearing as ice, and as ice believing it’s separate… and the ice innocently believing thoughts to the tune it’s believed ice is thinking & feeling… and therein wanting to know about water. There’s only to melt to be privy to the reality of the situation. 

[Mandy]

3 hours ago, ivankiss said:

Does it have to do anything with the breath? Are thoughts and feelings just breath doing weird stuff? 

Not sure if I understand the musical notes analogy, if you care to elaborate 🙂

 

If you're really listening, if you hear a sound in the woods and stop and become completely alert with no ideas images or fears of what it might be, there is no time in the listening. The concept/creation of a song concerns the order, and flow of the notes and beats which creates an experience of feelings and connotations and depends on time and timing. Time is the foundation of momentum.  In true feeling, like being utterly still and listening sharply in the forest, there is no time. Breath is also like beats, or increments of timing in the music. If you're present with one, you're present with the space between, so that there is no such thing as thing or no thing. Our thoughts are like beats or notes of a song, apparently separate and changing, yet the listening is changeless and never separate, and all the beats and notes are made up of are that aware listening. 

 

A sound bowl or tuning fork illustrates this, you listen intently to hear the end of the note which never comes. The sound is the listening.

 

[ivankiss]

8 hours ago, Phil said:

There’s only to melt to be privy to the reality of the situation. 

I hear you...

 

Thank you so very much for such an in depth reply. You sir rock. I salute you!

 

8 hours ago, Mandy said:

The sound is the listening.

 

That's it right there...

 

Love how you put all that. Many thanks.