Meaning, nihilism, pessimism & optimism

[Blessed2]

Just had an interesting conversation with family.

 

We're spending a week in Italy. We rented a house and got together with my uncle and his family & my family & my grandmother.

 

We had dinner and started talking about work, dreams and differences in generations like Boomers, Gen X, millennials and Gen Z.

 

My grandmother is a Boomer & holds work and carreer as a source of pride. There is less "my dreams & wishes" there, and more work ethic and sort of value & "just how it is" kinda deal. The difference to Gen Z is almost like dream & waking! She worked as a nurse for her entire life and really takes pride in it. Literally only once took a sick day off in her 40+ year carreer lol.

 

My parents & my uncle and his wife are Gen X, and they sort of fall middle. There is a bit of 'my dreams' etc, but it's quite close to boomers. Though they are more critical of intense emphasis on work ethic over well-being etc.

 

Then there was us, me, my girlfriend and my brother, all falling in the millennial - Gen Z axis. We seem to be waayyy more critical of work ethic and we bring stuff like meaning, our dreams and desires, pessimism & meaning to the table.

 

It's interesting and it got me thinking. I noticed how I see work as a means to gain what I desire, like a nice house, money etc. Work doesn't mean anything else, really. There is a stark contrast between work & free time. It seemed to be different for the older folk.

 

For us younger folk meaning & nihilism seem to play a part that's not readily seen by Boomers and Gen X.

 

For example, when I mentioned "a dream house", and how I didn't regard where my parents live as a dream place, my mom mentioned how "of course that's not a 'dream house', a dream would be a villa in Italy like this one."

 

I didn't say anything, but that got me thinking, if where she's living is not the dream, then what is she doing? Is she just settling for less for whatever reason? What's the point?

 

Interesting play of nihilism and self-referential thoughts etc. in that conversation. That's how I saw it, that's what I got out of it.

 

 

Though even if I got the dream house, a villa like this, would that solve the problem of pessimism & nihilism and all that follows like depression and alcohol abuse?

 

I got a feeling it wouldn't.

 

That might be a good thing, actually. I can feel better and live good life without getting a dream house. That's better than needing a dream house, and all the doubt, overwhelment and effort that comes with it.

 

 

I've been traveling around europe for two weeks now and been wondering & contemplating on where I'd like to live and what I want. It's been like a big theme of these travels.

 

We arrived to Italy after spening a few days in Austria, in the middle of the Alps. I really love mountains. Thought a lot of how I'd like to own a cottage in the middle of a forest next to a mountain etc. How mountains make me feel something awesome. And also I contemplated on doubt & pessimism in regard to that desire. How I'd need to make a lot of money to make it happen. How I'd need to have a succesful business etc.

 

All this stuff, these thoughts and interpretations, has been a source of a ton of despair, pessimism, doubt. And alcohol abuse, depression, nihilism.

 

 

I would like to live in a cottage in the middle of a forest next to a mountain. I'd live to just hang out there. I'd love to just have enough money to not need to work.

 

There are no mountains in Finland so I'd have to move abroad to do that. That brings a lot of doubt.

 

Seems such a hassle, to make dreams come true. Impossible, even.

 

I'm not even sure what mountain range I'd like to live in! Or what country? Austria? Italy? Or USA?

 

There is a thought/assumption that there is an objective perfection of dreams come true. A spesific mountain, a spesific country, a spesific house, a spesific town even. Impossible! If all meaning & happiness is FROM that SPESIFIC PERFECTION OF A DREAM COME TRUE, it's all impossible. Overwhelment.

 

That makes it seem like a big ass knot, something impossible to straighten out and get clear about.

 

 

It's full moon today. The conversation over dinner on a full moon like this & what it brought up and connects to what's been in my mind these past weeks and months and years is no surprise I guess. I appreciate this forum and this forum section for ramblings of a lunatic like this.

 

 

I can see how the attitude of Boomers and Gen X is less self-referential and less confused kinda (and maybe happier too), but I don't think they're totally spot on either. Millennials and Gen Z is going through something, maybe like butterflies. We're figuring out stuff that the older generations may not have acknowledged. Or what they started and what we continue on.

 

Maybe that's exactly what this emptying is.

 

 

Anyone here seen the movie, Brokeback Mountain? We watched it while in Austria for the sake of the theme, mountains. I wonder how that movie connects to all this. It's a great piece of art, one of my favourites in fact.

 

 

Time to sleep. Good Night! May all your dreams come true.

 

[Devin]

Here's the U.S. boomers when they were your age.

 

 

 

My Parents are boomers and smoked pot and drank a lot and all that back then, their parents were always dissatisfied with them, and now as they're older.... they're the boomers you describe. Don't let them fool you, it's amazing listening to older honest people about how it used to be, I've always loved talking to old people, even pre boomer generation they were wild and "lazy mooches". My grandfather did some really crazy stuff when he was young, retired as a plant manager at a factory, then got an easy job in retirement, his dad had a similar story as well. People change, some people like to forget that though.

 

They're just bitter, their life didn't turn out how they wanted so they try to give meaning to the life they did have, all while trying to gaslight you into stroking their ego with admiration.

 

Riddle me this if they worked so hard and were so upstanding; why is the world in a worse place now than it was before them?

 

Strike up conversations with old people(they love it) you'll be blown away by the stories they'll tell.

 

I was a contractor at a plant for a while, I'd have lunch with an old guy I worked with alot that worked there forever, one day he's talking about the lead guy in the place, when he first started years ago he was a stoner that was always about fired and just terrible at his entry level job, but related to the plant manager or something, the guy is straight as an arrow now, in charge, or was, he died a couple years ago.

 

The people I work with that talk the most about work ethic and all that.... they're the laziest ones.

 

I like in this one the girl says she'd spend hours on the telephone everyday talking to her friends, sound familiar? This is 50s

 

 

 

 

Edited August 1, 2023 by Devin

[Blessed2]

I'm fucking mad.

 

I'm reading Think And Grow Rich and I'm failing the first god damn step, which is definitive, laser-point desire.

 

The book gives an example of someone who had a vision/desire to be a business associate with Edison.

 

The world is full of these fucking examples of people who have a burning desire for something like that. To be a writer, an artist, a scientist etc.

 

I DON'T HAVE A FUCKING DESIRE LIKE THAT.

 

So fuck this book. I'm literally failing the first step.

 

fuck this fuck this fuck this

 

Of course it's easy when you just happen to have a desire or a vision like that.

 

"ooooo i want to be a musician"

 

fuck you.

 

 

So that's it? I'm done? No path to riches and success? I failed the first step because for some god damn reason I don't have a burning desire or a passion to do or to be something?

 

FUCK YOU FUCK THIS WORLD

 

all the time the world stands in my way. ALWAYS A FUCKING BUT

 

I don't have a desire to be a massage therapist. I don't have a desire to be a doctor or an engineer or a writer or a musician or a social worker or anything. I have a desire to have a lot of money and nice things. That's it.

 

[Mandy]

@Blessed2 You desire to have a desire. You can't lose that one. 

 

No one understands creative writing. If it automatically makes sense there's nothing to figure out. If it's immediately apparent there's no reveal. 

[Devin]

51 minutes ago, Blessed2 said:

I have a desire to have a lot of money and nice things. That's it.

 

This is a strong desire. You Think Rockefeller cared about oil, or getting rich? Carnegie cared about steel? Vanderbilt loved Choo Choo trains? JP Morgan just loved helping people get mortgages! Cargill wanted to feed the world!!

 

Nope, you have their same desire.

 

Look at Musk, you think he really cares about Tech advances? The guy in constant juvenile Twitter fights? Nope, he only cares about money.

 

Who are some people who's desire is something other than getting rich?

Edited August 2, 2023 by Devin

[Phil]

2 hours ago, Blessed2 said:

I have a desire to have a lot of money and nice things. That's it.

That’s plenty! 

Roll with that. 

[Blessed2]

3 hours ago, Mandy said:

No one understands creative writing. If it automatically makes sense there's nothing to figure out. If it's immediately apparent there's no reveal. 

 

But what's the point of reveal?

[Blessed2]

3 hours ago, Devin said:

This is a strong desire. You Think Rockefeller cared about oil, or getting rich? Carnegie cared about steel? Vanderbilt loved Choo Choo trains? JP Morgan just loved helping people get mortgages! Cargill wanted to feed the world!!

 

Nope, you have their same desire.

 

Look at Musk, you think he really cares about Tech advances? The guy in constant juvenile Twitter fights? Nope, he only cares about money.

 

Who are some people who's desire is something other than getting rich?

 

🤔🤔🤔

[Mandy]

3 hours ago, Blessed2 said:

 

But what's the point of reveal?

Fun, satisfaction, surprise, relief, no point at all. 

[Blessed2]

It feels better to focus on ACIM rather than desires / loa, because in loa there's a ton of doubt, but in ACIM very little & in fact it's being eliminated quite well.

 

There isn't much doubt whether ACIM will deliver. Or whether salvation (end of suffering & ignorance) will prevail. The Message is so clear and the book talks to me in ways no other has talked.

 

ACIM goes straight down "Doubt isn't possible because it is not of God. Therefore if there seems to be doubt, you see what isn't actually there." (Not an actual quote but that's the message)

 

In my experience loa isn't quite as clear or direct in it's message on doubt. I see how these two point to the same thing, but somehow the way ACIM presents it just feels a bit lighter and more effortless.

 

 

 

Been wondering lately if what I've been calling "desire" is really just... Doubt.

 

What would desire be without doubt? Love and joy? 😂 Desire without doubt would not be desire, it would be the appearance of what's wanted.

 

When I say "I desire", maybe what I'm really saying is "I doubt".

 

@Mandy @Phil Does that make sense to you?

[Mandy]

@Blessed2 Yes. Pretty much all Abraham talks about it turning from doubting desire to dreaming and enjoying it which happens to be unconditional. Or to rephrase simply in the moment turning to thoughts that feel good. You can't specifically wish for anything if you aren't aligned with it without feeling the guidance of doubt, the key is to be less specific. At some point staying too general starts to feel dead, too "safe", can become aversion and you wish to get specific again. You won't keep yourself safe by staying general and by believing that "that is it" but if being general right now feels amazing by all means enjoy it. 

[Phil]

Doubt’s an emotion, emotion is how thoughts feel. Doubt is how a thought about loa feels, not per se how loa feels. 

It’s like saying how gravity feels. It would really be how a thought about gravity feels.

Gravity, or loa, is already happening regardless of thoughts about. 

 

The ACIM material sounds really great. Maybe there is some wisdom in that material which could be applied to thoughts about loa to dispel the doubt. 

 

Also the doubt could be pointing to why a thought or certain thoughts feel that way.

 

Maybe there is a belief or beliefs about knowing what is or isn’t possible, and how it will or won’t be, and doubt is felt as to the reality of your potentiality & unconditionality.

 

Could also backtrack and try to specifically isolate when the content / book ACIM was asserted into your experience. 

 

6 hours ago, Blessed2 said:

What would desire be without doubt? Love and joy?

Yes.

 

Can a unicorn find or receive salvation? 

 

‘Meaning, nihilism, pessimism & optimism’… a beauty of nonduality is the simplicity and clarity of the pointing of not two. 

[Blessed2]

2 hours ago, Phil said:

Also the doubt could be pointing to why a thought or certain thoughts feel that way.

 

Maybe there is a belief or beliefs about knowing what is or isn’t possible, and how it will or won’t be, and doubt is felt as to the reality of your potentiality & unconditionality.

 

Yeah there are some beliefs.

 

What stands out right away is that making a lot of money is impossible without effort, skill, luck, intelligence and/or a lot of work.

 

Winning the lottery is possible, but that's very unlikely to happen. Maybe that could be attracted loa style, but that wouldn't be possible to me because I'm not able to be that aligned. Maybe for someone else who is very good in finding alignment and is enlightened n shit that could be simply chosen like in a lucid dream.

 

Also I experience doubt of the thoughts like "I don't know if I will be able to meditate and do what needs to be done to find alignment."

 

 

The world seems very very real. It seem like I do live in a world and that there very much is or isn't a million bucks in my bank account.

 

There is a thought, I do not know whether I will succeed in the future or not.

 

 

"I can't just choose to have a million bucks."

 

[Phil]

@Blessed2

Great introspection & expression imo. 

The world is as real as the identity as person. 🙂

The apparent brain of course can not distinguish real from apparent. 

 

“Nothing real can be threatened. Nothing unreal exists. Herein lies the peace of God.”

 

“Be like melting snow, wash yourself of your self”

 

[Blessed2]

What is it I actually want?

 

By 'being rich', 'having a lot of money', 'having millions' I see in  visualization a big house, freedom, and pride.

 

I'd like to check into that "freedom".

 

The difference now vs. having that freedom I believe being rich would give is that when I'd have that freedom, I would feel relaxed in my body. I would feel kind of restful and peaceful. In my mind's eye I see myself lying on a sofa, it's late at night and I'm relaxed knowing I don't ever need to wake up early and go to work or school if I don't want to. I can do anything I want.

 

I feel expansive. I feel light, almost like flying.

 

That's basically the "freedom" I'd like to have, to just be able to not do anything I don't want to do. So that I could just spend an eternal holiday.

 

I feel my breathing get slower and deeper. I feel my stomach area and legs relax.

 

I feel a lightness and a joy spreading in my stomach area.

 

Childlike relaxation and freedom. Expansion. Flying.

 

In my visualization of being rich, I see myself visualizing the future. I see myself imagining how there is nothing I need to do tomorrow, a day after that, a week after that, a month after that etc. I can just relax. I can just be lazy. Oh boy, I can be LAZY.

 

That's the dream folks. That you can just be lazy. That you can just give up. And happiness is still given.

 

"Oh no" says the christians, the hindus, the orange capitalists, the mom and the dad, the religious conservatives. "Laziness is the WORST. Laziness is the enemy. Laziness is death, sin, and the wages of sin is death."

 

Now I see myself (weird how "I see myself" came, really I see discordant thoughts arise) how i'd just let myself be lazy & not do anything I don't want to do, how I wouldn't go to school, how I'd stop getting money from anywhere, how my girlfriend would have to pay everything for me, how my parents and her parents & friends would think I'm a questionable and horrible person, how I'd drink almost every day, how (maybe that's all the hows).

 

Wages of sin is shame?!

 

Maybe I don't really mind drinking, but shame.

 

Drinking; very real. Shame; very real. Consequences; very real. Future; very real.

 

Not knowing if I will have money; very real. 

 

Not being able to align; very real.

 

Having problems; very real.

 

 

[Blessed2]

There is a word for what I do not want: Rat Race / Wage Slavery.

 

What I want is called financial freedom.

 

Yesterday while walking back to our hotel, I stumbled upon a bookshop that had some english books too. There was the book Rich Dad Poor Dad and I remembered it was on the recommended books - thread here on this forum. I bought it.

 

It's a great book! Almost like Jed McKenna of personal finance.

 

The Rat Race is madness and nonsense.

 

It's not really about making a lot of money, it's about freedom and better life.

 

There is two ways to go about money. One is The Rat Race, or working for money. This is what most of us do, and what most of us are taught by our parents etc. Working from paycheck to paycheck. It's kind of like the matrix of personal finance.

 

The other one is making money work for you, which is what the book is working toward.

 

Neither are "the right one" or "the wrong one", and I got a hunch neither is easier or harder than the other. The difference is more like sleeping vs. waking. And I think I'm starting to wake up!

 

There is the saying "get rich or die trying".

 

I like that, but I'd change it a bit, and say "liberate or die trying".

 

It doesn't really matter whether you succeed or not. What matters is that you try, and keep trying. Even if you keep trying until old age and the deathbed. The alternative is slavery, and a personal 'death'.

 

 

"A job is only a short-term solution to a long-term problem."

- Robert Kiyosaki

 

Edited August 6, 2023 by Blessed2

[Blessed2]

Now I feel oddly content. Like it's out of my system. Right after I posted the previous comment, I just felt done with it.

 

I'm tired of thinking about money and that's a great sign.