Ges
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Posts posted by Ges
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2 minutes ago, Jonas Long said:
Hierarchy is a staple of cults. That's how they get you to stay, the promise of reaching "tier 2" every cult, down the line.
Jordan Peterson understands the necessity and importance of hierarchy in nature and human society. It's inevitable, no matter how much you might dislike it. An adult will never be equal to a child, just as a monkey will never be equal to a spider. There are higher beings, and it would be wise to acknowledge this. Wisdom itself is a higher form of experience.
2 minutes ago, Jonas Long said:1 coin with 2 sides, is still 1 coin.
And this coin can never not have sides, it can't exist without those sides. The sides are literally all that makes the coin a coin.
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7 minutes ago, Jonas Long said:
So, 1 coin.
With 2 sides. Welcome to non-duality.
29 minutes ago, Jonas Long said:Oooh "special tier 2 people"...
Cult shit.
LMAO! 😂
It's a psychological thing, not possessed by any particular entity.
27 minutes ago, Jonas Long said:No, it is understood to never have existed. it doesn't disappear. Flying spaghetti monster doesn't "dissappear" when you realize you've imagined it. It never appeared except as a thought.
And thought exists, just not as a material object. It's a different form of experience, like smell and taste. It exists.
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2 minutes ago, Jonas Long said:
If it transcends duality, what does that say about duality?
Just so that we're on the same page: Transcendence.
QuoteTranscendence is the act of rising above something to a superior state. If you were at a concert where the rock star jumped into the audience, the concert (and audience) may have achieved a state of transcendence.
Transcendence comes from the Latin prefix trans-, meaning "beyond," and the word scandare, meaning "to climb." When you achieve transcendence, you have gone beyond ordinary limitations. The word is often used to describe a spiritual or religious state, or a condition of moving beyond physical needs and realities. One way to achieve transcendence spiritually might be to fast for a long time. If you have trouble letting go of material needs, then you will have a difficult time achieving transcendence.
QuoteDefinitions of transcendence
noun
the state of excelling or surpassing or going beyond usual limits
synonyms:superiority, transcendency
noun
a state of being or existence above and beyond the limits of material experience
synonyms:transcendency
So when duality is transcended, it doesn't magically disappear or go away. It just gets recontextualized into the bigger picture of oneness, which is otherwise known as non-duality. It's an enhanced version of duality so to speak because it takes context into consideration. With this recognition comes context-awareness, which is a special trait that only tier 2 people possess.
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@Phil I've already laid it out a couple of times. Feel free to ask if you feel there's unclarity in my communications.
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11 minutes ago, Jonas Long said:
Can you name an object or thing that can be isolated from all other things and exist on its own independently?
I can't.
See, the point you're making is that there's no duality without non-duality. And I'm not disagreeing with that at all. All I'm saying is that there's no non-duality without duality. You literally can't say non-duality without saying duality. That's the paradox. Non-duality both includes and transcends duality. It does not exclude it. The whole contains the parts, and the parts form the whole. Non-duality is just the first ever glimpse of the whole.
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8 hours ago, Joseph Maynor said:
I think religion and spirituality actually merge on some level. But it requires judgment which can't be outsourced -- It can't even be insourced. Both to get beyond any vehicle (form) and to be able to play with vehicles too is a very high state of consciousness in my opinion. You can see the good parts of almost every idea and that almost every idea has a bad part too. It's funny that way.
I agree in part, because I don't understand this entirely. I agree to what I understand. Can you elaborate? Particularly on out/insourcing judgment.
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34 minutes ago, Phil said:
If you talk it through
That's literally what I'm doing and you're avoiding. I keep engaging with you on every point, and you just keep responding very robotically, with denial and dogmas such as below. Seriously, at this point, Chat GPT is more human-like than you.
34 minutes ago, Phil said:Infinite can not know finite.
It can if it wants. Do you want?
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9 hours ago, Joseph Maynor said:
I've taken the position myself that the Infinite contains all the finite. It's two lenses that are both true. Another way I say this is there's a wobble or interplay between the Infinite vs./and finite duality. @Phil doesn't think the Infinite knows the finite. I don't agree with that position.
As I think about it, I think that the content of the paradigm also affects how hard it's going to be to break out of it. So yes, like you said complexity is one factor, which is more contextual. And now I'm adding the content itself. It matters what your beliefs allow and don't allow. When I was Muslim, Heaven and Hell were the thing that kept me sucked in the most. Once I stopped fearing hell/desiring heaven, leaving Islam became as easy as cake.
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8 hours ago, Phil said:
There’s no paradox.
Of course. And yet, there is.
In Zen, this is referred to as the gateless gate. It's the final step on the path. Once you pass through it, there's no going back, because now you understand the secret of creation.
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9 hours ago, Jonas Long said:
What is so hard about this? Non smoking means the lack of smoking, non duality means the lack of duality.
But notice, when you say non-smoking, you're implicitly admitting and innocently implying that smoking exists, albeit somewhere else, namely outside the paradigm. So just because the paradigm claims that it lacks something, it doesn't mean the thing doesn't exist. Though to be fair, non-duality doesn't actually claim that, it's just a common misunderstanding among most seekers/teachers. The answer is in the question, literally, not so to speak.
Please take a look at the Yin-Yang symbol. The entire circle is non-duality, and the intertwined black and white inside of it are duality. You and Phil apparently have a belief of lack of duality. But it's just that, a belief.
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40 minutes ago, Phil said:
Thought is not a duality. That would be secondness.
It is both oneness and secondness at the same time. You said earlier that: { “Thoughts” would be secondness, let alone a you which thinks / a thinker, or a finite entity which could be “inside” “something”. }.
Secondness and duality are synonyms.
40 minutes ago, Phil said:Nonduality does not include duality.
Please read that statement out loud, preferably in front of some kids. They'll help you get it.
40 minutes ago, Phil said:The very word ‘says’ not-duality.
That's the paradox. The very word "non-duality" includes and does not include the word "duality", both at the same time. You're just way too focused on the exclusion, while we are pointing to the inclusion without denying the exclusion.
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Just now, Phil said:
“Thoughts” would be secondness, let alone a you which thinks / a thinker, or a finite entity which could be “inside” “something”.
It's pretty easy to see that thought is a duality, but can you see that it's also non-duality at the same time?
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8 minutes ago, Phil said:
Calling nonduality a paradigm or sophistry is calling not two, something (second). The ‘first’ is the separate self of thought.
You think non-duality is not a thought, that's the paradigm you're locked in.
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6 minutes ago, Joseph Maynor said:
Higher-level paradigm lock is harder to notice.
Nobody likes destroying their castle of sand. Especially the more time and effort they've put in it. It's too much investment to throw away. It's way more comfortable the way it is now.
6 minutes ago, Joseph Maynor said:That's why it goes under most people's radar. The Masculine will find subtler and subtler ways to establish Himself at the top of the heap, the hierarchy. The Feminine will always be there to go get her deluded man. There's no end to this. It's Infinite.
And beautiful!
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@Phil I'm sorry man, but everything you've written is just more evidence of paradigm-lock.
@Joseph Maynor No harm done, man. I don't remember the details, but I'm sure I deserved it somehow, as I have a history of trouble and I can be difficult sometimes.
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2 hours ago, Joseph Maynor said:
You are brilliant and an original.
Thank you, Joseph. And ditto.
Can I pull a neo-advaita on you here, though? Just for fun and to showcase that we both get it and understand the underlying truth behind it.
I learn from you and other people. I also learn from everything that I interact with, whether animate or inanimate. In one sense, I have no originality whatsoever, because everything I have or demonstrate comes from the other, I don't invent nor create anything from thin air, it all comes to me on its own (even my own mind is not mine and I don't invent my own thoughts). Yet, in another sense, and at the same time, that's what originality actually is. It's the combination, acceptance, and integration of the other into the self. There's no original without the unoriginal. Leo has a blog article or video about this, I think it's called requisite variety, if you're interested or recall. At the same time, here's the caveat, unoriginality only serves to enhance originality. So paradoxically, the more we integrate of each other and the world, the more original we become. It's that poetic and magical. Literally. On the other hand, if we suppress or deny one or the other, it only diminishes our ability to express our own originality, which in turn reflects on others poorly as their originality will necessarily decrease because we're not as original as we can be. It can be horrible.
2 hours ago, Joseph Maynor said:(1) Emotional mastery and (2) relationship mastery are great and people who have these in abundance are admired and have a kind of superpower -- but you have to ask yourself too, at what price? What do they have to do to manifest these? Is it necessary to brainwash yourself out of yourself just to get these? I've been exploring this topic on here now for weeks.
Emotional Mastery means not losing your shit over stupid shit. Relationship Mastery means being able to hold together lots of perspectives in a network of relationship despite the bickering of all those perspectives. Just thought I would take a crack at defining these terms. So emotional mastery is not letting stupid things trigger you. Relationship mastery is not letting stupid people cause you to sever a relationship with them. The person who can relate to the most reality (including people) has the most relationship mastery. These terms can be somewhat defined and understood. Stupid is perspectival too, so keep that in mind. What I think is stupid someone else might see as smart. I'm not taking my perspective ahead of anyone else's.
Thank you for this, too. I like your definitions, they were right on time. I recently had a dispute with a "stupid, and kind of crazy" someone in real life, and I thought I might need to sever our relationship permanently. Reading this now, I'm reconsidering, and more on the side of patching things up, as both emotional and relationship mastery are ideals that I aspire to. I would say that I (have become after much work) am better at emotional mastery than at the relationship one, and by large. There's a lot of room for improvement for me in this area.
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12 hours ago, Someone here said:
He does not address my actual point in the slightest.
Because you're speaking from outside the paradigm. It flies over his head, it just doesn't make sense to him, like at all. Anyone at tier 2 can see this clearly without the shadow of a doubt, and anyone not paradigm-locked inside neo-advaita can at least glimpse it.
11 hours ago, Joseph Maynor said:Neo-Advaita is a game. And I know the silly rules. Like I said I think it has a place on the path but it leaves a lot out too, namely the problem of ego. If you don't think you have an ego, that'll come out in very sneaky and surprising ways. The ego will express itself, especially when it feels threatened. This no self stuff is a great recipe for shadow disaster when something breaks through and causes that disowned and repressed ego to trigger. I'm gonna lay off this topic now because there's nothing more for me to say here. @Phil one day we'll both laugh about this. Take care of the self.
Very good post.
I would say it's the typical case of repressive/religious upbringing and the traumas/shadows that come with it, except this time it's not Blue, but Green.
Much of this no-self stuff is just denial and self-hatred in disguise of love. I shouldn't love myself (the ego), so let's just pretend I (or it) don't exist to begin with. It's fueled by shame, that loving oneself is bad and sinful, it's just ridiculous. And by extension, others don't exist as well, and they don't deserve love either. Oh wait, we can make room for loving others, but only if they stop existing, those selfish idiots.
By the way, Phil does not have emotional mastery. Rather, he is neurotic, and probably has a couple of OCDs. You can see the passive aggression everywhere in his communications, and you can see it in his latest outbursts, no masks are ever sustainable. Not to say he's not good, he's great, but could be a lot greater.
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Just now, Joseph Maynor said:
Don't let him scare you away. He's his own trigger.
I just don't see any point in playing that game anymore. Like I said, Truth is the most absolutest of self-interest at all costs. I am absolutely sure of that and will simply practice what I preach.
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@Phil Yes, yes. As always. Just lol.
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Sooooooo, after all this time, I guess I've grown up a bit. I can see some of my previous blindspots and shortcomings, which no longer exist, which is great!
Anywho, I've been living life away from internet communities for the past year or so, and I plan to continue living this way. I guess just this one-off day, and I'll go offline again.
I love my life! Happy as fuck, and can't complain. Though, I'm not suggesting that this detox has anything to do with my current state per se, but just to state the facts.
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@Phil Sorry for derailing the thread. I'll be out soon.
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@Joseph Maynor Hey dude, missed you too.
I typed the letter "c" in my browser's search bar, and it auto-suggested this site. I went on and read some random stuff and noticed that my name was mentioned once or twice, so I thought I might drop in and say hi.
Not surprisingly, your insights are as sharp and delicate as ever, even when they fall on deaf ears. Just keep on doing your thing, man. You're brilliant!
Self absorbed
in Nonduality, Consciousness, Awakening, Enlightenment, Self-Recognition
Posted
I also received exactly the same but without any points. It say it's a pre-warning warning. I think Phil realized something.