Winter
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Posts
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Posts posted by Winter
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1 minute ago, Loop said:
I never once in our conversation said that thinking was bad.
Unnoticed thinking can cause a lot of pain,That isn’t good or bad.
Not implying you did, just giving an example 🙂
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1 minute ago, Loop said:
What is conceptualization?
Just a way to paint a picture. If you say "feeling is good, thinking is bad" you are painting a picture. Every sentence paints one.
5 minutes ago, Loop said:It really isn’t.
I think we agree on this friend 🙂
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6 minutes ago, Loop said:
Thinking is a knot,
Feeling Is Actual.
This way of conceptualizing it sounds like two, sounds like a knot.
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42 minutes ago, Loop said:
This is the self-referential thought.
Thought-knot.
Awareness is no thought and it's always there. Saying "you are" aware doesn't make it any less true as you are awareness.
There is no thought-knots, only thoughts. To think there is a knot in your thought is just another thought.
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2 hours ago, Loop said:
I have no idea, all that really matters is that Feeling is put before thinking so one doesn’t get tangled in thought-knots.NOO! There are no two. There is no battle between feeling and thinking. Nothing matters. There is NO ISSUE with thinking. The fact you can imagine issues is not an issue, because you are aware of what you are doing at all time.
But at the same time YESS, you are also correct. 😁
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27 minutes ago, Loop said:
Trauma is trapped pain in the body covered by thought, or conceptualization, sometimes so repressed it isn’t even noticed. A concept has multiple distinctions forming a plan or idea. Pain is a distinction waiting for Feeling to embrace it, as well as pleasure. Get too attached to one side and you forget/ repress the other.
Not looking to restart a debate cause honestly I have no doubt the way you are framing things perfectly works for you!
This idea that concepts are composed of multiple distinctions is kind of funny to me to be honest. If I bring words like "triangle, circle, person, hand, body, brick, red, metal, house, loneliness", which are concepts and which are not? Your explanation is not formal enough for me to be able to know which you would consider a concept and which you would consider a distinction. Seems like a lot to keep track of that, it's just simpler for me to equalize concept, notion, idea, distinction, duality. I never needed to have a difference between those in a practical scenario anyway.
I'm not a native speaker though, so I might not be the best resource for english. -
Just now, Phil said:
There’s no you.
Good. But if there was one, I hope he'd be ok.
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25 minutes ago, Phil said:
How effective was it?
You seem butthurt 😟
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Just now, Phil said:
If a tree falls in the woods and no one is there to hear it, does it make a sound?
Yes. Unless the tree is in a vacuum, there's no way for an object to move without displacing air, and by definition sound is air displacement. Doesn't mean the sound exists (specifically if you imply a notion of existence which is "inside consciousness"). But as far as "making" a sound goes, the physical process you are theorizing about does "make" a sound, from our definition of sound and from our definition of falling.
Saying things like "nothing exists out of consciousness" is fine too, if you decide to define existence in that specific way. You could ask instead "do sounds exist if they are not heard" to which the answer depends on your notion of existence.
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1 hour ago, Phil said:
What’s “mirror the vibe” mean?
Express what was felt reading this thread.
1 hour ago, Phil said:How exactly is sarcasm effective?
You judge 🙂
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Looking for reasons to practice or not practice is worrying about the correct or best way to live. If mediation is practised, it might become clear that there is no correct or best way to live. Yet it doesn't mean meditation is needed for that to become clear or that anything bad will happen if you don't meditate.
Any explication of meditation would imply two. There is no way to explain or justify meditation in a way that is totally honest. But its clear if one were to do meditation one would understand everything there is to understand about meditation.
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Just now, Loop said:
Nope, that is an assumption, there is just Feeling. There isn’t anyone experiencing anything.
The particle is the wave & the wave is the particle.There really isn’t either.
When identified as an observer this can easily be missed.
Then there is no such thing as discordance 🙂
Just now, Loop said:A lot of the words we use are filled with assumptions. Don’t get so attached to definitions, look.
Much thinking, much defining, trying to find the most precise definition/ concept of what no-concept is 😂
Love 🙏
This was a good conversation, thanks ☺️
You don't need to look far to find no-concept 😂 Good definitions are key to good communication though, it's silly to debate whether trauma is a concept when we don't agree on what a concept is 😁
Much love to you too.
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Just now, Blessed2 said:
Why did you not start this conversation with those words then? Why the sarcastic, judgemental tone?
I was only trying to mirror the vibe here and illustrate how it felt to read this thread. I think sarcasm can be an effective way to communicate things sometimes. I was not looking to explain anything, just make a quick point. But then we started a non duality war over it, for that, I plead guilty.
1 minute ago, Blessed2 said:Do you give yourself space to vent when you feel like it? Or do you rationalize and conceptualize it under the rug the way you're talking in this thread? That's why I said "who gives a shit?", cause judgement and shame often keeps us from expressing freely. I don't really give a crap whether my post about the weed was a "correct way to heal" or not, I just felt like doing it for whatever reason. Probably wouldn't post it now, cause introspection etc. followed.
I feel like you're sort of enabling here. Actualized forum used to be constant judgement, shaming, belittling etc. And when you pointed it out or got fed up with it, that was met with judgement, shaming, belittling too. Nothing is ever good enough for judgement anyway, so who gives a shit?
As I said I got no issue against venting. The only criticism I made is from going out of your way to look at what Leo is doing just to shit on him. I simply expressed my opinion about how I feel in regards to that. I don't care what you do with my opinion, that's up to you.
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Just now, Loop said:
Did I ever mention a who? There is just the feeling of discordance towards Guidance, then there is accordance with the discordance ☺️, then it isn’t discordance anymore.
That's already two! Whatever is being discordant with guidance is the "who". Or even the discordance itself.
Just now, Loop said:That there needs to be two is an assumption, based off believing this is a physical experience with subjects & objects.
No one is being guided anywhere, there is just Emotional Guidance, there isn’t even a here to be, that is still some sense of solidity.
No it's based off the word "listen" which is the language you use. Listen already has a meaning which requires the existence of 2. Guidance does too with the concept of being guided. Absolute infinity is kind of precise though. Must a matter of preference to be honest, you are free to use the words you want to describe no-concept 🙂
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Just now, Loop said:
What mind? There is only Feeling.
Honestly, the concept & projection of the mind is repression, hiding up in ‘mental space’ not waiting to feel Grace.
Not wanting to feel Guidance.
Who is hiding? I thought there was only feeling, but now there is the concept of someone who doesn't want guidance?
Just now, Loop said:There isn’t a single thing at all,
But that will never help you with the fall,
Down from mental space,
Both feet planted ends the race.
We are all in this together,So much so there is no one to show,
Nothing to connect with,
Endless Friendship.
There is no must,
It is already,
L I S T E N,
You are already guiding yourself.
Of course there was never both.
If we bump into a smack,I’ll ask you kindly not to wack,
As there is no difference between the two,
Never was a me & you.
Who needs to L I S T E N ? There's need to be two to have the action of listening. A listener and a "guidance". When all is one there is nothing to listen to and no need for a source of guidance either. You are already where you want to be, no need to be guided anywhere. 🙂
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2 minutes ago, Loop said:
Distinction is like the building blocks of concepts. You could say dualities is synonymous. I feel concepts are born out of there. There are really no distinction, not even between pain & pleasure, but you can notice that and still be in repression. Saying trauma is conceptual is essentially putting thinking first, & possibly bypassing/ repressing it.
It is emotional.
All pain is psychic pain.
Guidance has no distinction at all.I see well I make no distinction between concepts and distinctions personally. Sorry to hear this disagreement was only a difference in language. So you agree the trauma is a distinction and there is in reality no such thing as trauma other than the distinction the mind might make of it?
Do you also agree that You, Consciousness, God are all exactly the same as Guidance with no distinction or anything else separating them? e.g. There is no "you" separate from the guidance that must listen to it. Guidance is a fancy word to mean "not worrying about stuff".
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2 minutes ago, Loop said:
The concept of your life brings with it the concept of having been through locations & being at a location right now.
There really are no concepts, but there is generational trauma in the body we can feel right now, from apparent world wars and the like. Presence is the Body, nothing is separate.Pain isn’t a concept, it is a distinction.
I never said to worry about this, that is Guidance, listen to it.
I’m telling you I don’t conceptualized emotions, that is suffering. Emotions are to be felt, not chopped in to bits with the knifes.What is the difference between conception and distinction? When I said trauma is a concept I didn't think of that as different from duality, distinction, idea or any other word which mean distinction.
Is guidance also a concept or is this one a distinction? -
14 minutes ago, Loop said:
Certainly. But is it really just ‘your life?’ Where did you come from? How did you get here?
Call it whatever you want, my life, your life, the universe, consciousness, god, the experience. Just labels, I'm not implying the universe is owned by a human body in particular, as if its theirs.
Why assume I came from somewhere? Why assume the concept of "location" and the idea that things can be at different locations? Whichever and whoever experiences those concepts cannot be subject of those concepts.
14 minutes ago, Loop said:Projected. Some kind of pain will be around the area, the area will move around, it might already be manifested as a physical disease. To reverse the repression feel into it, ask what the feeling means to you, watch to see if something triggers it to contract as you are going through your day, & trust Feeling over your thoughts about what you think the pain is. Pain is by definition, what is being avoided, otherwise it would be pain anymore. Pain is guiding you to the repression. Alinement with discord.
Is it mandatory to have a concept of pain? Why can't I just vibe and chill instead of worrying about any of this?
14 minutes ago, Loop said:Fear is fear, worry is worry, cannot really be defined, but when you think about how to define them you ‘chop the process up’ and the seemless flow of Guidance is hindered in a sense.
I'm ok with my definitions but if I'm gonna talk to you about trauma I need to work with your definitions, cause they are certainly not the same as mine, given your last response.
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Just now, Loop said:
You are playing with knifes my friend. Careful, careful. Don’t slice yourself into bits.
Notice it was never separate in the first place. There is no falling apart. Don’t cut yourself up! 😶🌫️
It isn’t unreachable! It is in the Body Now.
All pain is psychic.
The Body stores trauma, generational, not just personal. Freedom cannot be enjoyed with the bypassing of trauma.
Worry is good, thinking it is bad is what brings stress.Why not? It's my life I get to choose how I live it and with how many fingers I want to have 😂
Where is it in the body right now?
What is worry if not "thinking something is bad" and being afraid of it? Feels like we're creating arbitrary definitions here. Worrying, being afraid of something, thinking something is gonna hurt you, thinking something is bad (for you). To me it's all the same thing but perhaps you have your own definitions we can work with?
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Just now, Loop said:
I don’t believe them, these aren’t ideas, expressing from the Heart already.
Love IS the Process.Bypassing trauma will manifest as physical illnesses, when it is truly psychic & spread through the nervous system, the more it is ignored the more painful it gets, until one has to repress it it & then believe it is physical.
Yikes, sounds like a scary thing to have to deal with. I'm feel sorry for you.
But why bother with this invisible, unreachable trouble called "trauma" though? Why not just live without worries and let the body fall apart at any rate it wants? Do you "need" to avoid physical illnesses and stay alive as long as possible?
Sounds like all this worrying would generate a lot of cortisol, which isn't all that good for your body... Sure conceptualizing yourself as "bypassing a trauma" would likely generate a lot of stress. You don't have to conceptualize any of that though, cause there is no such thing as trauma. You are free 🙂 -
Just now, Loop said:
Trauma isn’t a concept, that is bypassing, I’d be careful with that. Hate isn’t about leo, it is about alinement with Love.
Trauma is a concept, bypassing it is another 🙂 Let go of all those ideas and you are free, there's nothing holding you back from love. Love is exactly here and now, with no process or steps involved to reaching it. The idea of a body or the idea of a traumatized body are all ideas which you are not forced to believe.
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34 minutes ago, Mandy said:
Have to agree with you there. It would be nice to have a section of the forum that deletes itself every day or week for venting and expressing. The forum doesn't have a function like that, so we'd have to do it manually and a lot of great stuff would be lost. I think an even better suggestion is to make the threads and share what you DO want to share with friends and focus on here. That old, focus on what you want not what you don't want thing. 😁
Good point I totally agree with that. There is various layers at which this point applies, one of which being continuing to focus on Leo and what he does just to hate on him. I'm all for venting and expressing things that suck in your life. But seeking what you hate just to have something you hate on? Is that really processing the trauma you have with that thing? If at all it's giving it more importance and power over you, conceptualizing it as even more of a trauma.
Ironically this point also applies to my criticism of this thread but also to the criticism of my criticism. Unless arguing with me is what you want in life, we're all guilty of this.
28 minutes ago, Loop said:It is extremely difficult to focus on what you want when there is layers of trauma in your body, must be processed so one can switch around.
Trauma is a concept, I'd be careful of giving that concept too much power over your life. If someone is under the idea that they are traumatized by Leo they should have the space to process that idea here. But seeking new things to hate on Leo is not processing trauma.
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1 hour ago, Phil said:
“Leo is love too” is the manipulation.
At the same level as "this thread is love", to which this was a response of. If we're gonna judge Leo for what he says and evaluate whether it's love we can do the same for this thread.
If hating on someone is not discordance then you tell me what is. -
Just now, Blessed2 said:
There isn't any "shoulds/shouldn'ts". Everything is alright.
Do you notice that the way you came across in this thread was basically just "you shouldn't be like that, you should be like this"? 🤔
I mean yeah everything is alright, you are free to experience what you are doing and the effects of it. But I'm free to say shoulds too. If I see a kid playing a knife I'll be "hey you shouldn't do that", even if in theory there is no should and the kid could learn to not play with knifes by hurting himself.
I'm not saying I know better than you. My honest reaction to this thread is: "Hey that's messed up what's happening here. Constantly putting Leo back into your mind just to hate on him seems unhealthy." My goal is not to try to convince you to change, but just to let you know this is my honest reaction. What you do from this, whether you choose to introspect or not is up to you.
It also sucks if a significant portion of the forum's attention is used to hate on some guy. Doesn't make the forum looks good, doesn't make me want to share it with friends.
Actualized.org was SO discordant
in Emptying
Posted
Sure! Let's have that space but let's also call out counter productive actions that seek more of what Osho is doing right now, long after we have left. Doing that perpetuates the pain of the traumatized self and goes against the point of unwinding. Let's talk about how it affected us but let's not continue seeking hate.
What's a "where"?