The activity of thought is the problem

[Kevin]

So I was feeling some social anxiety and I realized that the problem was the thinking. People aren’t actually judging me and thinking bad things about me. It’s literally just the thinking. Thinking makes it seem like those insecurities are actual but it’s just the thoughts that feel bad. 
 

Feels kinda wild that this could be the case and a part of me still wants to try and figure out the thoughts instead of just dropping them.

[Faith]

38 minutes ago, Kevin said:

People aren’t actually judging me and thinking bad things about me

I agree, probably not!

 

38 minutes ago, Kevin said:

Thinking makes it seem like those insecurities are actual but it’s just the thoughts that feel bad. 

My take is that it's actually the attachment to thoughts that is the rub. You choose to believe or not believe the thoughts.  The problem is that you think you're the thinker.

 

43 minutes ago, Kevin said:

part of me still wants to try and figure out the thoughts instead of just dropping them.

 

That's the other "hook"...wanting to figure out the thoughts you didn't think. 

 

Notice when a thought arises, did you actually create it? Or do you attach to thought as if it's you, because of the identification with the mind.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Kevin]

2 hours ago, Faith said:

I agree, probably not!

 

My take is that it's actually the attachment to thoughts that is the rub. You choose to believe or not believe the thoughts.  The problem is that you think you're the thinker.

 

This makes sense. Like it’s not the thought itself because another might have the same thought and disregard it. So it’s something else besides just the thought.

 

Also I do believe I’m the thinker. Like I can look for a thinker and see that there isn’t one but I still feel like I’m there and I’m thinking. Then myself becomes the one who sees that there is no thinker. And that one can think about how there isn’t a thinker.

 

2 hours ago, Faith said:

 

That's the other "hook"...wanting to figure out the thoughts you didn't think. 

 

Yeah it’s tough. Sometimes I’ll feel really bad and it seems so convincing that I need to think my way out of it.

 

2 hours ago, Faith said:

Notice when a thought arises, did you actually create it? Or do you attach to thought as if it's you, because of the identification with the mind.

 

I don’t create my thoughts but I attach to thoughts. I don't know why I just do. I just spent like 10 minutes trying to figure out why I attach to thoughts but I honestly don’t know.

[Phil]

11 hours ago, Kevin said:

So I was feeling some social anxiety and I realized that the problem was the thinking. People aren’t actually judging me and thinking bad things about me. It’s literally just the thinking. Thinking makes it seem like those insecurities are actual but it’s just the thoughts that feel bad. 
 

Feels kinda wild that this could be the case and a part of me still wants to try and figure out the thoughts instead of just dropping them.

That is precisely the case. Those thoughts don’t resonate with you… God, love, infinity, pure ineffable goodness! (People is a thought!) 

Even if, so to speak, other people were thinking / focusing on, judgmental thoughts - wether about a you, or a country or a cloud - doesn’t matter - that is their business, their alignment & discord, their truth realization to be realized - not yours, per se. That is not your direct experience - that is “not your business” as Byron Katie says. 

 

Two cents….

Trade the conceptualization: “a part of me”… for the recognition of how that thoughts feels - doubt. 

In the sense - when you say mountain move! And do not doubt - the mountain does move!

 

There is no such thing as “the feeling that I am the thinker”. 

“The thinker” - is not anything “in” perception! “The thinker” is just another thought! A self referential belief that is false - and this is not ‘known’ / realized by more thoughts - but much more simply - by how you feel. 

 

“Myself” - is just another thought!!!

Where is myself “in” perception?

You = perception!

You are Being ‘This’. 

There isn’t actually anything to doubt! That’s what ‘the emotional guidance’ is “saying”. 

 

There is no “you” which attaches to thoughts… You Are The Actuality of what “thoughts” are. You are what’s appearing and disappearing, which we point to with terms like thoughts, emotions, perception. 

 

“I don’t create my thoughts”

”I do create my thoughts”. 

 

You’re being all thoughts in any and every case. 

 

Every “thought” is always - “just another thought”. 

 

Consider… this nonsense (non-resonating doubt!) egoic reaction to the recognition “it”, whatever “it” is - is  always just another thought! 

Notice the projection in “you’re vilifying thought”, “you’re demonizing thought”, “you’ve only realized no self”, “you’re not really awake”…….. notice…. Any and all of that is projection of - just more thoughts and judgment! See (feel) the doubt therein - and see (feel) straight through it. 

 

“Sometimes I feel really bad”…. No! YOU NEVER FEEL REALLY BAD !!!!

Some “thoughts” do not feel good to, the infinite eternal unconditional love - that you are!

 

There isn’t anything to “think your way out of” - there is only to recognize it is some thoughts, which don’t feel good, to you. 

 

There is no “you” which attaches to thoughts! The “thought attachment” ‘situation’ is believing the thoughts - that there is a you….

meanwhile…. Always always all ways - awareness is not a thing and is aware. 

There’s not that “you” which could “figure it out” because You are what’s appearing as - “thoughts”. 

 

You do create thoughts - by being “thoughts”. 

You do not create “thoughts” - because you are infinite goodness - and there truly is no such “thing”, as, “thoughts”! 

You = awareness = infinite = God = love = NOT KNOWING. 

 

Life is not happening to you - life is appearing for You! 

 

💝 🎁 

[Faith]

 @Kevin

To clarify, when I say "you"  I was referring to "you", as awareness, that is under the spell of maya that "believes" it's a person, because the "I am" identifies with the body/mind.

 

Awareness that believes in the arising thoughts, without question, as if it is a self/ego (which are more thoughts), although this self/ego is not ultimately real. It exists, because it's experienced, but it's not real.

 

Meditation and Self-inquiry can help with "seeing" that you (awareness) are the "seer" of thought, feeling, emotions, which aids in non-attachment of what is seen. Self-referential thoughts can be not only harmful, but down right torturous, if there's a belief they are yours.

 

There is no thinker, just thoughts arising and another thought taking ownership and doership of that thought. This can also be seen by the ultimate seer, you, awareness. 

 

Now, with that being said, it doesn't mean you can't be involved with life, enjoying your time here as a limited person. Just know who/what you really are, so there's no suffering. Suffering comes when you think this dream is real.

 

 

 

[Faith]

@Kevin Hi,  you might find this video helpful. Also, I did an edit to my above post. It may make better sense, since I added more detail...or not. 🤷‍♀️

 

 

[Kevin]

11 hours ago, Phil said:

That is precisely the case. Those thoughts don’t resonate with you… God, love, infinity, pure ineffable goodness! (People is a thought!) 

Even if, so to speak, other people were thinking / focusing on, judgmental thoughts - wether about a you, or a country or a cloud - doesn’t matter - that is their business, their alignment & discord, their truth realization to be realized - not yours, per se. That is not your direct experience - that is “not your business” as Byron Katie says. 

 

Two cents….

Trade the conceptualization: “a part of me”… for the recognition of how that thoughts feels - doubt. 

In the sense - when you say mountain move! And do not doubt - the mountain does move!

 

There is no such thing as “the feeling that I am the thinker”. 

“The thinker” - is not anything “in” perception! “The thinker” is just another thought! A self referential belief that is false - and this is not ‘known’ / realized by more thoughts - but much more simply - by how you feel. 

 

“Myself” - is just another thought!!!

Where is myself “in” perception?

You = perception!

You are Being ‘This’. 

There isn’t actually anything to doubt! That’s what ‘the emotional guidance’ is “saying”. 

 

There is no “you” which attaches to thoughts… You Are The Actuality of what “thoughts” are. You are what’s appearing and disappearing, which we point to with terms like thoughts, emotions, perception. 

 

“I don’t create my thoughts”

”I do create my thoughts”. 

 

You’re being all thoughts in any and every case. 

 

Every “thought” is always - “just another thought”. 

 

Consider… this nonsense (non-resonating doubt!) egoic reaction to the recognition “it”, whatever “it” is - is  always just another thought! 

Notice the projection in “you’re vilifying thought”, “you’re demonizing thought”, “you’ve only realized no self”, “you’re not really awake”…….. notice…. Any and all of that is projection of - just more thoughts and judgment! See (feel) the doubt therein - and see (feel) straight through it. 

 

“Sometimes I feel really bad”…. No! YOU NEVER FEEL REALLY BAD !!!!

Some “thoughts” do not feel good to, the infinite eternal unconditional love - that you are!

 

There isn’t anything to “think your way out of” - there is only to recognize it is some thoughts, which don’t feel good, to you. 

 

There is no “you” which attaches to thoughts! The “thought attachment” ‘situation’ is believing the thoughts - that there is a you….

meanwhile…. Always always all ways - awareness is not a thing and is aware. 

There’s not that “you” which could “figure it out” because You are what’s appearing as - “thoughts”. 

 

You do create thoughts - by being “thoughts”. 

You do not create “thoughts” - because you are infinite goodness - and there truly is no such “thing”, as, “thoughts”! 

You = awareness = infinite = God = love = NOT KNOWING. 

 

Life is not happening to you - life is appearing for You! 

 

💝 🎁 

thank you this is beautiful. Also a bit of a mindfuck.

🙏

[Kevin]

8 hours ago, Faith said:

 @Kevin

To clarify, when I say "you"  I was referring to "you", as awareness, that is under the spell of maya that "believes" it's a person, because the "I am" identifies with the body/mind.

 

Awareness that believes in the arising thoughts, without question, as if it is a self/ego (which are more thoughts), although this self/ego is not ultimately real. It exists, because it's experienced, but it's not real.

 

Meditation and Self-inquiry can help with "seeing" that you (awareness) are the "seer" of thought, feeling, emotions, which aids in non-attachment of what is seen. Self-referential thoughts can be not only harmful, but down right torturous, if there's a belief they are yours.

 

There is no thinker, just thoughts arising and another thought taking ownership and doership of that thought. This can also be seen by the ultimate seer, you, awareness. 

 

Now, with that being said, it doesn't mean you can't be involved with life, enjoying your time here as a limited person. Just know who/what you really are, so there's no suffering. Suffering comes when you think this dream is real.

 

 

 

I believe that I can see this intermittently. I can see that I’m not a person some of the time but then other times I seem to caught up in being someone. Like right now for example that part above is the story of me being a person some of the time.

[Faith]

4 hours ago, Kevin said:

I believe that I can see this intermittently. I can see that I’m not a person some of the time but then other times I seem to caught up in being someone. Like right now for example that part above is the story of me being a person some of the time.

 

So, that's more then many can "see". Most walk around "completely" identified at all times with the body/mind.

 

To have the seeing come and go is progress. A teacher of Vedanta coined this the firefly stage. To be honest, I've flickered on and off for about 13 years now, but more on, then off, in the past year I'd say. 

 

The point isn't to always be saying "I'm awareness" to yourself, but to always know this when needed. Like you dont walk around always saying "I'm Kevin" to yourself, but if asked your name you know it without thinking.

 

So, yes, be involved with life, work and relationships (you dont have a choice really), hopefully you won't fall back to sleep, so to speak...but, if you do, in time you'll flicker back on, at some point. Until maybe one day the flickering is done.