Continued Immersion in Thought (Help)

[Orb]

Something that's been troubling throughout the path is that no matter how much Fullness/Wholeness is unveiled, the "getting lost in thoughts" still happens.

 

It starts off as a subtle contraction, then an inclination to focus on thoughts and watch them for entertainment. 

 

Even during meditation it happens, it goes from Feeling unveiled to daydreaming within a couple minutes. 

 

But then this is also a thought too, so.....

 

Even when Wholeness is felt intensely thoughts still arise in the background like "this is Wholeness, oh wow its so full, I am, I am fullness" and then spiritual narratives arise or images of Orb come up and thoughts about Orb come up. 

 

It creates a chicken and egg situation. Do the thoughts create the hallucination that I am Wholeness, or the Wholeness already IS and then thoughts arise about it? 

 

Sometimes this non dual stuff feels like religion, I've read about advaita vedanta and zen Buddhism, what if I'm repeating a script and then overlaying that on my own experience? Aaaaaaah I'm projecting!! Maybe I'm not projecting, idk.

 

I see this is the case for almost everyone, what if my head is up my ass? 

Edited February 15 by Orb

[Orb]

Maybe this is overthinking? 

 

Idk. 

 

I know my calling, it is to share the Non Dual message with people. 

 

But I don't want to be a preacher who knows the script yet hasn't tasted the truth. 

 

Or maybe I am really tasting wholeness all the time and thoughts are arising to instill doubt? 

Edited February 15 by Orb

[Orb]

Is this where the emotional scale comes in handy? 

 

Definitely feeling doubt, it's because of the thoughts arising. The "what if I'm up my own ass?" Thoughts feel doubty.

[Orb]

I wish there were perfect people. 

 

From every "teacher" I've seen there's always something that doesn't fully click or they end up having problems in secret or something idk. 

 

I hear about just Goodness and being kind to all people and no judgements arising anymore or anything but it seems like preachy nonsense. Like the type of stuff people repeat because they read it in all the spiritual books but no one actually lives it. But again, I don't know. 

 

It's been a while since I've experienced a doubt-attack.

 

Sorry guys, I'm a mess!!

[Phil]

Time & people are thoughts. 

[Orb]

Just now, Phil said:

Time & people are thoughts. 

 

[Mandy]

There is no path. There is no progression. There isn't anyone who has got it.

 

How's that feel? Disappointing AF? 

 

THAT is the best thing ever. DISSAPPOINTMENT IS AWESOME.  Denying it sucks. Deny the belief in the thoughts, not the emotion, the feeling. 

[Phil]

😅

 

Every thing described without exception, including the thoughts describing, and including every self referential thought, is  / is of the whole / wholeness - already. 

Is the wholeness. Is you / Oneself. 

 

There isn’t a separate self, such as a person or human, which realizes nonduality, enlightenment, etc. That would be a second (which realizes something). 

Nonduality, enlightenment, etc… is that there is already no separation, and so no person, no people, no humans, etc, etc. 

 

Nothing is hidden. As in… reality experientially speaking is exactly as appears.

 

Thoughts might appear about there being stuff “before you were born”… like grandparents, parents, sexy time, conception, and then you were born. That would be a thought story. The reason there’s no recollection of that happening, is because it didn’t. And even if there was a recollection… “that’s” This too. 

 

[Orb]

5 minutes ago, Mandy said:

There is no path. There is no progression. There isn't anyone who has got it.

 

How's that feel? Disappointing AF? 

 

THAT is the best thing ever. DISSAPPOINTMENT IN MY FAVORITE THING. 

I don't want to be full of it, that's all. 

 

There's no path no progression no stages or growth. 

 

Then what the hell would I be offering? I'm talking about my calling to guide people, what am I guiding them towards? 

 

There's no actual thing called truth. Maybe well being is what I'd guide them to. 

 

Self realization is weird in that it doesn't do anything for your life. Yet it changes everything. Yet it has no utility at all. 

Edited February 15 by Orb

[Phil]

This is pure freedom. Perfection. Appearing as if there is time, consistency, things, people, etc. Perfection! 

How unthinkably amazing are you!? 🤯 

 

 

 

[Mandy]

2 minutes ago, Orb said:

Then what the hell would I be offering? I'm talking about my calling to guide people, what am I guiding them towards? 

You don't have a calling or any obligation. It's just love. Imagine if your calling was to change people that don't want to change, how awful would that be? Just love em' and feel that love, that's enough. The provider is the beneficiary. 

 

 

[Orb]

39 minutes ago, Mandy said:

You don't have a calling or any obligation. It's just love. Imagine if your calling was to change people that don't want to change, how awful would that be? Just love em' and feel that love, that's enough. The provider is the beneficiary. 

 

 

I think there is a calling though. Like a "role" you wanna play in creation. I think I'm going through that, I've always wanted to ease the suffering of people since I was younger. 

[Mandy]

11 minutes ago, Orb said:

I think there is a calling though. Like a "role" you wanna play in creation. I think I'm going through that, I've always wanted to ease the suffering of people since I was younger. 

Well you have never been younger than this and there aren't people. WHAT A DISSAPPOINTMENT. HALLELUYAH THANK YOU, JESUS. Or Judas. Or no one. More disappointment. YAY!

[Orb]

46 minutes ago, Phil said:

This is pure freedom. Perfection. Appearing as if there is time, consistency, things, people, etc. Perfection! 

How unthinkably amazing are you!? 🤯 

I think I gotta trust the Universe fully. It's been a while since this thought pattern has come up. 

 

No more "i" and no more "gotta trust the universe fully". This is nonsense

[Enlightened Cat]

What kind of desire is the thought creating?

How does that desire feel, and why?

Looking at your current experience, is the desire fulfilled or unfulfilled? 

[Orb]

51 minutes ago, Mandy said:

Well you have never been younger than this and there aren't people. WHAT A DISSAPPOINTMENT. HALLELUYAH THANK YOU, JESUS. Or Judas. Or no one. More disappointment. YAY!

I think I had too much coffee.....

 

I'm chilling out.

[Orb]

9 minutes ago, Enlightened Cat said:

What kind of desire is the thought creating?

How does that desire feel, and why?

Looking at your current experience, is the desire fulfilled or unfulfilled? 

Well many desires/wants like saving up X amount of money, planning dates with my gf, job stuff,etc. 

 

Some of them have been fulfilled yea.

[Phil]

If it’s clarifying…

2 hours ago, Orb said:

Something that's been troubling throughout the path is that no matter how much Fullness/Wholeness is unveiled, the "getting lost in thoughts" still happens.

Let the phrase “in thoughts” go. I get it, it’s not meant literal. Still, let that go. You are aware as awareness, of thoughts, and are never ‘in’ thoughts. 

It might be fruitful to actually attempt to ‘get in’ thoughts. Like, give it everything you got, try your best, to see the futility. 

 

2 hours ago, Orb said:

 

It starts off as a subtle contraction, then an inclination to focus on thoughts and watch them for entertainment. 

No problem! Be entertained! Have a laugh at the absurdity of it all! 

 

2 hours ago, Orb said:

 

Even during meditation it happens, it goes from Feeling unveiled to daydreaming within a couple minutes. 

No problem! Enjoy the day dreaming, fantasize about what you want! 

 

2 hours ago, Orb said:

 

But then this is also a thought too, so.....

 

Even when Wholeness is felt

Wholeness is feeling, wholeness = feeling, synonymous.

That wholeness is felt implies a separate self which is feeling (something separate) ‘the’ wholeness. 

2 hours ago, Orb said:

 

intensely thoughts still arise in the background like "this is Wholeness, oh wow its so full, I am, I am fullness" and then spiritual narratives arise or images of Orb come up and thoughts about Orb come up. 

Attitude is everything. Thoughts come up - so what! 

 

2 hours ago, Orb said:

 

It creates a chicken and egg situation. Do the thoughts create the hallucination that I am Wholeness, or

‘Hallucination’ seems a bit strong. Generally speaking hallucination is when suppressed emotion ‘bends’ or ‘warps’ perception. 

 

2 hours ago, Orb said:

the Wholeness already IS and then thoughts arise about it? 

This isn’t meant ‘corrective ly’, just a pointing as always…. “The” wholeness implies “I’m separate of wholeness, experiencing the wholeness”. 

Yes, thoughts arise. 

Wholeness = awareness though. Thoughts aren’t per se about wholeness… wholeness is aware of thoughts. No thoughts about wholeness can be true because wholeness is appearing as the thoughts. 

 

2 hours ago, Orb said:

 

Sometimes this non dual stuff feels like religion, I've read about advaita vedanta and zen Buddhism, what if I'm repeating a script and then overlaying that on my own experience? Aaaaaaah I'm projecting!! Maybe I'm not projecting, idk.

Nondual means not two. There’s no ‘nondual stuff’. 

“Feels like religion” might be more…. There is the thought, and there is how that thought feels. 

 

If there is an experience of repeating thoughts… there is an experience of a self referential thought loop. In short, a belief. 

The way to end a thought loop is to acknowledge the underlying emotion felt. 

To ‘answer the phone’. 

 

The projection aspect is… the thought ‘this nondual stuff feels like’’’…. When really, there is how that thought feels. Projection isn’t ’some bad thing’, or ‘someone doing something wrong’. it’s pure innocence indicative of the unavaoidable overlooking of the true nature by being. 

 

2 hours ago, Orb said:

 

I see this is the case for almost everyone, what if my head is up my ass? 

That’s presumed. Just like how with the emotional scale, “getting to contentment” is always letting a discordant thought or interpretation go by expressing it…. One can always “get to” contentment by genuinely acknowledging - I don’t actually know that. 

[Orb]

I think I experienced high stress from too much caffeine and now I'm settling down. 

 

I freaked out over nothing lol.

[Phil]

3 minutes ago, Orb said:

I freaked out over nothing lol

The separate self of thought is that sneaky. In accordance with that thought - you’re in linear time. But you’re present only, aware of that & any other thought. 

 

Plus there’s sort of a ‘beating up on yourself’, as if you actually did that. Self-love! Self-compassion! Self-sooth! 🤍

Not like it’s some big deal or anything, but it kinda adds up, like a weight being carried.